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Re:Zero Od CM type 1 shenanigans

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This is a very straightforward CRT, from our wiki standards of cm type 1
  1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
On that note, this is already accepted on our Spirit Physiology Page:

From Olbart's feat of manipulating the od to manipulate the physical appearance of the target itself, meaning the Od has precedence over the physical manifestation

Age Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, and Mind Manipulation (By meddling with the Od of his target, he can reduce them back into a younger body. This reduces the target's deduction skills and overall intellectual capabilities over time, reflecting their sudden rejuvenation in both body and mind. The soul is the very root of one's self, the Od, and damage to the soul, also damages the mind, as the mental has been equated to the spiritual
——An abominable technique left behind by the Vicious Old Man, Olbart Dunkelkenn.

By meddling with the Od of others, the Shinobi’s secret infantilization technique could remarkably reverse the growth of one’s body.

All living beings were naught more than containers for that which came into existence from nothingness, the Od. Depending on the shape of the Od, the size and form of the container would vary accordingly.

Therefore, all living creatures would don different appearances, and establish themselves as unique life forms.

If this theory was correct, that the body only served as a container for the Od, then by altering the shape of one’s Od, the form of its container could be altered freely.

By compressing one’s Od, then the body, serving as the container, could also be shrunk
——

–Volume 31, Chapter 2
Giving a brief answer to Subaru’s hesitant question, Olbart’s outstretched hand gently touched Subaru’s solar plexus.

Abel had conjectured that Olbart’s “infantilization” technique interfered with the Od, and perhaps that Od resided somewhere around the heart.

At the same time, a memory came back to Subaru’s mind. The previous day, he had indeed received a painless blow from Olbart as he fled from the keep right beneath where he was currently standing.

Subaru’s “infantilization” had occurred, with the interference of his Od as a trigger
.

–Volume 29, Chapter 8
Olbart: “But, it’s amusin’ that the actual result and the effects deviate so much, ya know. I was sure they’d just shrink someone, ya know, but it goes as far as ta completely restore the brain ta its youthful state.”

Olbart: “Unfortunately, I really don’t understand why either. Well, guess it’s ‘cause the Od’s forcibly tampered with. Just as yer body shrinks ta fit yer Od, yer mind’d prolly shrink ta fit yer Od as well, yeah?


–Volume 31, Chapter 2
There are also the Insect tribe which change their physical manifestation and become buglike after merging themselves with insects:
The Insect Cage Clan was a minority group that existed only in Vollachia, a tribe that included a wide variety of demi-humans.

From a young age, members of the clan ingested bugs with special powers, adopting the qualities of those creatures over time. They shared their Od, the wellspring of all life, with the insects, combining their very souls in order to share their bodies and gain the insects’ power.

This was what led to their monstrous external appearance.
When the people of this clan unleashed the power of the insects, they themselves transformed into something very much like the bugs.

–EX 4, Diplomacy by Bloodshed, Section 14
Names are established as being part of the Od, and the consumption or erasure of a name by the authority of gluttony, rewrites causality to reflect the target as having never existed. This is demonstrated through effects such as letters written by the individual becoming blank and personal belongings disappearing from history itself
Od contains the Name and Memories. When the name is vanquished, the person is erased across all of history (with the world being rewritten as though they were never there) and wiped from everyone's minds. And such is just a singular aspect derived from the Od.


Od is mana, soul, mind, a power that defines an individual's existence in the world, contains the destiny, elemental character, memories/names (as we know when Ley steals the name of a person, the entire history is rewritten so that the person never existed, such as the note written by Rem dissappearing from the world and her room being completely empty with all of her belongings dissappearing from the world), and life force


Julius: "The phenomenon itself is exceedingly simple. Everything comprising the caster's soul– their memories, experiences, and most likely, elemental character and destiny– are seared onto the soul of another person."

–Volume 9, Chapter 1
The Memories eaten by Gluttony did not remain extant within the person concerned, the Names eaten by Gluttony did not remain extant within other people. That was because the Authority tore them off from the soul, which defined one’s existence in the world.

The proper cleansing of the soul by Od Lagna, which was practiced in the Hall of Memories―― acting as its agent of its own accord, the Authority of Gluttony would usurp it in stealth.

