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Rat Tries to Avenge Jotaro's Death Battle Loss

TacticalNuke002

TacticalNuke002

6,901
4,308
Bug-Eate vs Kenshiro (Hokuto no Ken)

Both have defeated Jotaro in the past. Location is a post-apocalyptic rubble filled field. Max rubble height is around knee level.

Kenshiro knows that Bug-Eaten shoots stuff and can see its Stand, but not what it can do.

Speed Equalised

SBA

Both are at their strongest

Bug-Eaten is bloodlusted (not that it matters. That rat is always going for the kill anyway)

Kenshiro is in character

Kenshiro: 6 (Jasonsith, ArbitraryNumbers, DMUA, Mr. Bambu, Calaca Vs, ProfessorLord)

Bug-Eaten:

Inconclusive:
 
Rat shoots. Ken gets hurt. He uses some acupuncture skills to stop the spreading of the damage. (Jagi, a weaker HS practitioner, can do this to counter against some of Ken's acupuncture attacks, Ken is able to do much better.)

Then he senses the location of the rat, he slams on the floor and send Rat flying. May have already activated MT.

Ken hits the rat and the rat wa mou shin deiru.

Ken wins by (healing and attacking) skill and strategy.
 
How exactly is acupuncture gonna help against being melted to gelatine level, and Kenshiro can't tank attacks. Even in character, BE attacks straight at the neck as its opening move.
 
Usually Kenshiro starts defending by his hand or arm, or even with his clothes on. So usually Kenshiro would have his clothes melted, or, even worse, having his hand out of commision. But while he cannot stop the sore hand from being melted to gelatine level, he can still hope to stop it from melting his whole body away. The only chance Ratt can win is when it headshots and Ken has not had his Musou Tensei on by the time he is hit.

Ken may not win unhurt, but will still win.
 
yeah bug-eaten FRA. unless Kenshiro has an answer to his melted distorted flesh, I don't see him winning this fight, sorry.
 
Why would Kenshiro not just dodge the attack ?

He's far smarter than Bug-Eaten and also has instinctive reaction, precognition and clone creation.

he can and will be able to land an attack on the rat, he doesn't even need to get close to Bug-eaten, he has ranged attacks.
 
Speed is equalized here, and I don't see Kenshiro's personality as "let me dodge all of your attacks" but rather "let me tank your attack to demonstrate how futile you are", and he has no way of knowing that it's going to melt his flesh via stand magic.

That's just my input, I might switch to Kenshiro here.
 
Bug Eaten can hit non corporal stands

It can't hit literally nothing
 
It's literally the power of nothingness, it turns you into nothing.

This is supported via the fact that trying to punch someone in Muso Tensei while you aren't in Muso Tensei will just release you from the burden of having an arm.

Muso Tensei can also warp space around the user to flip off projectiles, and Ken can use Ki to Omea Wa Mou Shideru from far away.
 
Does Ken have a range above 60 metres? His profile says 10s of metres so I can't tell. Plus, absolute nothingness is abstract existence which is a bit too far. His profile states it to be intangibility with added ee. Seeing as other Musou Tensei users can interact with Ken and Stands can affect other Stands and ghosts(minus ee), they should be able to affect Ken. And the biggest question is, will Ken be that freaking serious against a rat with a gun? He doesn't even take building sized men seriously sometimes. Also, Ken is the type to grab the bullets out of the air to show his skill.
 
It's not abstract, no, but it's nothingess.

If he grabs the bullet, they aren't hitting him and causing any damage.

Precognition lets him see the bullets are about to mess him up as well, and lets him just kill it.

Not to mention, it needs to pierce the skin to actually take effect. It's going to bounce off completely from Low 6-B Skin with it's 8-B AP.
 
It can affect Stands which are soul based. It should bypass Musou Tensei (provided he even uses it). His precog lets him see the path of incoming attacks, but not the effect of the attacks, if I'm not wrong. It doesn't need to pierce the skin. Contact is enough.
 
Stands are fighting spirit.

Aura is fighting spirit.

Muso Tensei is not Aura. Muso Tensei requires other Muso Tensei to actually be effected.

He gets flashes of the future, he can see the effects.

The idea is that the shot goes in and infects the opponent from my understanding. If it was to just bounce off their skin, it can't liquify.
 
Stands are soul based and there are multiple references to it. For example, Polnareff said that Iggy had a proud soul so he could become a Stand user. It is a soul based representation of one's fighting spirit. Darts require contact only. Its ability doesn't really need to pierce to melt. And even if he dodges, he has to deal with the ricochets. Plus, you haven't answered my biggest question. Is Kenshiro willing to get that serious for a mere rat?
 
When he sees his skin melting in a future flash, he definitely will.

And? Just because you can hit souls doesn't mean you can hit nothingness. And it also doesn't mean it doesn't just disappear upon hitting nothingness. Additionally, Muso Tensei can let the user instinctively warp space to make attacks miss.

Every instance we've seen bug Eaten used, it's worked by hitting the skin and injecting poison. Even if it doesn't need to imbed itself in the skin, it's not like the bullet is radioactive or something, it wouldn't really be able to do anything to Ken. Especially considering that every non Muso Tensei thing gets erased upon trying to hit him.
 
His physical form remains and can be seen, so he's simply intangible with an added quirk of EE. Any non-intangible thing touches him, it gets erased. However, other intangible people can interact with him. Stands can interact with intangibles, so they should hit him as well. Musou Tensei isn't something unique that verse equalisation won't cover. Also, I don't recall Ken getting visions against fodder.
 
They have to make their stands intangible, the literal rat probably wouldn't know to do that. Also, his bullets sure don't resist EE.

That's because Fodders can't actually kill him or generally give him anything that would be worth having Precog about.
 
Actually, the whole reason souls are intangible is because they don't exist in the physical world, so it should be able to hit Kenshiro, who only has physical nonexistent physiology
 
I mean

The Bug Eaten voters also haven't addressed spacial manipulation and EE causing their bullets to not do squat so

I'm not sure they should count.
 
The punch or whatever has to go through his intangible body to get erased. Which won't happen as the darts will hit. Also, how many darts will Ken deal with at a time? Bug-Eaten's mini-danmaku has direct body attacks, dodge preventing darts(darts in the dodge path) and ricochets from blind spots.
 
Spacial manipulation is still a thing.

Doesn't matter the number of darts, all of them just can't hit due to instinct saying otherwise.
 
Stands cannot affect conventional souls. They do not have soul manipulation on their profiles for a reason. Them touching ghosts is only proof of them being incorporeal, which by default grants them non-physical interaction (its not listed but its a consequence of being incorporeal)

Yes stands are selectively intangible and yes they are incorporeal. Does either one let them interact with Kenshiro? Because touching the soul within a person isn't a thing they've ever done, touching an actual soul is.
 
It's a weird situation. Stands have never punched somebody or reached into someone and grabbed their soul before. If a person is not dead in JoJo, then for all intensive purposes, they are unified with their soul completely. Once they die they separate and split apart from each other.

If Kenshiro goes non-existent, I'm inclined to say while his soul still technically exists, it's not something a stand can touch or grab seeing as how it should be attached to the body according to JoJo lore and physics.
 
Souls just mimic physical damage in JoJo.

Whether it's a knife or Killer Queen turning them to Ash doesn't matter.
 
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