Raiden (MGS) vs Beezlebub (ROR) (0-0-0)

[Chariot190]

I haven't taken time to look at the profile thoroughly beyond his powers, stats and intelligence and the like. Not everyone will, most people won't, all you have to do is just answer the question without being snobby.

That sounds like a personal issue.
Always read the profile before asking questions.

All Beelzebub has to do to circumvent this is just raise his staff a bit and flex his vibrations to simply blow the weapons away.

And then what?
Theyll keep coming, theyll come from his blindspots, theyll come even when seemingly knocked away.
Bubs has analytical prediction, sure, but is it enough to keep up Raiden's who's like, 14 skill stomps above dude's with analytical prediction that enables them to know what their foe will do before they do it? Their foes attack patterns? And even instantly copying complex techniques?
Would he know that a quantum duraneg sai is gonna come from a blindspot calculated by a supercomputer?

Raiden on the other hand does, every twitch, every move, he'll know long before he does so.

It doesn't have to blow him instantly to bits to do severe damage or partially deform him. Whether he's in bits after one hit or after a couple of hits really doesn't change the outcome.

It does because he literally has full heals? Multiple, automated too, and he only needs to land one blow in turn, in which he has multiple long range weapons wuth this hax, and Raiden if he so chooses is also a stealth god and can literally just vanish and assassinate him at a drop of a hat.


If Raiden isn't straight up blown to shit beyond what nanopaste can deal with, which he won't be, that gives Raiden the chance to just change his gameplan and stealth, in which case he wins every time and Bubz can't do anything about that, or, literally just give Raiden the means to land one hit. Raiden can and will sacrifice limbs, and whole chunks of his body to land a hit, he'll even attack himself to land one, he doesn't care, doubly so because none of this will even be lethal to him. Raiden has multiple opportunities to land a hit past getting attacked himself, given the sheer amount of layers of analprecog Raiden is one, boosted by having multiple AI's aiding him targetting a foe's weakpoints and more, Raiden being able to slip Dystopia in from a blindspot is actual child's play.

 

[azontr]

That sounds like a personal issue.
Always read the profile before asking questions.

The issue is only created when you act like a snob. Just don't. Simple.

And then what?
Theyll keep coming, theyll come from his blindspots, theyll come even when seemingly knocked away.

For one, speed is not equalized. Beelzebub is 12 times faster, he's going to see them coming.

For two, the weapons are not faster than Beelzebub, even if speed is equalized. It's as simple as following them with his eyes and just dodging or blocking again.

Bubs has analytical prediction, sure, but is it enough to keep up Raiden's who's like, 14 skill stomps above dude's with analytical prediction that enables them to know what their foe will do before they do it?

Beelzebub's analytical prediction scales to or above Kojiro, who could do literally that when he was a teenager 400 years ago. This is practically childsplay for any relevant sword-fighter.

Would he know that a quantum duraneg sai is gonna come from a blindspot calculated by a supercomputer?

"Blindspot calculated by a supercomputer" means functionally nothing. There are a limited number of blindspots a person can have. Unless the weapons are bending space, or can discover blindspots that literally don't exist, then eventually all the possible bases it can cover will be covered, and Beelzebub will be aware of them.

You don't need a supercomputer to attack where an opponent can't see. If you do, then you need to read about how the human (or in this case godly) eye works.

does because he literally has full heals? Multiple, automated too, and he only needs to land one blow in turn, in which he has multiple long range weapons wuth this hax, and Raiden if he so chooses is also a stealth god and can literally just vanish and assassinate him at a drop of a hahat.

If he disappears, Beelzebub is just going to blow up the area with vibrations. He's not going to waste time looking for Raiden, all he has to do is just attack wherever he could be, and he can only be in limited places within a range.

Raiden has multiple opportunities to land a hit past getting attacked himself, given the sheer amount of layers of analprecog Raiden is one, boosted by having multiple AI's aiding him targetting a foe's weakpoints and more, Raiden being able to slip Dystopia in from a blindspot is actual child's play.

Fighters lesser than Beelzebub can "layer" their analytical prediction with each passing moment, constantly skill-stomping themselves from a few moments before, and Beelzebub is better than them. This really, really is not special. This is like, baby Kojiro level skill. It's also crazy that Raiden needs AI to tell him places where a person can't see, it's not a thing that having a supercomputer boosts to a godly level feat.

 

[Chariot190]

The issue is only created when you act like a snob. Just don't. Simple.

Read the profile before asking stuff, that's what they're there for.

For one, speed is not equalized. Beelzebub is 12 times faster, he's going to see them coming.

No he isn't? Raiden instantly matches him with a thought? Ripper Mode is a 10x speed amp? And is permanent if he chooses as seen with Monsoon.
Should be 0.36c, you could easily argue 0.9c even via Sam, we just run with the low end.
doesnt help Raiden has a 26c feat either, we just haven't updated yet.

For two, the weapons are not faster than Beelzebub, even if speed is equalized. It's as simple as following them with his eyes and just dodging or blocking again.

They like, literally on par in Ripper Mode?
And no, follow them how? That's what a blindspot is dude.

Beelzebub's analytical prediction scales to or above Kojiro, who could do literally that when he was a teenager 400 years ago. This is practically childsplay for any relevant sword-fighter.

