[R2M4] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Haruka vs Cinner

[Rayfire]

Maybe but she’d have to work hard to get that deep a hit on him and it’s not like organ damage would be the end with his endurance. He’s taken having his stomach sliced open and used that as motivation to lock in and win the fight. And what’s ultimate darkness strike? If it’s just an explosion of darkness, that sounds like something Cinner has the durability to tank and his heat aura should mitigate damage a bit by burning it away. He can straight up nullify other people’s aura in verse, so if we’re doing any sort of equalization like magic to ki we’re good. Then again magic also exists in verse so maybe nullification won’t come into play and the aura just has to carry.

Already explained the ultimate darkness strike above ^ Haruka can also unleash multiple of them at once if she was desperate, since she switched her scythe back to it's regular form (One blade) before she made that giant crater with shizu, so if she took cinner more seriously, this could help her deal even more damage, especially if she used nullify to temporarily disable lifeline so that cinner is going hands-only, which i think could spell the end for him, since his regeneration seems more limited in overtime regards if he can't regenerate organs like haruka can. So she might just be able to outlast him or sumthin

I’m not sure if I would call Cinner’s experience/skill edge slight. He has a plethora of feats like beating Kaint who has plenty on his own page and mastering Pure Form which itself is a big achievement especially considering he did it over the course of an intense battle. He had to learn all those new abilities and utilize them against someone with his weapon, unique abilities like energy sapping, and his own stuff like acrobatics and analytical prediction. I was also thinking Rinser would have some projectiles in the form of earth coating his staff that could be fired off. And correct me if this is illegal Vene, but I elaborated more and added a feat from Cinner vs Rinser where he uses his air pulling and acrobatics to trick Rinser into predicting an attack and dodging only for Cinner to change direction midair and hit him. Haruka definitely is impressive beating monsters and people with high tier hax and acrobatics, but Cinner has been through it.

I moreso meant that haruka is also decent and everything cinner has done, like the prediction thing as i've mentioned earlier, but it does sound like he has an edge here. On prediction Haruka can predict attacks pretty easily too, even when shizu tried to surprise her by doing something different, it was stated that she didn't look one bit surprised, meaning haruka secretly saw it coming, she just let it hit her, once again to lure shizu in. Shown here, although i forgor to include the part where shizu lands her hit lol. She was only caught off a guard a moment later, because she didn't think shizu would know about nullify.

So (Assuming venefica does consider the rinser feat legal) Haruka might not fall for something like that, depending on how the fight goes. Since she's shown to be used to people who try to one-up her strategy-wise with the shizu fight, Which is why Haruka is pulling Genius Battle Intelligence overall for these reasons. Cinner is just strategising and predicting on a somewhat more complex level, but i don't think it's something haruka couldn't get used to, either.

Actually, he fought Fetter who used his chains to wrap people just like that. Though there he could just burn them away by the time he tapped into Pure Form, he was fighting Fetter before that and weaving around a bit. Haruka does have a LS advantage, but again heat aura should at least be able to threaten her shadows and I imagine a grab would be a bit choreographed to Cinner’s air sensing. Also he could use his aura’s air pulling to throw Haruka slightly off balance and make it easier to dodge the tendrils and engage. If they’re like Kaneki’s Kagune where there’s 4 tentacles, he should have it covered given he’s reacted to Streak’s Death Call which sends out 3 orbs that phase through one’s guard with his extension. Strong Leap could be a get out of jail free card.

Fair, though it might be able to distract cinner potentially? idk

And if she has a bare minimum Class G LS, Cinner is over a hundred times stronger than her since Pure Form Mastery should scale to/above High end 4th key Cinner. Also how exactly is Haruka supposed to know about Cinner’s ESP? This isn’t a JJK fight where we’re explaining powers, sensory abilities are very subtle. It would be a massive handicap if she managed to take it, but then Cinner still has Lifeline and all his other abilities and is still very competent in a fight. Like said he fought people like Kaint and Fetter before he even realized the form once plus the giants.

Haruka is a very quiet, but observant person, so i doubt she'd just overlook cinner predicting her moves like she would also be trying to do. She also knew how shizu was adapting to and (Attempting to) predict her movements, so if cinner is using ESP, Haruka would know.

Well, i wouldn't say she'd be bare minimum. That's why i put her as 'Likely Class T' Because of her being able to control mountain-level power without it growing unstable (I need to make LS feats in bakuhatsu more clear lol)

 

[Rayfire]

WaitaminuteWaitaminuteWaitaminuteijustgotthebestideaever

Weaknesses: It takes a lot for him to get entirely serious, especially in the excitement of a battle. An Object Bond User’s bonded item being destroyed disables the user as a part of them is lost, usually unconsciousness follows

If haruka used nullify to disable cinners' lifeline, AKA His bonded item, wouldn't that, like, knock him out? Since a part of him is gone? Although, that's just a theory. A game theory!!!