Therefore, the Memories and Names snavelled by Gluttony did not remain present within anyone.


Restrictively, though there had been ones who had only Memories or only Names stolen away, respective negative effects got applied.

If the Memories were stolen then said person, if the Name was stolen then other people, could no longer remember the person concerned. That could not be altered as long as the disposition of the soul remained within the protection of Od Lagna.

Yet, Natsuki Subaru did remember.

Did remember the ingredient, the soul which had been rendered naked, having Memories and Name both stolen.


–Volume 25, Chapter 3

――That what was termed as Synesthesia, operated via the Ods of two differing individuals being connected.

What was termed as the Od, was the source of power existing in the depths of a human being―― it could also be synonymous for the soul.

Though on instances it was also used in place of Mana as power for utilizing magic, originally, the Od was the pure property itself that made a human, human.

The consequence of having a domain that could not be trespassed by anyone, linking those born of the same womb mutually, perhaps resulted in Synesthesia, so propounded theory.

In the end, it came to be determined as folklore, and was not something that had been proven.

However, since it had been left in the Forbidden Library, it surely was not some phony spiel either. Above all else, Ram personally had taken a liking to that theory.

To have one’s own self and someone else be connected together by birth, was a lovely thing.

–Volume 25, Chapter 7
Soul aflame, life fading to ash, his very destiny was on the cusp of its terminus.

All were engulfed in the blaze, and as Rowan’s self was blurring into the realm after death, he entered into a domain untread by living and undead both―― the interval between life and death, the point that ought to be called the beyond.

That was tantamount to uncovering the very nature, the true essence, of life and the soul.

A few more seconds, real as they might be, the final significance of Rowan Segmunt’s existence would overflow.

–Arc 8, Chapter 64

The Od is a world in and of itself, with not even the authority of gluttony being able to interfere with Anastasia when she goes inside her's

“Anastasia”: “Having ceded the body over to me, and temporarily lying dormant in your Od, you are in a state wherein you will not receive any interference from the outside world―― Because the Od, is a world of a certain kind of peculiarity.”

And by her own volition, she had secluded herself away in that place.

The reason being obvious―― Should she come outside, she would incur the effects. The abhorrent Authority of the Sin Archbishop of Gluttony, she would incur its effects.

She would forget what she wished to never forget, relinquish what she wished to never relinquish.

Anastasia Hoshin would forget Julius Juukulius.

–Volume 25, Chapter 6


From the scans above, the Od is consistently treated as the underlying essence that determines the form and nature of living beings, while the body merely acts as a vessel that conforms to it. Altering the Od directly changes the corresponding physical manifestation, as shown through Olbart’s infantilization, where tampering with the Od reshapes the body and even the mind itself to match it. The same principle is seen with the Insect Cage Clan, whose bodies transform into insect-like forms after merging their Od with insects, and with Petelgeuse’s vessels gradually taking on his appearance over time.


This is further reinforced by Spirits, whose true existence is explicitly their Od rather than their manifested bodies, which can be destroyed and recreated independently.

Thus, In every shown case, the physical form is subordinate to and shaped by the Od itself, establishing the latter as the defining essence of existence rather than a byproduct of the body.

As such, the Od fulfills the standards for Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, as it exists as an incorporeal, existence-defining essence that independently governs and determines physical manifestation.

Additions:
Od gets Type 1 CM
Spirit Physiology page gets updated
Characters who can manipulate souls or mind get CM type 1 manipulation
Characters who resist soul or mind manipulation get resistance to CM type 1 manipulation:


Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
 
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Uh, concepts don't have to be universal to be type 1, that was something settled long ago.
"Universal in AoE" means that they don't need to extend over a universal distance, but universal as a quality is still necessary.

And in the CM type 1 section it is also said
1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.
Using the example of a circle, if we replace "circle" with "Od," would altering the Od change the entire reality in which the Od participates? The answer is no; it only affects a specific individual, not all individuals who possess an Od.
 
