Re Zero Bishop Changes & Battle IQ

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Mostly fine.

I would be fine with Rai having a Warlock key.

Completely disagree with Reid and Reinhard having extraordinary genius. It's fine for Rai cause he has eaten thousands of people who excel in different areas, but Reinhard and Reid are just absurdly beyond the skill of combat geniuses, that's all.

They don't excel in many areas like Rai, nor do they create futuristic tech, or outperform supercomputers.

I agree with this take.

 

[Zabazab]

Thank you, gonna apply this after a nap then.

 

[Zabazab]

Changes have been applied.

 

[Zabazab]

Actually I think base Rai should be 8-B+ too since he is slightly superior to 2nd Shackle Ram, who is stated to be more than twice as strong as Beast Garfiel (scaling off of 27.66 tons).

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea, the value is a little off the mark as it starts at 55.5 tons, while 2x27.66=55.32, but it's really negligible, not even factoring in that physically Garfiel is superior to Rem, and Old Wil who scale to the 27.66 tons.

 

[Zabazab]

Done then. Might work on a new rating for Ram later that accounts for the usable statements regarding her shackles.

I think this can be closed.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Couple things about Rai, 2 Shackles Ram could toss around transformed Garfiel, so Warlock Rai should be plain Class 10 in lifting strength no?

Hypersonic speed confuses me, are we assuming 2 Shackles Ram is 2x faster than her Base due to the Tappei statement that she can defeat Garfiel with half her power? That seems like ap to me, and it's established that Ram is also far more skilled than transformed Garfiel, so she wouldn't need to be faster than him to beat him.

What proves her shackles boost speed as much as her ap essentially is what i am asking.

As for Warlock AP, should probably be like At least 8-A, Likely 7-B scaling above 3rd Shackles Ram, but for that it can wait until Ram's Shackles are revised, though it's pretty awkward to be revising Rai, while leaving Ram alone, since right now he is scaling to stuff which isn't on Ram's profile.

 

[Zabazab]

Couple things about Rai, 2 Shackles Ram could toss around transformed Garfiel, so Warlock Rai should be plain Class 10 in lifting strength no?

It was just because everything about Warlock Rai by his nature isn't 100% certain, but I'm good with a plain rating.

Hypersonic speed confuses me, are we assuming 2 Shackles Ram is 2x faster than her Base due to the Tappei statement that she can defeat Garfiel with half her power? That seems like ap to me, and it's established that Ram is also far more skilled than transformed Garfiel, so wouldn't need to be like faster than him.

It's assuming the boost to ap and speed are similar yes. Ram at her full power is FTL after all, but if you disagree then he can be nudged down to Supersonic+ if you'd like. I'm pretty unbothered about it until Ram's stuff is sorted whenever.

As for Warlock AP, should probably be like At least 8-A, Likely 7-B scaling above 3rd Shackles Ram, but for that it can wait until Ram's Shackles are revised, though it's pretty award to be revision Rai, while leaving Ram alobe, since right now he is scaling to stuff which isn't on Ram's profile.

True, I agree that it maybe wasn't planned as far ahead as possible. Either or of your suggestions seem fine, but the 7-B comes from the vs Daphne statement + him thrashing Ram in her 3rd Shackle.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Is Ram at Full Power FTL though? We haven't seen her at Full Power, and the statement about being above Sekhmet is about fighting strength, which i guess you could assume takes into account speed? But it's not really definitive.

Anyway probably should have held off on applying the revisions until the Ram ones were also ready.

 

[Zabazab]

I really can't see a world where Ram can be considered > Sekhmet without being at least comparable in speed. Even Regulus who is invincible and has ftl attacks can't compare.

Anyway probably should have held off on applying the revisions until the Ram ones were also ready to be applied.

Real & true, got ahead of myself.

 

[VortechsTG]

What proves her shackles boost speed as much as her ap essentially is what i am asking.

Flow method improvement has always boosted speed and power ?????

 

[VortechsTG]

I really can't see a world where Ram can be considered > Sekhmet without being at least comparable in speed. Even Regulus who is invincible and has ftl attacks can't compare.


Real & true, got ahead of myself.

Ram is arguably closer to the likes of Reinhard than Sekhmet and Regulus and she's a mostly physical fighter too. It would make no sense for her to not be ftl. It's even more evident than Satella is.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Going from a normal human to supersonic isn't equivalent to going from normal human to city block level, difference there is like hundreds vs ten of thousands?

That's not a 1:1 ratio, however I think this is an irrelevant argument, as her Shackles have to become exponential at some point to reach FTL.

So Hypersonic for Rai is cool.

 

[VortechsTG]

Going from a normal human to supersonic isn't equivalent to going from normal human to city block level, difference there is like hundreds vs ten of thousands?

That's technically true but I don't think Tappei understands that. The difference between for example Rem and Garfiel is generally about the same for power and speed. The base starting point can largely be discarded as a point of argument.

That's not a 1:1 ratio, however I think this is an irrelevant argument, as her Shackles have to become exponential at some point to reach FTL.

So Hypersonic for Rai is cool.

Yeah, he's clearly well beyond hypersonic either way.

 

[Zabazab]

I agree the ratio for speed and power likely isn't 1:1, I'm willing to be very flexible with Ram & her scaling since Shackles are funny, but I'm pretty firm in my belief in at least Full Power Ram.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Idk how 5 Shackles Ram would tier in speed... Halfway to full power, but is that halfway to FTL? At what point does her boost become exponential....

Let's save that for the Ram thread, this one I think can be reclosed, should be fine to leave things as is for now, hopefully nobody comes and complains about Rai scaling to Ram until then.

 

[VortechsTG]

Let's save that for the Ram thread, this one I think can be reclosed, should be fine to leave things as is for now, hopefully nobody comes and complains about Rai scaling to Ram until then.

That's definitely going to happen

 

[Zabazab]

Just... nobody use Warlock Rai and it'll be aight...