 

[MintyBoi1]

Already explained the ultimate darkness strike above ^ Haruka can also unleash multiple of them at once if she was desperate, since she switched her scythe back to it's regular form (One blade) before she made that giant crater with shizu, so if she took cinner more seriously, this could help her deal even more damage, especially if she used nullify to temporarily disable lifeline so that cinner is going hands-only, which i think could spell the end for him, since his regeneration seems more limited in overtime regards if he can't regenerate organs like haruka can. So she might just be able to outlast him or sumthin

I moreso meant that haruka is also decent and everything cinner has done, like the prediction thing as i've mentioned earlier, but it does sound like he has an edge here. On prediction Haruka can predict attacks pretty easily too, even when shizu tried to surprise her by doing something different, it was stated that she didn't look one bit surprised, meaning haruka secretly saw it coming, she just let it hit her, once again to lure shizu in. Shown here, although i forgor to include the part where shizu lands her hit lol. She was only caught off a guard a moment later, because she didn't think shizu would know about nullify.

So (Assuming venefica does consider the rinser feat legal) Haruka might not fall for something like that, depending on how the fight goes. Since she's shown to be used to people who try to one-up her strategy-wise with the shizu fight, Which is why Haruka is pulling Genius Battle Intelligence overall for these reasons. Cinner is just strategising and predicting on a somewhat more complex level, but i don't think it's something haruka couldn't get used to, either.

Fair, though it might be able to distract cinner potentially? idk

Haruka is a very quiet, but observant person, so i doubt she'd just overlook cinner predicting her moves like she would also be trying to do. She also knew how shizu was adapting to and (Attempting to) predict her movements, so if cinner is using ESP, Haruka would know.

Well, i wouldn't say she'd be bare minimum. That's why i put her as 'Likely Class T' Because of her being able to control mountain-level power without it growing unstable (I need to make LS feats in bakuhatsu more clear lol)

So it is an explosion? If that’s the case and the range is wide as you suggest, I suppose Cinner’s only option is to tank and mitigate the damage with his aura like I said earlier. Cinner can regen organs, it’d just take hours but he’s fought for days with sustained battle injuries. Then again he’d be getting nuked here and if he’s without his defense that’ll be rough. Still, unless the blasts are massively above Haruka’s normal AP (1.7x C) we’re good.

Now that I think, this whole time Shizu has been a measuring stick. What exactly is her skill level since Haruka beating her is her best feat that’s been shown? Maybe she could adapt, but that adaptation is also apart of Cinner’s thing with his flexible battle strategies. He goes from defending to attacking on the go like how he forced his way into Kernel’s zone by blocking until he forced Kernel to shoot a shot that finally overheated his rifle. And there’s Dice who could swap weapons to stuff Cinner hadn’t seen like the flail which had wind blasts strong enough to send him above the clouds and a copied version of Streak’s scythe with the dura negging soul powers and all.

Maybe if he gets too caught up blocking it but I think he just applies some heat and smacks them away or uses his movement options to bypass them.

That’s fair, but I still don’t know how she’d make the assessment he has extrasensory abilities granted by an enhanced state of mind.

Yeah, an established value would be nice since Cinner is just a bit away from Class T himself. I’ve thought up upping him but then I’d need to upgrade it by a few times. But then again he went from city to mountain/island so perhaps we could after the tournament.

WaitaminuteWaitaminuteWaitaminuteijustgotthebestideaever

Weaknesses: It takes a lot for him to get entirely serious, especially in the excitement of a battle. An Object Bond User’s bonded item being destroyed disables the user as a part of them is lost, usually unconsciousness follows

If haruka used nullify to disable cinners' lifeline, AKA His bonded item, wouldn't that, like, knock him out? Since a part of him is gone? Although, that's just a theory. A game theory!!!

When I put destroyed, I imagine that thing is disintegrated, beyond recovery. At that point the life force left in the item is completely gone and leaked out. So that likely isn’t working but it would be a creative way to end the fight.

 

[Rayfire]

So it is an explosion? If that’s the case and the range is wide as you suggest, I suppose Cinner’s only option is to tank and mitigate the damage with his aura like I said earlier. Cinner can regen organs, it’d just take hours but he’s fought for days with sustained battle injuries. Then again he’d be getting nuked here and if he’s without his defense that’ll be rough. Still, unless the blasts are massively above Haruka’s normal AP (1.7x C) we’re good.