I'm not well-versed in concept stuff. I just know that the Od is the soul and core of a life-form, and it defines the vessel. But I will note that Sphinx says that the vessel mutates to match the soul, and the converse is true as well (Arc 8 Chapter 64 "Parent and Child of the Empire"), although we never get an example of a soul changing to match its vessel, only vessels changing to match souls (Petelgeuse, Omega, Subaru, Medium, Aldebaran, Sphinx, Cecilus).

Some more recent Od stuff.
“Stop laughing!” Palmyra yelled. “You better be ready to take off your disguise and brawl it out if the situation calls for it.”

“That isn’t something I can do so easily, you know?” Omega said. “Souls have a propensity to revert back to their original shape. It takes quite an effort just to make some changes on the surface.” —Witch's After Tea Party / One Wild Night After
Subaru: [Which reminds me, I never thought about it… but are those who have passed on cremated here as well? Or are they given burials?]

Beatrice: [Cremation is the standard, I suppose. Once a living creature loses its life, the soul… the Od from its body falls out. It is unbearable to watch a body, bereft of its Od, slowly crumbling and losing its form, in fact. So it is done before that can happen, signifying to the body, the same as the Od, that it has fulfilled its duty, I suppose.]

Subaru: [I see, so it’s done on account of a being’s structure, not as a countermeasure to the spread of disease or anything like that.]

Thanks to Beatrice’s instantaneous reply to his doubt, he was able to harmonize with this arrangement as well.

That explained why, during the Great Disaster that had transpired in Vollachia, the legions of resurrected zombies were not in incomplete conditions, with rotten bodies and disjoined limbs. In their case, the shapes of their souls utilized to resurrect them were used as the basis, and their bodies were molded into form with clods of earth.

Which was why those zombies had been resurrected in the present age, with their forms intact as they were during their lifetime. —Arc 10, Chapter 8, "The Consequences of a Choice"

I think I just oppose characters being given abilities merely for possessing Od.
 
I'm not well-versed in concept stuff. I just know that the Od is the soul and core of a life-form, and it defines the vessel. But I will note that Sphinx says that the vessel mutates to match the soul, and the converse is true as well (Arc 8 Chapter 64 "Parent and Child of the Empire"), although we never get an example of a soul changing to match its vessel, only vessels changing to match souls (Petelgeuse, Omega, Subaru, Medium, Aldebaran, Sphinx, Cecilus).

Some more recent Od stuff.



I think I just oppose characters being given abilities merely for possessing Od.
This would still mean that the characters would have some physiological ability, like the AE type 1, due to their souls/ODs existing as an abstract aspect.
 
The wiki does a bad job at explaining the difference in useage of the word “universal” i had a talk with my friend offsite about this yesterday funny enough
One of the biggest problems with Wiki right now is that we can interpret many skills however we want due to a lack of understanding of the context of the words used.
 
If each living being has its own Od, that would be CM type 3, not type 1. The "universal" factor does not exist in any of the evidence, and altering the Od is only affecting the particular reality of each individual.
Not really, that would remove CM1 from a lot of other series, this itself isn't particularly problematic
 
Thus, In every shown case, the physical form is subordinate to and shaped by the Od itself, establishing the latter as the defining essence of existence rather than a byproduct of the body.
As such, the Od fulfills the standards for Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, as it exists as an incorporeal, existence-defining essence that independently governs and determines physical manifestation.
The evidence you have presented here shows that Od is a fundamental essence that shapes physicality and governs it, that's true but type-1 or Universals requires evidence of their independent nature as in you need to prove that said particular (od) is unaffected by any and all alterations to everything that participates in the concept of "Od" as in even if "physicality" ceases to exist or gets altered Od will exist/remain unaltered.
Sphinx says that the vessel mutates to match the soul, and the converse is true as well (Arc 8 Chapter 64 "Parent and Child of the Empire"), although we never get an example of a soul changing to match its vessel, only vessels changing to match souls (Petelgeuse, Omega, Subaru, Medium, Aldebaran, Sphinx, Cecilus).
If this is true then I am against CM-1 but I can see CM-3
Anyways great job with the CRT.
 
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The evidence you have presented here shows that Od is a fundamental essence that shapes physicality and governs it, that's true but type-1 or Universals requires evidence of their independent nature as in you need to prove that said particular (od) is unaffected by any and all alterations to everything that participates in the concept of "Od" as in even if "physicality" ceases to exist or gets altered Od will exist/remain unaltered.
If this is true then I am against CM-1 but I can see CM-3

Anyways great job with the CRT.
Thank you!

