Rat Tries to Avenge Jotaro's Death Battle Loss

[ProfessorLord]

Depends on the medium. In most verses where you can destroy a soul, it usually results in insta-death. We don't have a specific function for it on this wiki.

Stands CAN affect souls, but they cannot affect souls if they are bound to a body. Star Platinum has never punched someone so hard that their soul broke, and there is no evidence or anything at all suggesting they can affect bounded souls.

That being said, Kenshiro would be considered a bounded soul, as in it's resided within his body. Him going Muso Tensei isn't enough because it's still bound to his non-existent body. Stands would need soul manipulation in order to reach it while he's alive in general. Once he passes away though it would be unbound, and any stand can touch it as it's just the same as any incorporeal.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I mean....

A non-existent body isn't a body

 

[ProfessorLord]

Yes it is. Non-existent physiology is a thing on this wiki.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yeah, but it isn't one that exists and shouldn't affect Bug Eaten unless explicitly shown to

 

[ProfessorLord]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Nonexistent_Physiology

This is what Muso Tensei is essentially. Users of the ability only exist as limited information, such as light and sound, allowing others to perceive them but not interact with them.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Yes, I know that, but Occam's Razor dictates we should assume that non-existent philology would function as if they had no body rather then if they did

 

[ProfessorLord]

That's incorrect usage of occam's razor.

He does have a body correct, it just doesn't exist in the material world. His soul according to JoJo logic is bound to his body. Therefore Ratt cannot touch his soul. It's not floating there free for everyone to interact with when he uses Muso Tensei.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I mean...

If it's something that's been dictated directly in JoJo you'd be right, but that would need scans

 

[ProfessorLord]

No I don't need scans for something that has been demonstrated.

No stand has ever touched the soul of a person. They've touched loose souls like ghosts, yes, but in general no stand has ever demonstrated the ability to reach into someone and touch their soul.

We know souls are bound to the body in JoJo because Joseph and Kakyoin both lost their soul during the gambling arcs, and they passed out when it happened. When they returned you can see their ghosts flying towards their body. So yes, the body is a vessel and the spirit is bound to it.

Therefore Kenshiro's body would function the same. His soul would be bound to his body, and when he goes non-existent, his soul would still be bound to a non-existent vessel.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

But Ken doesn't even have non-existent physiology on his profile.

 

[ProfessorLord]

Bug-Eaten didn't have small size up until a few days ago.

Does that mean he was human sized, TacticalNuke002???

 

[TacticalNuke002]

What's with the hostility? Ken's is an old profile and till now everyone's been using Musou Tensei as intangibility (which is what's on his profile), while Bug-Eaten is a new page that a comparably new user like me has made (tbh, I didn't know that small size was an ability until recently). Also, Bug-Eaten's small size is kinda obvious and people aren't gonna use him as a human sized rat. In the case of Ken however, we don't know what to expect wrt Musou Tensei other than what's on his profile, so I'm just saying that. On the argument side, Ken going non-existent (if that's what it is) is just him leaving his soul exposed while protecting his body.

 

[Asuka_the_Demonic_Empress]

If he continues with the hostile behaviour, i think a report would be necessary.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Nah, Asuka keep that stuff out. Its just a passive-aggressive taunt that can easily be ignored for the sake of debate. Not report worthy at all.

 

[ProfessorLord]

I wasn't trying to come off as hostile, I'm sorry if you felt that way.

Two forms of intangibility do not mean they can interact with each other anyway, unless it has been demonstrated or stated that the mechanics behind it allow them to interact with each other.

What I'm trying to say is stands cannot grab the elementally intangible, right? Star Platinum can't grab onto a fire golem; it doesn't have a form for him to interact with. Same thing applies here. Ratt cannot touch him because he is intangible, regardless of whether or not Ratt is intangible as well. Two intangibilites do not cancel each other out.

Ken's soul is exposed, but in JoJo physics it is still bound to his intangible body... which Ratt cannot touch. I'm repeating this again, stands have never touched the soul inside of someone, like ever.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Promestein is apparently a knowledgeable member for FoTNS. If possible, ask him for some input. I'm on mobile and can't do so myself.

 

[DMUA]

him

Prom is a female entity

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Oh was she? I didn't know.

 

[Jasonsith]

I agree to ask some good professionals for advice.

Until then:

Kenshiro: 1 (jasonsith)

Bug-Eaten: 6 (Standuser081, Ricsi-viragosi, ProfessorLord, Calaca Vs, DragonEmperor23, Asuka the Demonic Empress)

 

[Yobo_Blue]

If I haven't made it clear Bug-Eaten fra

 

[ProfessorLord]

i retract my vote for now

 

[Jasonsith]

So stop counting votes until some professionals come in for clarification okay?

Until then:

Kenshiro: 1 (jasonsith)

Bug-Eaten: 6 (Standuser081, Ricsi-viragosi, Yobobojojo, Calaca Vs, DragonEmperor23, Asuka the Demonic Empress)

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

So we aren't taking any new votes?

 

[Jasonsith]

Promestein is apparently a knowledgeable member for FoTNS. If possible, ask him for some input. I'm on mobile and can't do so myself.

So we aren't taking any new votes?

I think advice is needed before new votes are taken. Or, better, reset votes if professional advice suggests so. Even better, have pros from FOTNS and Jojo to come to explain.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

bump

 

[Jasonsith]

How can we make proper requests for "professional advice" here though

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Find anyone who has done revisions on FoTNS in the past.

 

[Standuser081]

Uh, the Knowledgeable Members List?

 

[TacticalNuke002]

bump

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I think Kenshiro takes this.

Precognition, Spatial Manipulation, and Existence Erasure are all things that the Bug-Eaten voters have yet to address.

 

[Jasonsith]

I think Kenshiro takes this.

Precognition, Spatial Manipulation, and Existence Erasure are all things that the Bug-Eaten voters have yet to address.

Please give our knowledgeable member a big hand first.

If Ken has precognition and can actually sense the stand and the darts, he can casually dodge or block with ki blast. Worst case, he blocks with his hand, he fixes by acupuncture, and blasts BE to death.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

He can't fix by acupuncture, but the rest seems fine. I'll remove the BE votes and add Ken's.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

DMUA and ProfessorLord seem to be supporting Ken but haven't formally voted yet, so please do so.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah, alright, Kenshiro for reasons above.

Oh wait now I remember why I didn't vote

Because I'm pretty sure the fact that Bug Eaten can't actually hit Ken and the fact that Ken could tap him once and make him explode before the effects of Hokuto even kicked in is somewhat stompish.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Why is this even considered fair? But-Eaten doesn't ignore durability to the point of being able to pierce someone way stronger than any 8-B Jojos. He can't win.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Kenshiro FRA. Rat is road kill.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Why is this even considered fair? But-Eaten doesn't ignore durability to the point of being able to pierce someone way stronger than any 8-B Jojos. He can't win.

Didn't it affect them after he touched the bullet without getting actualy pierced? (Litiraly held it between his fingers)

 

[TacticalNuke002]

Its contact on organic matter which is what's required. Piercing isn't necessary.

Well, it might not be a stomp if Ken tries to grab the darts out of the air, or if he doesn't activate musou Tensei. His precog is the only reason he's winning, so it doesn't seem like a stomp to me.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Didn't Bug Eaten's poison melt rocks?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Ratt's darts are barbed, pretty sure that's what hurts the user when touching it, not the bullets automatically melting everything it touches.