It’s obviously not enough to oneshot, but bear in mind that Haruka can do a lot of them at once since her scythe can transform to have multiple blades, and possibly more than just 3 considering she was holding back against Shizu

Now that I think, this whole time Shizu has been a measuring stick. What exactly is her skill level since Haruka beating her is her best feat that’s been shown? Maybe she could adapt, but that adaptation is also apart of Cinner’s thing with his flexible battle strategies. He goes from defending to attacking on the go like how he forced his way into Kernel’s zone by blocking until he forced Kernel to shoot a shot that finally overheated his rifle. And there’s Dice who could swap weapons to stuff Cinner hadn’t seen like the flail which had wind blasts strong enough to send him above the clouds and a copied version of Streak’s scythe with the dura negging soul powers and all.

I’m mentioning Shizu a lot since the fight between her and Haruka was the only time the latter has had significant screen time so far, lol, but I’ll answer. Shizu is a bit of a goofball, almost like the main funny character, but when she’s serious, she’s shown some insane skill in her own right. She evaded kedron’s earth magic danmaku, which, basically, would give even hardcore touhou players nightmares, and while she was super weak before Asuna showed up and skyrocketed her XP through doing quests she couldn’t do herself, she definitely has a lot of experience, which equates to some pretty insane skill in the world she lives in. Basically, she can do stuff that even extremely skilled irl humans have next to no chance of doing, and Haruka out-skills her effortlessly.

If they both can adapt, that also puts them on equal footing, therefore, if the fight goes on long enough, then equal skill ¯\(ツ)/¯

That’s fair, but I still don’t know how she’d make the assessment he has extrasensory abilities granted by an enhanced state of mind.

Well, I mean, she has genius intelligence for a good reason…

When I put destroyed, I imagine that thing is disintegrated, beyond recovery. At that point the life force left in the item is completely gone and leaked out. So that likely isn’t working but it would be a creative way to end the fight.

Ah, okay, but if that thing needs life force to work, and since nullify will just stop all its functions, wouldn’t that do the same thing? At least for the 30 second duration it puts on it’s targets and specific power/skill, which, in this case, would be his item

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Ah, okay, but if that thing needs life force to work, and since nullify will just stop all its functions, wouldn’t that do the same thing? At least for the 30 second duration it puts on it’s targets and specific power/skill, which, in this case, would be his item

How can a physical object be made null like that? That’s not power nullification that’s straight existence erasure lol

 

[Rayfire]

How can a physical object be made null like that? That’s not power nullification that’s straight existence erasure lol

Oh yeah, that makes no sense, I more so meant that it could maybe disable life force as well since it’s a part of the object she’s trying to nullify? Unless minty corrects me

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Oh yeah, that makes no sense, I more so meant that it could maybe disable life force as well since it’s a part of the object she’s trying to nullify? Unless minty corrects me

Perhaps that’s possible, I could see her nullifying an energy required to make lifeline function properly, of course I don’t know as much as you or Minty does

 

[Rayfire]

Perhaps that’s possible, I could see her nullifying an energy required to make lifeline function properly, of course I don’t know as much as you or Minty does

Nullify’s whole thing is disabling a specific skill, or item, in this case, from being used for a short period. Most of Cinners’ abilities rely on the item. It might not get rid of the life force (Which would be a huge edge for Haruka) but it’s still very useful here nonetheless.

 

[Rayfire]

^ Although, if Haruka figured out that it’s another thing Cinner relies on, which she possibly could given her intelligence, then she could probably use nullify on that and knock him out, which would give Haruka a huge opening, so there’s that. Ordinarily, she can only disable one ability a time, but I think both nullifying the item and life force should be a pretty big advantage for Haruka, and probably a wincon even if just nullifying the item doesn’t also nullify the life force.

 

[MintyBoi1]

It’s obviously not enough to oneshot, but bear in mind that Haruka can do a lot of them at once since her scythe can transform to have multiple blades, and possibly more than just 3 considering she was holding back against Shizu

I’m mentioning Shizu a lot since the fight between her and Haruka was the only time the latter has had significant screen time so far, lol, but I’ll answer. Shizu is a bit of a goofball, almost like the main funny character, but when she’s serious, she’s shown some insane skill in her own right. She evaded kedron’s earth magic danmaku, which, basically, would give even hardcore touhou players nightmares, and while she was super weak before Asuna showed up and skyrocketed her XP through doing quests she couldn’t do herself, she definitely has a lot of experience, which equates to some pretty insane skill in the world she lives in. Basically, she can do stuff that even extremely skilled irl humans have next to no chance of doing, and Haruka out-skills her effortlessly.