As for the Sphinx statement, I do think it is an outlier. It is a single statement without supporting feats, as Zab mentioned, whereas there are multiple direct statements and demonstrations supporting the opposite interpretation. On top of that, the entirety of the accepted Spirit Physiology already aligns with CM Type 1, so the overall evidence heavily supports that conclusion instead.

As stated in the OP:
 
As for the Sphinx statement, I do think it is an outlier. It is a single statement without supporting feats, as Zab mentioned, whereas there are multiple direct statements and demonstrations supporting the opposite interpretation. On top of that, the entirety of the accepted Spirit Physiology already aligns with CM Type 1, so the overall evidence heavily supports that conclusion instead.
Well that's not how an outlier works,
An outlier broadly speaking is
a person, thing, or fact that is very different from other people, things, or facts, so that it cannot be used to draw general conclusions
It's typically used in statistics
a data point that differs significantly from the rest of the observations in a dataset
To simplify something is considered as an outlier if it gets contradicted by the general consensus as in if a character has consistent MHS speed feats (like 10+) but one FTL feat then that FTL feat is deemed contradictory in comparison to the MHS feats which are more consistent. However the viewpoints here aren't contradictory that is to say that
Od can shape physicality and physicality can still have an affect on Od in some meaningful way.
On top of that, the entirety of the accepted Spirit Physiology already aligns with CM Type 1, so the overall evidence heavily supports that conclusion instead.
Now this, I thought of this as well so maybe we can split it ?
Spirits would get CM-1 and others won't.
That seems to be the best compromise.
So essentially, I disagree with everyone's Od being CM-1 but I am fine with spirits having it, in a similar fashion anyone that manipulates soul normally won't have it but people that can manipulate the soul of spirits can have it.
Again this is going off of the wiki's standards. If we are actually talking about Universals then yea tough luck but that goes for most pages that have CM-1
----
 
Yeah Spirits share a soul-vessel relationship still despite having no tangible body to contain their Od. Sphinx speaks on that, and some further thoughts on her alterations to souls causing alterations to bodies.
―As mentioned previously, by nature, the vessel and the soul were inseparable characteristics of life.

Even intangible entities like Spirits were no exception to this. The presence or absence of a tangible body was not what mattered, but rather, the vessel that formed the receptacle within which the soul would reside.

To say that they were incongruous, would also imply that such a life would be in an unnatural state. Hence, within the inseparable soul and vessel, there would be a force at work that would attempt to correct this unnatural incongruity.

Certainly, no matter what corrective forces were at work, cases where a vessel would mutate to match its soul were rare.

Things like the techniques employed by the shinobi that altered the soul and changed the form of the vessel to match, and binding curses of reincarnation that required multiple lives as a sacrifice were rare examples of this; however, the former required talent in the technique of molding the soul and the vessel into the appropriate form, while the latter required a strong connection between the caster and the numerous sacrifices.

Both of these were conditions that Sphinx could not meet, thus she was forced to abandon them as possibilities after considering their feasibility in order to achieve her desire. —Arc 8, Chapter 65, "Starfall Upon the Imperial Capital"
Whether the Sacrament of the Immortal King could be modified to establish a connection with the Stone, the Great Spirit of Vollachia, enabling the actualization of an undead army; whether the artificially-created Sphinx would be recognized as a singular soul and be included as a target for resurrection as an undead; and whether something capable of inducing a transformation of the soul that Sphinx had been unable to achieve on her own would emerge; all of these had been uncertain.

Sphinx: [However…]

The revival of the undead through the recreation of the Sacrament of the Immortal King had been successful, and Sphinx’s plan to resurrect herself as an undead had also gone smoothly. Furthermore, those who had received an alteration to their souls, such as Lamia Godwin and the Giant Eye, Izmail, had also appeared, henceforth laying the foundation that Sphinx had required.

And then―,

Sphinx: [To think that the final push needed was the flame of the Yang Sword, how very ironic.]

