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Raiden (Metal Gear) vs Ryuko Matoi

We've already had this discusion before Ryu (You probably don't remember since it was around the time I first joined) I don't feel like talking about it again since we aren't going to see eye to eye about this and I don't want to waste your time.

Still looking for that thread, just can't remember what form it was under so I'm looking through them all)
 
I appreciate you not wanting to waste my time. But I just wanted to know why it's fine to have speed unequalized in a speed equalized match.
 
The entire reason of Speed Equalzing a match up is because we want it to be fair correct?

How is restricting speed amps fair?

I understand Speed Equalzing but restricting speed amps is not okay for me. It's not fair for a speedy character like Ruby Rose (Volume 1-3) or Teny Iida.

These characters have special abilites that no longer work because they can't use their speed amp, Ruby loses her Semblance and Iida Recipro Burst is worthless.

For Iida it's even worst since after using his speed amp he loses his movement and because a sitting duck, I find that it's unfair for Iida since his Recipro in a speed equal match hinders him instead of helping him.

Why is speed amping allowed to be restricted when it's a valid choice of winning just like any other statistic amping move?

That's a double standard if I've ever seen one.

If speed amping makes a match up a stomp than guess what... it's a stomp and you shouldn't make that match up in the first place.

At what point do you draw the line between being fair and getting rid of abilites just so they can fight so and so? Match-ups with equalized statistics (with the exception of speed) are not allowed, as they turn the entire tiering system unnecessary

I think removing Speed amps is the same thing, what's the point of having speed at all if it never matters in debates?

Ryu... I'm going to be honest, I'll never agree with speed amps being restricted and you can't make me see otherwise. I'm only telling you this again because you asked for this.

I don't want to make this a big deal so I'm dropping this.

I'm going to sleep and unfollowing (I'm sorry for wasting your time and being rude)
 
If a match isn't fair with speed equalized, then you don't equalize speed. Or you don't have a match at all. You don't pretend like it's speed equalized then it actually isn't.

Why is it fine to negate someone's entire stat advantage, yet not okay to restrict one specific ability? Especially when the net result is exactly the same (speed which otherwise would've been used as an advantage is getting restricted). That is the complete inconsistency here.

Why is it okay to use restrict Goku's higher forms in a match up? You're taking away his special abilties, stat amps and abilities aren't you?

Why is it fine to have an equalized speed match up with DBS SSJ3 Goku where he can't go SSB? You're taking away a speed amp now.

But here's the thing. A speed equalized match up which allows speed amps, by definition, is not speed equalized. The entire point of speed being equalized is, exactly as the name says, to have both characters have equal speed. If you're then going to allow someone to gain a speed advantage, then it no longer is a speed equalized match.

That is why I'm against speed amps. Or at least, calling a match speed equalized yet allowing speed amps. Because it's literally not a speed equalized match anymore. The speeds between them are now unequal.

And this "equalizing speed is fine but not speed amps" is completely arbitrary and nonsensical. In both cases you're restricting someone's natural speed abilities. There's no reason for one to suddenly be okay and the other not.
 
"The entire point of speed being equalized is, exactly as the name says, to have both characters have equal speed."

False. While it does have that effect, the entire point of Speed Equalization is to prevent what would be a stomp via the faster character being literally unable to be hit and being capable of getting in several hits before the slower character is able to take a step. The point isn't to have the characters move at a similar pace at all points during the fight. Usually, a speed amp doesn't increase speed enough to the point of a blitz. Hell, technically a blitz CANNOT happen due to speed amp, as you need to activate it to gain said speed.

I swear we had a thread around this at one point. If we're gonna disable speed amp because "but speed isn't equalized anymore", then why allow time slow/quick? They give the exact same result either way. Why not disable time stop while we're at it? If we're going the "allowing speed amp is arbitrary" route, we can ban a lot more stuff that affects speed.
 
If you're going to add speed amps, at least call the match something else.

"A speed equalized match where speed isn't equalized" is objectively nonsense and an oxymoron. At least say something like "Speed except for transformations is equalized", "Both start off at the same speed" or something like that.

Don't call it "Speed Equalized" or say "Speed was equalized" only to then literally do the exact opposite.
 
Why is disabling a stat boost bad? Because it makes a certain techniques entirely useless, takes away one's natural speed ability and negates an advantage of theirs in the fight?

Speed equalizing does the exact same thing.

Why is equalizing one's entire arsenal of speed okay yet taking away one speed technique bad? The difference here is never given, or at least whatever reason there was is as arbitrary as it gets.

Why was it okay for us to negate one opponent's natural speed advantage in order to equalize speed, yet not okay to negate the other opponent's natural speed advantage?

Also yes a blitz can happen with amps, as long as they can activate it before their opponent kills them. The blitz will happen after it's activated.

Time Manipulation gives the effect of a speed blitz, but it doesn't change one's actual, natural speed technically.

However again, as long as someone doesn't call this type of match "speed equalized" or describe speed as having been equalized, I'm fine with base speeds being equal with amps allowed.
 
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