If they both can adapt, that also puts them on equal footing, therefore, if the fight goes on long enough, then equal skill ¯\(ツ)/¯

Well, I mean, she has genius intelligence for a good reason…

Ah, okay, but if that thing needs life force to work, and since nullify will just stop all its functions, wouldn’t that do the same thing? At least for the 30 second duration it puts on it’s targets and specific power/skill, which, in this case, would be his item

I see, then yeah that’s something to worry about but like said not an end all be all.

So she’s beyond normal human, Cinner can relate. But that definitely clears things up more.

I mean it just seems like a stretch imo, people can predict without extraordinary powers. Cinner has kinda done it before with Kernel, just not to the point of precognition. There’s genius and then prophet.

Object Bond just enhances the weapons physical capabilities way beyond normal. Without that, Cinner can still funnel his ki into it and use the extension plus temperature manip and levitation and that kinda stuff. Lifeline’s durability would just be lowered to some extent. It’s still metal, so it’s not like it’d break instantly, but 30 seconds of lowered durability when Cinner uses it to block a lot would be troublesome.

^ Although, if Haruka figured out that it’s another thing Cinner relies on, which she possibly could given her intelligence, then she could probably use nullify on that and knock him out, which would give Haruka a huge opening, so there’s that. Ordinarily, she can only disable one ability a time, but I think both nullifying the item and life force should be a pretty big advantage for Haruka, and probably a wincon even if just nullifying the item doesn’t also nullify the life force.

If she does disable the whole staff, I imagine Cinner is just a bit jammed. I don’t think he’d be unconscious since Lifeline is still there. It’s like when your brain is kinda shut down so you can’t feel truly motivated, but you’re still awake and doing stuff. It’s just empty. And Cinner still has his martial arts, acrobatics, levitation, heat aura, and sensory abilities to defend himself even if he is primarily a weapon master. He’s basically Robin, you always see him with the staff on him but he’s not afraid to start fighting hand to hand.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

This has been a good one, but let’s see about a conclusion to this bout soon please so we can hit the semis

 

[MintyBoi1]

I’m leaning Cinner for his counters to Haruka’s abilities, overall skill/experience advantage, and too many useful abilities for her to effectively nullify her way to victory. It just seems he’s seen a lot of her kit and the stuff he hasn’t can be overcome eventually like the Shadow Nuke. Haruka would have to really stall him with portals and nullification before he gets into her zone and lands a flurry of blows. It also seems Haruka would try disabling Lifeline only for Cinner to last with other abilities or she tries shutting off the life force funneling specifically and only gets the durability lower which I think would just downscale Lifeline a bit below Cinner at worst since it’ll just be a normal weapon not hardened by his will. But I’ll see if any other opinions roll in before voting.

 

[Rayfire]

Object Bond just enhances the weapons physical capabilities way beyond normal. Without that, Cinner can still funnel his ki into it and use the extension plus temperature manip and levitation and that kinda stuff. Lifeline’s durability would just be lowered to some extent. It’s still metal, so it’s not like it’d break instantly, but 30 seconds of lowered durability when Cinner uses it to block a lot would be troublesome.

Considering Haruka can do a lot of stuff from a distance (And can easily do that with a quick shadow portal) If that lowers lifeline’s durability, then I think that’s another edge Haruka would get here. Especially since once she learns that’s his source of power, she’ll 100% be targeting it.

If she does disable the whole staff, I imagine Cinner is just a bit jammed. I don’t think he’d be unconscious since Lifeline is still there. It’s like when your brain is kinda shut down so you can’t feel truly motivated, but you’re still awake and doing stuff. It’s just empty. And Cinner still has his martial arts, acrobatics, levitation, heat aura, and sensory abilities to defend himself even if he is primarily a weapon master. He’s basically Robin, you always see him with the staff on him but he’s not afraid to start fighting hand to hand.

I see, but once that happens, then he’d be forced to fight bare-handed, which haruka’s weapon generally counters (Scythes > Hands) And haruka’s more destructive attacks like ultimate darkness strike is something that esp wouldn’t really help him in, since I don’t think he’d get out of the way in time to dodge things like that. Of course, Haruka has superhuman precision, and considering her own skill and prediction, it could really help her out against the ESP, even if she’s still not guaranteed to land a hit every time. It’s not outright precognition, after all.