Priscilla: [――――]

Sphinx: [If things had continued as they were, I would undoubtedly have been annihilated. That predicament, however, became the impetus for me to conduct countless analyses in the end.]

Priscilla: [―No, that is incorrect.]

Sphinx: [Incorrect?]

At the denial of the fact that she had narrowly escaped the crisis of her soul being incinerated, Sphinx tilted her head.

In contrast to when she had been the incomplete vessel of the Witch of Greed, the height from which she gazed upon her differed. Her face, neck, and exposed skin were no longer the pallid hue bereft of complexion, and no longer were her eyes the gold upon black of the undead, but rather black irises had been reproduced.

Nevertheless, it was certain that Sphinx was still an undead.

The successful reproduction of a soul in a state of being exceedingly indistinguishable from the living had a significant impact upon its outward appearance. The very fact that she had actualized that served as proof of the validity of Sphinx’s theory.

Sphinx: [About what am I mistaken, then? Explanation: Required.]

Priscilla: [Do not use lifeless words such as “countless analyses” to describe what you have brought about. Your life was on the brink of burning to naught, so with disgraceful earnestness you strove to survive.] —Arc 8, Chapter 65, "Starfall Upon the Imperial Capital"
 
Yeah Spirits share a soul-vessel relationship still despite having no tangible body to contain their Od. Sphinx speaks on that, and some further thoughts on her alterations to souls causing alterations to bodies.
Hmm I was mostly thinking of alterations of body that affects the soul, if there's none then I can maybe see CM-1, this as far as I can tell is mostly about how the physical body needs to be compatible with the soul for the soul to inhabit said body rather than a strict "Soul is the Concept of physicality" so any body is fine. It appears they are intertwined to some extent so I would favour CM-3 over CM-1 here just to err on the side of caution.
 
"Universal in AoE" means that they don't need to extend over a universal distance, but universal as a quality is still necessary.

And in the CM type 1 section it is also said

Using the example of a circle, if we replace "circle" with "Od," would altering the Od change the entire reality in which the Od participates? The answer is no; it only affects a specific individual, not all individuals who possess an Od.
You're just contradicting yourself as you're accepting that the concept doesn't need universal range yet demand for it to affect an entire reality (the same thing) as to qualify as a type 1 concept. Your argument only works if we go with Od being something only manipulable in a universal scale, which the verse evidently confirms as not the case, and it's not an anti-feat as much other verses with individualist type 1 concepts (souls in DMC, hearts in KH) are a thing, so if anything I'd have to wonder from where you're pulling this patent double standard that at this point would require a separate site-wide CRT to sort out, as this clearly isn't the status quo to begin with.
 
I don't really have a strong opinion on the type of concept manipulation but I do think if this is indexed it should be indexed as limited and possibly also non-combat applicable? I'm not really sure how this would ever factor into a fight.
 
Hmm I was mostly thinking of alterations of body that affects the soul, if there's none then I can maybe see CM-1, this as far as I can tell is mostly about how the physical body needs to be compatible with the soul for the soul to inhabit said body rather than a strict "Soul is the Concept of physicality" so any body is fine. It appears they are intertwined to some extent so I would favour CM-3 over CM-1 here just to err on the side of caution.
After reconsidering the compatibility argument, I think the issue here is being framed incorrectly.

The existence of compatibility requirements for possession, soul transfer, or Od manipulation does not inherently contradict the Od being an existence defining conceptual aspect of a person. Those limitations would apply to the successful interaction/manipulation of Od, rather than the innate ontological status of Od itself.

Re:Zero consistently treats the Od as the primary source from which the vessel derives the following:

  • bodies reshape themselves according to the Od,
  • spirits fundamentally exist as Od first and manifestation second,
  • resurrected bodies are reconstructed based on the shape of the soul,
  • and even genetically distinct compatible vessels eventually morph into the original soul’s appearance over time.
The compatibility argument therefore establishes restrictions on the application of soul-based abilities, not that the vessel ontologically defines the Od equally in return.

This would also align with existing precedents involving individually bound CM type 1 in other verses such as KH, where compatibility/resistance mechanics exist without disqualifying the conceptual nature itself.
 
