Re:Zero kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Discussion Thread 4 (aka rem: zero)

[ZERO7772]

No one said that we just don't have better feat for him now IMO i think his prime should be higher though

Of course Wilhelm is better than Rem/Julius he is faster more skillful more experience and overall one of the best around the world and in his prime he could fight freaking sword saint Emilia is 8-A while Wilhelm is 8-C , Emilia could barely keep with Elsa while author said Wilhelm would beat her if Rem can get close enough to Emilia she would punch her head flying even in base while in magic battle she doesn't stand a chance

that doesn't scale to the AP , did tappei said Wilhelm would beat Rem in wrestling match ?

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

No he just said he was the strongest pick.

I originally made the suggestion that Wilhelm should be 8-C even if Rem becomes 8-B. I just saw Tappei's quote later and asked what you thought about it.

 

[ZERO7772]

Well to be honset i would say sword saints should be equal to Rem physically so Wilhelm scale to that ? we get feat from Reinhard proving he is at the very least equal to oni Rem "likely superior" the problem Reinhard is far superior to other sword saints "excluding Reid" so we can't scale sword saints to Reinhard to scale Wilhelm from it

 

[Gemmysaur]

Saw some stuff. Just sharing.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Hienkel We can't scale felix to rem he is considered the best water magic user in the world but he has never used water magic offensively, felix isn't a figther he himself even said he didn't have anything that could hurt the whale, that could be cause it was out of his range but even then rem could get it with el Human while felix couldn't so that doesn't make his case any better. i think it's clearly in term of using water magic to heal is why he is the best.

Lets just not upgrade people on assumptions here, julius has hax so he doesn't need to have higher ap anyway, and we can't prove julius>rem in magic.

Also we shouldn't upgrade wilhelm either cause he doesn't use magic, yes he is the best in the white whale subjugation but that is because of skill, experience and speed he would behead rem easily if they fought, remember piercing attacks require less energy to destroy stuff anyway so rem could have like city block level durability and wilhelm would still cut her head off.

I honestly don't even want to bother changing rem's stats because she is a pain in the ass to scale especially how we are gonna have to retier her i would just upgrade her magic use and be done with it if it was up to me can't bother having to rearrange tiers and what not.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

At the very least the stats for Rem have to change because we calced Emilia's ice feats. Rem's ice should also scale to the same method since the validity of the Emilia calc is not in question.

Also she has created such ice projectiles many times, including in the fight against Regulus when she created multiple 10-meter long Al Human ice shards simultaneously. Therefore, we need this calc for how much freezing ice Rem can create with Al Human.

And I make this suggestion with honest intent, not because Rem is best waifu; remember the first time you asked me why shouldn't Wilhelm scale to the 8-B ice feat, I could have just answered you yes it should. : P

Anyway, even without the crater calc Rem's Oni form should still be At least 8-C with the flail because she was able to hurt the White Whale with it pretty badly, practically enough to yank one away from Subaru with how much hurt it has.

 

[ZERO7772]

We already discussed her tiering yeah it's troublesome at first but that how it goes you really wanted it all giving for you pegasus xD

i will upgrade her myself you don't need to do it i will just give you the status so you check it

having 3 keys for Rem is "Meh"

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Don't have a problem with upgrading her with al Human, the problem i have is with upgrading her because of that crater she did which would put her at high 8-C. I am not gonna get into the whole arguement about it being inconsistent again and the difference between her using magic and absorbing mana to enhanace her body. You guys can decide what you want to do with her i am not really interested.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

On another note cover of volume 10 is out

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

@CP

I edited the post to mention that Rem will still scale to At least 8-C for being able to hurt the White Whale extensively. We won't need to use the mana-enhanced crater stomp for that upgrade, though it wouldn't hurt to use it either (I already got response from some calc members that it's usable, given consistent mana-enhanced durability feats as well). I'm just kinda lazy to make that calc because it requires a lot of pixel scaling.

9-B, 8-B with magic | At least 8-C, 8-B with magic

That should be simple enough tier for Rem. It won't put her above other heavy-hitters like Wilhelm or Julius.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

And yet fodder could also hurt the whale, it's durability is also a pain, sigh not gonna get into an arguement about not being hurt vs surviving an attack.

I will just go along with your suggestion.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Well for last explanation, fodders did not hurt the Whale as much as Rem or Wilhelm did. We even read Tappei giving the White Whale's HP as '9500/9999' after the Al Goa scene and Crusch's strike. In addition, Subaru pointed out quite clearly that the possibility of rescuing Wilhelm from the Whale's stomach depended heavily on how well Rem would fight. Rem's DPS took priority in their calculation above all others.