I’m leaning Cinner for his counters to Haruka’s abilities, overall skill/experience advantage, and too many useful abilities for her to effectively nullify her way to victory. It just seems he’s seen a lot of her kit and the stuff he hasn’t can be overcome eventually like the Shadow Nuke. Haruka would have to really stall him with portals and nullification before he gets into her zone and lands a flurry of blows. It also seems Haruka would try disabling Lifeline only for Cinner to last with other abilities or she tries shutting off the life force funneling specifically and only gets the durability lower which I think would just downscale Lifeline a bit below Cinner at worst since it’ll just be a normal weapon not hardened by his will. But I’ll see if any other opinions roll in before voting

The Skill advantage I agree with, but I’m not sure what you mean when Cinner has ‘Too many useful ability for her to nullify’. If the fight goes on long enough, cinners regeneration won’t save his organs. Even if the fight goes on for days on end, considering that Haruka can attack from a distance, has incredible precision, and that the very weapon she uses can pierce bodies, and y’know, organs, once she gets enough hits in, I feel like Haruka will just be able to decapitate him and be done with it, since his regeneration is a lot more limited than hers.

^ Nullify would also leave him a sitting duck for Haruka to pull this off

Haruka can also tank his temperature manipulation. Tanking the heat of lightning is no joke

Haruka’s Reactive Evolution can also let her adapt to cinners’ tactics and skill, and can also up her AP by a few times (No canon value yet, but I’d say 3-4x) So, If the fight goes on long enough, which by the looks of things, it will, then Haruka will have an even bigger AP advantage, and comparable, if not greater adaptation given that she can improve her AP.

And a bajillion other things

And, not only that, but we haven’t really discuss how Cinner would even get past haruka’s regeneration, especially on an AP disadvantage (585 Megatons > 340 Megatons) Meaning that he cannot even kill Haruka. You could say that he could win in other ways, like knockout or incap, But Haruka can get herself out of any sticky situation or restraint through a quick shadow portal, and knocking Haruka out, as an adventurer that has likely seen a lot of battle and is hardened to endure things exactly that, and the AP disadvantage Cinner has, both of those things are not feasible for him.

So, considering that Haruka can lower his dura with nullify apparently, and the fact that she’s the one pulling out most of the advantages, and has multiple wincons:

• Outright Killing (Slicing and cinner enough to bypass his regen)
• Incap (Above if Haruka is feeling nice ^)
• KO
• BFR (Through tricking him into walking into a shadow portal. Only feasible once Haruka adapts through RE)
• Etc

Imma still leaning haruka here

 

[Javenplayz253]

Leaning Haruka but not voting

 

[MintyBoi1]

Considering Haruka can do a lot of stuff from a distance (And can easily do that with a quick shadow portal) If that lowers lifeline’s durability, then I think that’s another edge Haruka would get here. Especially since once she learns that’s his source of power, she’ll 100% be targeting it.

I see, but once that happens, then he’d be forced to fight bare-handed, which haruka’s weapon generally counters (Scythes > Hands) And haruka’s more destructive attacks like ultimate darkness strike is something that esp wouldn’t really help him in, since I don’t think he’d get out of the way in time to dodge things like that. Of course, Haruka has superhuman precision, and considering her own skill and prediction, it could really help her out against the ESP, even if she’s still not guaranteed to land a hit every time. It’s not outright precognition, after all.

The Skill advantage I agree with, but I’m not sure what you mean when Cinner has ‘Too many useful ability for her to nullify’. If the fight goes on long enough, cinners regeneration won’t save his organs. Even if the fight goes on for days on end, considering that Haruka can attack from a distance, has incredible precision, and that the very weapon she uses can pierce bodies, and y’know, organs, once she gets enough hits in, I feel like Haruka will just be able to decapitate him and be done with it, since his regeneration is a lot more limited than hers.

^ Nullify would also leave him a sitting duck for Haruka to pull this off

Haruka can also tank his temperature manipulation. Tanking the heat of lightning is no joke

Haruka’s Reactive Evolution can also let her adapt to cinners’ tactics and skill, and can also up her AP by a few times (No canon value yet, but I’d say 3-4x) So, If the fight goes on long enough, which by the looks of things, it will, then Haruka will have an even bigger AP advantage, and comparable, if not greater adaptation given that she can improve her AP.

And a bajillion other things

And, not only that, but we haven’t really discuss how Cinner would even get past haruka’s regeneration, especially on an AP disadvantage (585 Megatons > 340 Megatons) Meaning that he cannot even kill Haruka. You could say that he could win in other ways, like knockout or incap, But Haruka can get herself out of any sticky situation or restraint through a quick shadow portal, and knocking Haruka out, as an adventurer that has likely seen a lot of battle and is hardened to endure things exactly that, and the AP disadvantage Cinner has, both of those things are not feasible for him.

