Raven vs The Ancestor

[Mr. Bambu]

I disagree with Flaying being dura negging hax, since it is purely a physical attack that flays your skin, but I digress.

I believe it is more likely for Ancestor to spam his rather neat abilities than Raven to dimensionally BFR, which is her main win condition aside from being intangible and flying around with her shooty powers. I don't believe flaying is subject to forcefields as... well, it isn't a projectile in any way, it's the skin being torn off your body.

So my vote does remain for Ancestor despite lesser AP.

 

[DMUA]

I disagree with Flaying being dura negging hax, since it is purely a physical attack that flays your skin, but I digress.

insert circles of arguments that we already had on discord

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeeep.

 

[Wokistan]

Votes updated, haven't read much else of the replies.

 

[Wokistan]

bump

 

[Yellowpig10]

Ancestor fra

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Ancestor FRA.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Ancestor FRA.

 

[Schnee_One]

Incon FRA

 

[MrSpringWater]

Inconclusive FRA

 

[Wokistan]

bump

 

[RavenSupreme]

The title is very suggestive and manipulative I have to admit. This is a very close matchup seeing how even the odds are shared. Calling it "just 2 votes" makes it appears as if it were a done deal and people likely just come in without really reading what was being said.

Might change that, just my input.

 

[Wokistan]

Yeah I put it like that before people started voting inconclusive and just forgot to change it. I'd agree with you at this point.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I vote inconclusive for RavenSupreme's reasons.

 

[PaChi2]

oi. If this is inconclusive let me follow the bandwagon.

Inconclusive FRA.

 

[Wokistan]

Incon and Ancestor seem matched up tho its like 4-6 with you

 

[RavenSupreme]

5-6 I think. So one more Incon needed for this to finally being concluded.

 

[Wokistan]

Nah vote difference is too small rip

If it were 4-6 rn, you'd be right, but due to it being 5-6, you'd need an 8th vote or someone to stop voting ancestor.

 

[RavenSupreme]

ah okay thanks for the clarification, didnt knew that

 

[Wokistan]

bump

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Inconclusive FRA

 

[Wokistan]

Bump

 

[Antoniofer]

Aren't 7 votes enough now? Or at this point we need certain number of votes more than the other opponent?

 

[Wokistan]

Not enough of a vote difference right now.

 

[Wokistan]

Bump

 

[Wokistan]

bump

 

[Schnee_One]

Why did you bump? Grace is over

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Probably so that someone will add it

 

[Wokistan]

Grace didn't start, though. The vote counts are too close.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I'd still vote for The Ancestor, she has no way around type 3 madness manipulation.

 

[The_Divine_Phoenix]

Seems we're getting further away from resolving this, not closer, i'm surprised this hasn't been abandoned yet.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Again, doesn't matter physical dura for Raven, it's hax.
Also, Raven probably wouldn't mind madness manipulation much, considering her mind is already a cesspool of Eldrich forkery that legitimately sent Doctor light into mental trama from spending mere seconds in. White Raven should have no problem looking at Ancestor going for it.

This doesn't give you resistance to type 3 madness manipulation. You need to experience something like The Ancestor, having that kind of mind isn't enough. It's not even in her profile.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Actually having suitable exposure (or being such a thing) to eldritch stuff would give resistance, though I'm not sure of the specifics.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah.

If you're used to incomprehensible forkery, then seeing incomprehensible forkery shouldn't really effect you.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

You need to be exposed to an outside source of madness manip, not your own.

 

[DMUA]

Not really

I mean unless you think you can defeat Cthulhu by showing him a mirror for a week.

It's generally assumed that if you're a source of Eldrich forkery, unless shown otherwise, you should be fine with it.

 

[Wokistan]

Ancestor can affect people that can already resist similar stuff to himself to a degree, though. There's also the type 2, and you'll notice how Raven did succumb to the hopelessness without Robin.

 

[DMUA]

"Some degree" is a key term considering a big point of conflict in game is making sure your party doesn't go insane and implode on themselves. Meanwhile Raven is literally a walking breathing Eldrich heckhole.

Type 2 is more him showing off his Eldrich forkery though, not him using Mind Manipulation per say.

Hopelessness is not the same as "wanting to rip out your own eyes with a spoon because what you just saw was ludicrously terrifying"

 

[Wokistan]

His type 2 is the one where he shows them a vision of their inevitable future, which for some reason also works on the suicidal party members like the Jester and Flagellant. Remember that his stuff at this point is also somewhat comparable to the HoD. The HoD was the one thing to affect him, back when his mind was also totally fine with every other eldrich god he was communing with or discovering.

 

[DMUA]

Oh yeah

Wasn't the Heart the only really proper Eldrich thing he's ever dealt with? Everything else is just kinda random pig demons and what not, not really a proper incomprehensible bit of madness.

Eh, maybe I'll switch to Ancestor then via Speed and Hax