DragonLord
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I See, Thanks for the explanation
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Re-examining Super Mario cast Tiers
- Thread starter TMaakkonen
- Start date
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- Tags
- super mario
DragonLord
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You know, I was going to mention in reference to the WarioWare and DKC stuff how the DK pages have keys that separate DKC from Mario with different stats, but then I noticed that Wario has it too with Wario Land Series (Land, World and Master of Disguise)
Expect that, the Black Jewel feat from Wario World is listed on the Mario Series Key
Expect that, the Black Jewel feat from Wario World is listed on the Mario Series Key
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I'm going to need to point out a detail, not many people are going to trust an OP that is 100+ paragraphs long with each paragraph basically being 1-2 lines or sentences individually.
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Not really a matter of trust, more so a matter of not wanting to read all that.
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Yeah, I wouldn't like to slap Unknown on Mario profiles, they are far to popular and ther is way too much material to simply do so.
At the same time, power levels are objectively inconsistent, sometimes even on the same game.
Lou_change
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Several characters low 2-C characters have lower LS but that was causal.
What is the anti feat
Mario and Bowser still scale above power star users and bombs have harmed low 2-C's without destroying existence
Wasn't he beaten by fawful before that.
The only relevant character is wario and tell us what happened.
Same as the last one.
For example?
What happened if it is bowser dying in lava not only is that heavily inconsistent but a heat feat.
Wasn't he just beat up.
What happened?
It clearly harmed Mario and given kamek doesn't normally shoot Mario into space with his spell blast it could be a special non AP spell.
What the black hole he fell in after being beaten by Mario?
What happened because for some reason we gave that a different key.
I guess but I always thought that was only for humor or PIS and it just made a falling bowser spin and fall faster.
I mean it's should scale and that was the junior clown kart which should also scale.
Maybe but it didn't make him lose his power up and given basically every other pow block feat is one-shoting everything in the area I don't see a big problem.
Still different key and that is LS
If I recall the cannonball were used to blow up bowser's tank which lunched him into lava which caused his transformation into dry bowser the correct "anti feat" is them harming dry bowser but harming bowser and weaponry bowser choose to use is those cannonballs only feats.
What happened? Bowser using his hat which only two feats is hurting Mario and hurting bowser? If it's Mario going unconscious landing in cap kingdom that was after being beaten by bowser. If it is the lost kingdom drop he just fought bowser, ran from cannonballs that other feat was seemingly harming the odyssey more than the ruin dragon which Mario was in. Or moon kingdom where Mario and bowser fell unconscious Mario being knocked out is debatable given peach was perfectly fine and bowser was already knocked out by mario.
PIS
Lou_change
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Alright so my last comment might seem like I am against this but honestly Mario shouldn't be low 2-C Mario is put in weird situations which leads to inconsistent traits and Mario and friends are considered a group of actors that seem to be capable of playing games with references to other games honestly Mario should be unknown.
DragonLord
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- Thread starter
- #49
That should only be for games where that is clear like SM3 & Mario Party 2, but technically if we use the "all Mario games are canon" statement from interviews, then shouldn't other interview information also be used?
Ofc this is very harsh, but technically this does mean picking specific parts from interviews, rather than everything which kind of doesn't seem entirely fair.
Lou_change
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Yes, Mario as a whole needs some changes but everyone seems to focused on changing his AP I myself have minimal faith in my ability to find tier thru means other than clear scaling.
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- Thread starter
- #51
Wait hold up.
Paper Mario's profile lists link to Polygon which as well links to GameInformer's interview.
SM: If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon. They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games. It's more like they're one big family, or maybe a troupe of actors.
Miyamoto himself mentions this, which should heavily affect the lore of Mario as a whole.
Now I think this should be removed as a source, as otherwise we might have actual reasoning to make entire Mario cast as Unknown if all the games are just being "acted".
Paper Mario's profile lists link to Polygon which as well links to GameInformer's interview.