You're just contradicting yourself as you're accepting that the concept doesn't need universal range yet demand for it to affect an entire reality (the same thing) as to qualify as a type 1 concept. Your argument only works if we go with Od being something only manipulable in a universal scale, which the verse evidently confirms as not the case, and it's not an anti-feat as much other verses with individualist type 1 concepts (souls in DMC, hearts in KH) are a thing, so if anything I'd have to wonder from where you're pulling this patent double standard that at this point would require a separate site-wide CRT to sort out, as this clearly isn't the status quo to begin with.
Using the example of a circle, if we replace "circle" with "Od," would altering the Od change the entire reality in which the Od participates? The answer is no; it only affects a specific individual, not all individuals who possess an Od.
Read it again.

Reality does not mean universe. If the instances/particulars of a concept only exist in a town then that town would be the "entire reality" which the concept encompasses. Likewise if a concept is universal but range only governs the town then every particular in that town MUST participate in the concept. Doesn't matter of a city or universe exists outside the town.
 
I don't get why the Od would be a concept. All the reasoning you've given are naturally something a soul would be expected to do, since the soul is the essence of a being. From those scans alone, Od is synonymous with soul and in fact is called the soul multiple times and techniques to manipulate a soul would be exchanged as techniques to manipulate Od. For these reasons put me in disagreement
 
A concept doesn't have to govern universal reality in other to be type 1 or 2. "Reality" in the definition is all the particulars that participate in it even if there is only one of that thing at the moment. Defining an individual existence alone doesn't make it a personal concept however, I'm not really seeing anything that make Od a concept here
 
Hoyo was nuked for less 💔

You also need to fulfill this part of the definition ya know:
  1. Independent Universal Concepts: Such concepts are completely independent from the part of reality they govern, except maybe of other concepts of this nature. These concepts shape all of reality within their area of influence and at whatever level that area exists in, and everything in it "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the concept of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of their area of influence, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

This can be like… CM3, though. The standard is vague enough for that.
 
Hoyo was nuked for less 💔
image.png
 
Eh eh defining conceptual aspect as in shaping physicality yea ? I don't think the statements are that good or well "direct" to infer that the concept of physicality is shaped by the soul (it's more or less standard soul stuff) now since it does vary from person to person and determines the essence of their being and shaping the vessel (physical body) I am not against type-3 but the previous yap wasn't about that.
The existence of compatibility requirements for possession, soul transfer, or Od manipulation does not inherently contradict the Od being an existence defining conceptual aspect of a person. Those limitations would apply to the successful interaction/manipulation of Od, rather than the innate ontological status of Od itself.
I am not saying that the Od is ontologically limited in any way I am saying that if the relationship between the Od and the physical body/Vessel were that of on between a Universal and a Particular you wouldn't need conditions for possession, soul transfer etc. These goes to show that the relationship goes both ways in some aspect instead of a strict Universal --» Particular relationship.

Again Od kinda does what a normal soul does just with some good statements and feats but I feel like CM-1 is too much of a stretch so you can put me in aggreement with CM-3 if you wish to.
 
Cuz JJK has pretty much the same thing as an Od via Mahito… and I doubt we accept that as CM3.
The only thing I can think of is something like statement gap also the main argument from what I am getting is that Mahito has to do it himself as in he continuously supplies CE to reform or shape his body as long as his soul is intact instead of his soul being the essence of his body or wtv.
You aren't supposed to promote threads in another thread.....
 
All of this could be achieved with soul, life and bio hax, i couldn't see why it must be put under concept hax just because Od displayed some effects that is similar to what concept hax could possibly achieved.

So i don't see concept hax here, let's alone type 1.

At best you could argue manipulating Od = manipulating the concept that define physicality of a person. But that is a huge stretch, and at best Type 3 concept

Though i'm fine with manipulating Od = the combination of manipulating soul, life and biology
 
Though i'm fine with manipulating Od = the combination of manipulating soul, life and biology
What are your thoughts on Fungus Manipulation ? all jokes aside I kinda agree it's either that or CM-3 and I personally don't mind either. It's just more neat to put soul, life & bio under CM-3 ig. Also can you ping some other mods that are willing to evaluate ?
Specify, there are a lot of femboys here
All of them
 
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