It's like comparing a pin prick on your forearm against a jack hammer mauling your face, because both wounds bleed

Right. Since we got that out of the way, what does Zero and Gemmy think about the 8-C upgrade for Rem's oni-enhanced strength instead of High 8-C?

 

[ZERO7772]

The crater stomp feat is fine for me and i explained why before , using the whale feat will low the ball + we will make a lot of assumptions we have a feat that can be explained we will just go out of our way for something we can't prove so we will bulid assumption based on another assumption

Julius will stay where he is until we find better feat for him and he is already 8-C IMO and Wilhelm i already said my view on him he isn't even magic user

 

[ZERO7772]

 

[ZERO7772]

Cover Of The Re:Zeropedia

Extra Breast size Emilia for you ~

 

[Gemmysaur]

Extra breast size? Wasn't she always that size? Not much smaller than Rem...

 

[ZERO7772]

The problem she have bigger breast than Rem in this xD they gave her extra breast to fit the "Sexy teacher Figure "

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Now correct me if i am wrong but don't the characters use magic by channeling their mana through their gate? And of course it can also be done by absorbing mana from the atmosphere or by using spirit arts, so using mana through your gate to use magic is then different from absorbing mana from the atmosphere?

You see where i am going with this right, rem using magic is different from her using her horn and absorbing mana to enhance herself hence we can't scale what she can do with magic to her oni form so those two tiers can't be joined and have to be separate.

I still don't agree with her oni form being high 8-C because it seems inconsistent as she has never replicated such a feat again in her oni form without magic or with her mace so it seems like an outlier to me, you can add it if you want but i don't agree with it.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

What's your opinion, Gemmy?

 

[Gemmysaur]

Regarding breast size, Rem is wearing a loose uniform while Emilia is wearing a tight-fitting dress. Clothing helps emphasize breast size.

Regarding magic. I'm gonna have to agree with Pegasus pointing out that gate channeling mana = / = horn absorbing mana, since until proof is shown, it seems to be separate.

So Oni Rem's strongest is scaled only to her stepping on an explosion or something against the mabeast, while her magic is by itself.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I understand that, however the main point we need to address is what to do with the High 8-C showing.

If we don't want to use that crater feat stepping on the Ulgarm mabeast's explosion, then we can give her 8-C for heavily damaging the White Whale.

It isn't really unreasonably above the general showings of the RZverse anyway; Elsa already has At least 9-A, that can go higher in the future, and Wilhelm/Julius/Betelgeuse already have 8-C too. If Rem can visibly damage someone who withstands the kinetic impact of her 22-ton ice, which had 8-C calc, then I think that should scale also. Both are kinetic impacts.

By the way the arguments we have for 8-C and High 8-C are different.

I will come back tomorrow.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I would be ok with 8-C i guess, quantifying the whale's durability in general is a pain, i think maybe we should ask some other members maybe in a separate thread about how to quantify it cause it is a headache for me to do so.

Next chapter is out "is it a requirement for all the maids of Roswaal's Mansion to be so quirky"

"Considering who our master is, what's the point of even asking that question?" Roswaal really has strange test considering his background it would be strange if he didn't.

"Don't you lay a finger on Rem" Subaru being all possessive

 

[Gemmysaur]

If that's the case (animal cruelty against the endangered species of whale), then yeah, Oni Rem gets 8-C too.

 

[ZERO7772]

I still with High 8-C other characters can't use their mana to enhance thier body because they don't have a horn i really don't see the point with lowering the ball of Rem because of other characters i am pretty sure we will get better feat for them in the future

You would never get 8-B Rem if it's not for the anime\manga

again other characters stay where they are until we find better feat for them like we did with Rem

on final note if Pegasus insist on 8-C then i don't want to make this long you can give her 8-C there isn't much different , her magic is still 8-B tho

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Other characters don't need to enhance their bodies, look at wilhelm he is already a beast physically.

The point is that using mana through your gate is different from absorbing it from the atomosphere so we can't scale her from what she does with magic to her oni form.

Honestly i don't really care about the high 8-C feat at this point, if you all agree on it then feel free to add it.

On a different note when can we expect the translations i have been waiting anxiously lol.