SM: If you're familiar with things like Popeye and some of the old comic characters, you would oftentimes see this cast of characters that takes on different roles depending on the comic or cartoon. They might be businessman in one [cartoon] or a pirate in another. Depending on the story that was being told, they would change roles. So, to a certain degree, I look at our characters in a similar way and feel that they can take on different roles in different games. It's more like they're one big family, or maybe a troupe of actors.
Miyamoto himself mentions this, which should heavily affect the lore of Mario as a whole.
Now I think this should be removed as a source, as otherwise we might have actual reasoning to make entire Mario cast as Unknown if all the games are just being "acted".
Lou_change
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Yeah I mean I doubt everything is special effects but that makes it clear that they don't always act at their full power if ever.
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Reality Equalization means it can be used IIRC, like we have with other fictional characters within fiction.
DragonLord
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I always felt like Miyamoto’s quote isn’t really “every game is the same Mario” but “Mario is an actor that plays roles in many different continuities”
His Cartoon character comparison makes sense in this case, Betty Boop for example has different Roles in every cartoon, one day she’s a working mother with a kid, the other time she’s a bratty teenager who gets haunted by spirits and the other she’s running for president, however Betty is established in other cartoons to be a sort of animated actor that takes part in multiple stories that aren’t connected to each other (I remember watching one where she talks to her own creator and is told to “act” through several suggested scenarios)
how exactly that would effect canon I’m not sure honestly, on one hand, reality equalization would mean that all the feats are still valid, but on the other, that would still mean the Mario in Mario Galaxy wouldn’t be the same on in Super Mario Party
His Cartoon character comparison makes sense in this case, Betty Boop for example has different Roles in every cartoon, one day she’s a working mother with a kid, the other time she’s a bratty teenager who gets haunted by spirits and the other she’s running for president, however Betty is established in other cartoons to be a sort of animated actor that takes part in multiple stories that aren’t connected to each other (I remember watching one where she talks to her own creator and is told to “act” through several suggested scenarios)
how exactly that would effect canon I’m not sure honestly, on one hand, reality equalization would mean that all the feats are still valid, but on the other, that would still mean the Mario in Mario Galaxy wouldn’t be the same on in Super Mario Party
Lou_change
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I don't think it makes other games uncanon to each other it's more like the same series of looney toons episodes technically canon to each other but that is really it.
DragonLord
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To add to this, the same interview that talks about Mario canon has Miyamoto say this
Miyamoto himself also seems to disagree on several things done to Mario over the years, calling Dr. Mario “not necessarily legitimate”, which would ether mean that Dr Mario is a fraud (which i think is contradicted In those games) or he doesn’t see it as “legitimate” aka Canon to Mario
Lou_change
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Maybe they mean genuine as he enjoyed his other jobs more.
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I kind of agree with this idea.
Imo Mario should have had different keys or profiles based on the series (Plateformers, Mario &Luigi, Party and Paper Mario for example) rather than one mixed up thing.
Given how differents things are from one to another, it would have been the closest we have to an actual consistent tiering.
Although I don't think such a thing would pass on VSB nowadays.
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If the energy is on a higher dimensionthen you need to prove why the energy absorbed is not 4th dimensional. By your logic absorbing 3D energy doesn't make you as strong as that energy thus 2D or less until further evidence is shown.
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Who are you talking to?
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Obviously if not anyone then the initial argument.
DragonLord
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If it was me I’d probably just split it up like
Main Mario (anything with the main Mario Design you see, Platformers, Karts, Parties)
Paper Mario (obvious)
Mario & Luigi (also obvious what I’m talking about)
Mario & Rabbids (The Newest Ubisoft thing kinda implies it’s there own thing as the guy at Ubisoft said the game was expanding there “our Universe” not “Nintendo’s Universe”
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This looks like something I would agree with.
Although maybe I would divide all the sports game in their own category too.
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That doesn't inherently mean not Nintendo's verse. Connecting verses would indeed be expanding.
What is Mario & Luigi? Is that a spin off?
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I would agree with a Mario key split, it's ambitious and likely very controversial but it seems like a good way to handle it for me.
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Ever hear of Bowser's inside story? Or Parters in time? Thats Mario & Luigi.