So, considering that Haruka can lower his dura with nullify apparently, and the fact that she’s the one pulling out most of the advantages, and has multiple wincons:

• Outright Killing (Slicing and cinner enough to bypass his regen)
• Incap (Above if Haruka is feeling nice ^)
• KO
• BFR (Through tricking him into walking into a shadow portal. Only feasible once Haruka adapts through RE)
• Etc

Imma still leaning haruka here

I mean it’s not like having Lifeline no longer scaling above his durability is gonna leave him defenseless. He still maintains his other advantages, Haruka already has a slight AP edge, lowering the staff’s durability is just gonna make things a little bit harder. And he can catch up with her teleporting away unless she’s going like kilometers with his speed and rapid movement.

Cinner could still predict her moves and weave her like how Mirio did Overhaul for 5 straight minutes. Just having a weapon isn’t gonna be enough to win otherwise martial arts would be pointless. He could potentially go for some grapples or land a few good hits before Lifeline is usable again. He should just keep it on him once it’s disabled, so once he figures out how Haruka’s disabling works, he’s gonna be able to work around it and pull out the stick as soon as he can again. You’re right Cinner doesn’t have full on precog or a way to escape the AOE but like I said his heat aura could burn away a bit of the darkness and help him out. And Haruka’s feat of precision should be easy to compare to Kernel since he’s a trained sniper with an advanced rifle normal soldiers couldn’t get their hands on. Cinner out predicted a mirror of himself with unique abilities and his own acrobatics, he should be able to do the same to Haruka to a point.

I’m hard pressed to say Cinner will be decapitated just because Lifeline or ESP got taken away. The dude has fought two highly capable scythe users who could somewhat match his skill, a prodigal assassin with chakrams that cut down to the organs, a guy with a giant circular saw on his hand that could cut entire buildings apart, etc. Haruka has to cut Cinner to bits if she wants to win but I don’t think that’ll happen before he gets the knockout with Metal Crush, Solid Crash, or the likes. He also has Metal Whirlwind to parry the scythe and potentially some darkness. And it’s not like his own regen is a non factor, he can heal bone damage over the course of a fight, his wounds will be healing which’ll make it way harder for Haruka to wear him down for the finish.

I really don’t get this nullification agenda you’re pushing, she can disable one thing at a time while Cinner has a whole arsenal of abilities to help him out here. You haven’t put any counters for his heat aura, even if Haruka can take it, it can help defend from her attacks. And air pulling is still valid depending on the LS values being used plus Cinner can rush Haruka while simultaneously pulling her in.

Cinner also has Accelerated Development which let him pick up a weapon he never used in a matter of days and at the same time grow in strength by a few AP tiers. He can boost his own stats via training, and given fighting can be seen as a kind of training, he potentially could also grow if you really think this fight takes days. Both have adaptation as a part of their thing.

Cinner can give Haruka a concussion which when added up with other injuries can lead to severe brain damage. And if set up properly Metal Crush could also deal severe brain damage which low-mid regen doesn’t cover. Haruka has a very negligible AP advantage, she isn’t just gonna tank his attacks. And at some point, portals aren’t gonna stop Cinner from getting the drop on her. He can sense her movements afterall. And how exactly do you endure knocked out, that’s an oxymoron.

She can’t lower Cinner’s durability, she can just potentially lower Lifeline’s durability to no longer scale above Cinner given she finds out how Object Bond works. And I still don’t think her scythe is gonna be enough to clutch out the win. Cinner has the win cons of brain damage into a combo that can kill Haruka and a knockout or incap if he pins her since LS is still iffy here. And there’s no way she tricks him into a portal when he’s gonna see her spamming and will be spending a large portion of the fight off the ground which will make it far harder for Haruka to aim.

 

[Rayfire]

I mean it’s not like having Lifeline no longer scaling above his durability is gonna leave him defenseless. He still maintains his other advantages, Haruka already has a slight AP edge, lowering the staff’s durability is just gonna make things a little bit harder. And he can catch up with her teleporting away unless she’s going like kilometers with his speed and rapid movement.