Yeah, and Raiden's anaylytical prediction scales above that too, like, literally 14 skill stomps over. The equilavent of MGS Goombas, scale like 7 skill stomps above that.

"Blindspot calculated by a supercomputer" means functionally nothing. There are a limited number of blindspots a person can have. Unless the weapons are bending space, or can discover blindspots that literally don't exist, then eventually all the possible bases it can cover will be covered, and Beelzebub will be aware of them.

Not good enough, it means he's getting a sai through the head. Bubz isn't gonna be aware of everything, he isn't omniscient, doesn't help Raiden has smoke bombs, EMP's, holograms, and a whole slew of shit to disorient, and the analytical prediction to easily know exactly where Bubz is gonna be looking, and a supercomputer calculating his weak and blindspots and stuff.

The fact half of this also gives him the not even half second he needs to slip away is also a benefit.

You don't need a supercomputer to attack where an opponent can't see. If you do, then you need to read about how the human (or in this case godly) eye works.

You don't, but it like, definitely helps?

Don't be obtuse.

If he disappears, Beelzebub is just going to blow up the area with vibrations. He's not going to waste time looking for Raiden, all he has to do is just attack wherever he could be, and he can only be in limited places within a range.

And?
Then what, he survives. He has 5 revives.
He doesn't need to assassinate him right away, that ain't how stealth works, it could be hours before Raiden does so, doesn't matter when, the fact is he can and is honestly liable to, do exactly that, and Bubz can't do anything about it.

Fighters lesser than Beelzebub can "layer" their analytical prediction with each passing moment, constantly skill-stomping themselves from a few moments before, and Beelzebub is better than them. This really, really is not special. This is like, baby Kojiro level skill.

And? The literal bottom of the MGS scaling chain, does that, and Raiden is incomparable to them, 14 times over, with every level being a complete incomparable stomp. At least, I legit might be forgetting stuff.

Reminder that Raiden numerous levels below this now, for training, can beat a dude that has teleportation, intangibility, can read minds, can see the future flatout, can also see the past, and uses these constantly at all times to avoid even being touched because he's passively reading the minds of his foes and seeing the future to know exactly what they will do and what will happen, and Raiden like, just kinda skillfucks him. Literally training level, multiple times even, to the point Raiden mentions he did Shadow Moses so many times it's easy.

It's also crazy that Raiden needs AI to tell him places where a person can't see, it's not a thing that having a supercomputer boosts to a godly level feat.

Why are you just like, lying now? He doesn't need a supercomputer for that, show me where it says that? I sure as hell didn't say that, surely you aren't strawmanning right? No, of course not, because that isn't true and saying as much is blatant ignorance, but, the fact he does have a supercomputer, ya know, the things that can calculate billions of things a moment, aiding him, is definitely a benefit, let's not pretend otherwise.

 

[Huesito88]

0.36c actually, Custom Body > Early game, you could argue it would be higher given Sam should be > Early game peak speed (aka 10x, not 2x, which would make custom RM 0.9c), but at minimum it'd be 2x. Raiden can obv get higher via different weapons like the machete.

If those are legit multipliers and those haven't been implemented yet, then those look fine (and yes I also know of the situation on the speed upgrade of Raiden that'll downgrade him because KE can't be FTL)

 

[Chariot190]

If those are legit multipliers and those haven't been implemented yet, then those look fine (and yes I also know of the situation on the speed upgrade of Raiden that'll downgrade because KE can't be FTL)

Not as big of a downgrade, found another feat in the same ballpark thank you pulverizing a fuckton of CNT
Also, no they have been implemented, the only one that hasn't is instead of 2x for Sam, it's 10x.

I asked a lad to check the fight though, but the actual multipliers all accepted, it's why he's up to rel atm as it is and why custom body is "at least 2x", the 2x comes from Custom Body being > Early Body Blade Mode in base as Sam can neg diff you in BM (He can't later on). Buuut, Blade Mode early game is also 10x in some cases, hence the need to check a thing.

 

[azontr]

Was in the middle of working on a response, but for some reason the text box flipped out while I was writing it and I had to delete it all, and I dont feel like writing allat again. So, whenever I feel like debating this is when I debate it. Maybe an hour, maybe never.

 

[Chariot190]

Not seeing any reason why the dude who can become equal in speed with a thought if not 3x quicker, we'll see once I get the clip, would also make the base speed 5x quicker in turn who can also just like, opt for stealth and also can take 5 killing blows giving him ample time to change up his gameplan or land a hit wouldn't just like, do that.

 

[azontr]

Dont get me wrong, most of what you're saying is like, worthless dogshit. I just don't really care to have to rewrite why it's that after my phone f*cked me. Take it as a win, or something. Idk.

 

[Sdjlakjh]

Also in case yall forgot, Beezlebub can passively induce bad luck if you get close to him. So the chances of Raiden winning may get lower

 

[azontr]

Also in case yall forgot, Beezlebub can passively induce bad luck if you get close to him. So the chances of Raiden winning may get lower

That's not even close to being close to combat applicable. Raiden finna trip his shoelaces or something.

 

[Sdjlakjh]

Forgot to bump this