DragonLord
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While were at it maybe something for Doctor Mario, gotta be some feats and Abilties somewhere in those 10 games i think
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The feat is shoving hundreds of pills down someone's throat and not killing them!
Lou_change
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Can someone call some supporters?
Anyway I am opposed to splitting anything outside of rabbids as I recall the developers out right saying it isn't canon.
I can also accept paper mario but it is heavily implied both paper Mario and Mario went thru the same adventures so many keep the other's abilities as possibly shared.
Mario and Luigi should stay because I honestly don't think there is really any evidence against that also that basically leaves us with the everyone scales to everyone from the party games and that can't end well.
Anyway I am opposed to splitting anything outside of rabbids as I recall the developers out right saying it isn't canon.
I can also accept paper mario but it is heavily implied both paper Mario and Mario went thru the same adventures so many keep the other's abilities as possibly shared.
Mario and Luigi should stay because I honestly don't think there is really any evidence against that also that basically leaves us with the everyone scales to everyone from the party games and that can't end well.
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How is Mario & Luigi obvious? Paper Mario and Mario & Rabbids I can kinda understand but M&L doesn't show anything to say that they aren't. Hell the first game actually implies that it is in the Main Mario universe with nothing saying otherwise after this game (and before you bring up the Paper boxes, Paper Jam retconned that and nothing else)
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Actually, there's a few slight issues with splitting, for example, the platform games are blatantly canon to all of them at the very least (or at least a handful). Like 3D is obvious, we even see recordings from Fludd confirming games like bros 1 happen, same goes for the others too iirc.
Sport games are weird, they're mentioned to have occurred in Paper at least.
I don't disagree with some splits and keys, but, it's not as simple as just splitting it up by game lines, there does exist some overlap and shared games so like
If we do split, we need to figure out which games have an overlapping canon.
Sport games are weird, they're mentioned to have occurred in Paper at least.
I don't disagree with some splits and keys, but, it's not as simple as just splitting it up by game lines, there does exist some overlap and shared games so like
If we do split, we need to figure out which games have an overlapping canon.
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I personally agree with things like doctor mario.
but doubtful about mario & luigi or paper mario, there is evidence that within these games there are continuities with other mario games and in fact with paper mario i remember there was enough evidence to show that they are the same mario.
so doctor mario at least for me is fine to be something separate to the main saga, but very doubtful about others.
but doubtful about mario & luigi or paper mario, there is evidence that within these games there are continuities with other mario games and in fact with paper mario i remember there was enough evidence to show that they are the same mario.
so doctor mario at least for me is fine to be something separate to the main saga, but very doubtful about others.
DragonLord
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I meant obvious as in what series I’m referring too
though I feel like the Box thing is really more of a Easter egg/neat reference, it’s like a game showing x character over the years and the first showing is a sprite, I don’t think there really saying they actually looked like that back then
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I disagree with the splitting to an extent. Paper Mario is like DBGT. Same events from Z as DBS but different sequels still. Rabbids & M&L was never objectively creating another continuity. Just our headcanon and skepticism saying they just shouldn't together.
Party & Racing is odd. They are just for play not story games to an extent thus we should prolly find some references from the real continuity that connects them. Or someone hit up a developer on Twitter. That usually seems to work.
Also is Sma5h being questioned as well? I don't recall seeing this series as it's own but instead just a few character found only there scaled like the hands that look like Glover or that big ball of light with the theme song at the beginning of the game.
Party & Racing is odd. They are just for play not story games to an extent thus we should prolly find some references from the real continuity that connects them. Or someone hit up a developer on Twitter. That usually seems to work.
Also is Sma5h being questioned as well? I don't recall seeing this series as it's own but instead just a few character found only there scaled like the hands that look like Glover or that big ball of light with the theme song at the beginning of the game.
DragonLord
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Scratch the parties, apparently MP5 implies it’s there own “World”
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What the hell is this?
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Something amazing
DragonLord
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yeah... downgrading a verse because it rivals another. so based...
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Rivals Marvel and DC in inconsistency, maybe.
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