Haruka can fight comfortably from hundreds of kilometres away, so yeah, she’d definitely be out of reach. Disabling lifeline is still a huge advantage though, since haruka can literally turn off most of his abilities whenever she wants basically. I feel like this is being downplayed

Cinner could still predict her moves and weave her like how Mirio did Overhaul for 5 straight minutes. Just having a weapon isn’t gonna be enough to win otherwise martial arts would be pointless. He could potentially go for some grapples or land a few good hits before Lifeline is usable again. He should just keep it on him once it’s disabled, so once he figures out how Haruka’s disabling works, he’s gonna be able to work around it and pull out the stick as soon as he can again. You’re right Cinner doesn’t have full on precog or a way to escape the AOE but like I said his heat aura could burn away a bit of the darkness and help him out. And Haruka’s feat of precision should be easy to compare to Kernel since he’s a trained sniper with an advanced rifle normal soldiers couldn’t get their hands on. Cinner out predicted a mirror of himself with unique abilities and his own acrobatics, he should be able to do the same to Haruka to a point.

All of the prediction abilities Cinner has are great and all, but haruka’s reactive evolution I definitely feel should be able to at least match him as well. There’s nothing said about reactive evolution on dinners’ profile. Even if he did have it, that would just put them on equal footing; therefore equal skill.

I really don’t get this nullification thing, she can disable one thing at a time while Cinner has a whole arsenal of abilities to help him out here. You haven’t put any counters for his heat aura, even if Haruka can take it can help defend from her attacks. And air pulling is still valid depending on the LS values being used plus Cinner can rush Haruka while simultaneously pulling her in.

She doesn’t need to disable or counter it. As I’ve mentioned before, she can tank the heat of lightning, which is over twice as hot as the heat aura (50,000 Celsius > 24,000 Celsius) so haruka will hardly notice it.

Haruka can always shadow portal out of it, or if that’s not an option for some reason, she always has absolute defence to simply wait out the air pulling.

I meant that haruka can use nullify on dinners’ item, which would in turn disable most of his abilities as a result, which is why I brought up that it might get rid of the life force too.

Cinner also has Accelerated Development which let him pick up a weapon he never used in a matter of days and at the same time grow in strength by a few AP tiers. He can boost his own stats via training, and given fighting can be seen as a kind of training, he potentially could also grow if you really think this fight takes days. Both have adaptation as a part of their thing.

Cinner is far slower in that regard, though. Adventurers like Asuna can use RE to their full in a matter of minutes (Vol 1 Chap 3) And neither of them can go out of High 7-A cause thread rules anyway

Cinner can give Haruka a concussion which when added up with other injuries can lead to severe brain damage. And if set up properly Metal Crush could also deal severe brain damage which low-mid regen doesn’t cover. Haruka has a very negligible AP advantage, she isn’t just gonna tank his attacks. And at some point, portals aren’t gonna stop Cinner from getting the drop on her. He can sense her movements afterall. And how exactly do you endure knocked out, that’s an oxymoron.

I meant more so that being knocked out is something that probably wouldn’t work on adventurers like haruka, considering her experience in the field as well as supernatural willpower.

He can’t use metal crush if lifeline is disabled. And the fact that he has to leap up is gonna give haruka an opportunity to dodge, and it also hinges on the fact that he’s within range to do it, which haruka wont give him once she learns his range is very limited.

She can’t lower Cinner’s durability, she can just potentially lower Lifeline’s durability to no longer scale above Cinner given she finds out how Object Bond works. And I still don’t think her scythe is gonna be enough to clutch out the win. Cinner has the win cons of brain damage into a combo that can kill Haruka and a knockout or incap if he pins her since LS is still iffy here. And there’s no way she tricks him into a portal when he’s gonna see her spamming and will be spending a large portion of the fight off the ground which will make it far harder for Haruka to aim.

That’s what I was trying to say. Lifelines lowered dura and her RE could allow haruka to destroy it, which is prolly another wincon here. I’ve already mentioned that haruka can get out of any LS shenanigans (We are assuming Cinner can actually restrain her when she’s prolly class T) with a quick shadow portal.

I meant more so that haruka’s scythe is something that would be perfect for organ damage, which Cinner struggles to regenerate, and gives her an edge as a result

Haruka operates just as fine in the air, as shown in her fight with shizu, and that RE of hers, once she uses it to it’s full, she’ll be able to adapt to cinners’ movements and skill. He can’t adapt as fast, you’ve literally mentioned it takes days for him to do the same thing, which is why I believe haruka could potentially do this once she adapts herself, and even more so when Cinner has no more lifeline, which would make BFRing him easier

 

[Rayfire]

She doesn’t need to disable or counter it. As I’ve mentioned before, she can tank the heat of lightning, which is over twice as hot as the heat aura (50,000 Celsius > 24,000 Celsius) so haruka will hardly notice it.