 

[ZERO7772]

i really like frederica

and i am starting to seriously think subaru still have grudge against otto since the the time he pushed him off the carriage he's so bully on him IMO

also "Don't you loay finger on Rem " < i almost forget subaru is the possessive\overprotective boyfriend type xD

On another note : Ley power can be counted as rewrite history ? it's literally limited to the memories i would say but Rem thing also disappeared when she were erased by the white whale so dunno

 

[ZERO7772]

Other characters can't enhance their bodies in the first place "Reinhard did it but he is so special" , wilhelm is beast without magic anyway he doesn't need more Physical power when he have A class speed , skill . experience

i also don't care that much at this point my vote is for High 8-C but if you want we go with 8-C i have not problem , the decision to Heinkel then xD

you mean the Reinhard part ? i will make wait little longer xD my friend did the scene for me immediately when i asked him but it was the wrong one have exams this week end according to him

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yes ley can rewrite history when he erases people from existence history is changed, history changes so no trace of that persons existence is left no memories, none of their possessions etc.

 

[ZERO7772]

Well Ram still lost her horn anyway after Rem were erased even though the main reasons she lost it that night was because she was defending Rem so it's not like Rem "literally" didn't existed it's more likely Ley make it sound as if she didn't existed ?

characters even describe the felt something were missing why Ram can't handle the mansion alone of all sudden ? if Rem didn't existed frederica should not leave the mansion in the first place

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

When ley erases someone all memories of them are erased, and in the place of those memories new ones are inserted, like for instant the whole mabeast stuff in arc 2 without rem there subaru became the villages hero and petra started liking him, and the whole ram and roswaal situation.

The reason why frederica left would be different no that rem is gone. So ley's power takes all memories of the persons and inserts new ones to fill in it's place it also erases all traces of them ever existing evident by when subaru went to rem's room and it was if she never lived there, now that was the whale who did that but ley has the same powers and i am pretty rem's room was erased when ley erased her too, oh there is also the blank letter which rem originally wrote but became blank when she got erased by ley so yea it definetly changes history.

 

[ZERO7772]

it doesn't change major events then it just replace the memories with different one that is closer to the current situation , Erasing persons literally from existing would cause far more chaose and holes methink ..... se we're back at his power is limited to the memory of the people he isn't really changing the history of the world itself he just alter the view of the people to make it sound as if the person didn't existed

i mean there a plot hole i never understood Ley eated Rem whole but didn't eat Crusch why ? Crusch is a royal candidates so everyone knows about her and even if we think Ley is Ley is completely not job out of the world he should still knows her from the memories of other people have have , actually he should know her name from Rem memories also he can have her memories but he still doesn't know her name from it isn't that stubid ?There really no explanation why Ley didn't eat Crusch other than it's the plot , erasing Crusch will cause too much chaos and the author can't deal with it

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

He also erases any object related to the person as i already said with the blank letter and rem's room being gone so it's not just memories.

Who knows i would say don't think too hard on why crush wasn't eaten maybe ley only wanted her memories, yea if crusch was eaten it would be a lot of holes to fill and events changing which would be a pain for tappei to deal with, rem is insignificant compared to crusch.

Serioulsy though when can we expect the translation i need my country level reinhard, been blue balled all week lol.

 

[ZERO7772]

-Which is why i was little confused about the extent of his power

-about crusch can only think of :

1-Ley have very special taste he doesn't eat thing unless it's totally worth it in his eyes so he may be thought Rem had more quality than crusch "bastard have quite the good taste xD"


2-it's just the plot

-I will make you wait littel longer reinhard fanboy

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Sigh gonna have to wait longer for country level reinhard lol. It's funny how he was originally country level and now he might be back to country level again.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Okay. I will make the changes to 8-C and 8-B. I will word it well so that it would be reasonable.

For the 8-B, we don't have confirmation for the calc yet, but we also don't have any objections either so far. Therefore, I think it would be safe enough to make the change for now. The method is the exact same one used for Emilia so at least we know it's a valid method to use. If the tiering causes some problem in the future, we can revert back to the previous tier any time after further discussions (like switching from Manga speed to Anime speed for Reinhard/Elsa).

 

[ZERO7772]

base Puck should scale to Rem upgrade

and wow serval characters were downgraded last time i cheked betelgeuse was 8-B and why white whale is 8-A ? PLUS if he 8-A now why characters such as puck and roswaal scale to him are still 7-C ?

Edit : Never mind

 

[ZERO7772]

Oh yeah Great work Heinkel <3

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

<3 gokurosama desu

 

[ZERO7772]

Q: What's the approximate percentage of the possibility that Subaru will be able to break through a loop without dying even once?

A: 0

LOL tappei actually said it


Q. Subaru used that technique(RbD) on the whale, but why didn't it die like Emilia?'

A. Because the white whale is not Emilia

just lolz

 

[ZERO7772]

This is a littel scene in arc 5 where subaru visit Rem Here

it's like Subaru is totally different person when he's with Rem IMO he kept talking to her until morning came xD