^ Haruka and most other adventurers also have a partial resistance to elemental manip, which includes fire, on top of this, making it even less likely she’d even notice it, let alone be distracted by it

 

[MintyBoi1]

Haruka can fight comfortably from hundreds of kilometres away, so yeah, she’d definitely be out of reach. Disabling lifeline is still a huge advantage though, since haruka can literally turn off most of his abilities whenever she wants basically. I feel like this is being downplayed

All of the prediction abilities Cinner has are great and all, but haruka’s reactive evolution I definitely feel should be able to at least match him as well. There’s nothing said about reactive evolution on dinners’ profile. Even if he did have it, that would just put them on equal footing; therefore equal skill.

She doesn’t need to disable or counter it. As I’ve mentioned before, she can tank the heat of lightning, which is over twice as hot as the heat aura (50,000 Celsius > 24,000 Celsius) so haruka will hardly notice it.

Haruka can always shadow portal out of it, or if that’s not an option for some reason, she always has absolute defence to simply wait out the air pulling.

I meant that haruka can use nullify on dinners’ item, which would in turn disable most of his abilities as a result, which is why I brought up that it might get rid of the life force too.

Cinner is far slower in that regard, though. Adventurers like Asuna can use RE to their full in a matter of minutes (Vol 1 Chap 3) And neither of them can go out of High 7-A cause thread rules anyway

I meant more so that being knocked out is something that probably wouldn’t work on adventurers like haruka, considering her experience in the field as well as supernatural willpower.

He can’t use metal crush if lifeline is disabled. And the fact that he has to leap up is gonna give haruka an opportunity to dodge, and it also hinges on the fact that he’s within range to do it, which haruka wont give him once she learns his range is very limited.


That’s what I was trying to say. Lifelines lowered dura and her RE could allow haruka to destroy it, which is prolly another wincon here. I’ve already mentioned that haruka can get out of any LS shenanigans (We are assuming Cinner can actually restrain her when she’s prolly class T) with a quick shadow portal.

I meant more so that haruka’s scythe is something that would be perfect for organ damage, which Cinner struggles to regenerate, and gives her an edge as a result

Haruka operates just as fine in the air, as shown in her fight with shizu, and that RE of hers, once she uses it to it’s full, she’ll be able to adapt to cinners’ movements and skill. He can’t adapt as fast, you’ve literally mentioned it takes days for him to do the same thing, which is why I believe haruka could potentially do this once she adapts herself, and even more so when Cinner has no more lifeline, which would make BFRing him easier

And how exactly is she gonna land a hit from hundreds of kilometers away? At that point she’s gonna be looking silly while Cinner avoids her stuff and tracks her down. I think you’re overhyping this Lifeline thing, it’s not like she’s turning off his entire ki arsenal. And the weapon is still there, it just won’t extend. Either that or she turns off the Object Bond and it can extend but it just scales to Cinner instead. Either way, nothing huge I’m seeing here.

Ain’t no way you called him Dinner but AD still lets Cinner improve his abilities at a rapid rate as well. And I don’t see how she’s Haruka is gonna be on an equal skill level with Cinner. What feats does Haruka have to put it on that tier? Beating Shizu doesn’t seem like enough justification.

But what about her attacks being mitigated by the heat and air pulling? And Cinner’s aura is literally the exact temperature of lightning I’ve said this. So Haruka might actually start succumbing after prolonged exposure. I don’t know if she can reliably portal away from a rushing Cinner while being pulled. Imagine you’re in front of a speeding bullet and then someone pushes you into it, are you dodging it or are you getting shot? If she tries waiting it out, she’ll have to hope Cinner stops attacking or doesn’t just feint her into lowering her guard and getting hit like he did Rinser. I still don’t know if we can count Lifeline the item entirely as a skill, like Venefica said that’s not power nullification.

So Haruka can go from MCB to Large Town Level in 3 days? And that’s a good point, both have a cap so it barely even matters anyway. And of course we’re assuming this fight lasts long enough for that to happen before Cinner gives Haruka CTE and gets the win.

That still makes absolutely no sense, even someone with Supernatural Willpower can be knocked out with enough force and repetition. If Haruka tries dodging Metal Crush Cinner can always propel himself with jumping off the air making himself move faster than her or go for a wider move like a horizontal swipe. And of course he already has a mobility advantage it seems besides portals so we have to be a bit generous to Haruka to assume she dodges. And once again besides the Nuke, Haruka has little ways of harming Cinner outside of his range. Plus her scythe is only extended melee range, so her trying to decapitate him like you said works against her. She either sticks close and gets beaten out or stays back and gets rushed down by Cinner who’d dodge and block most of her attacks.

Again, 1.7x AP difference and the staff is a strong metal. You’re really flip flopping on this LS thing too, so I was just making use of that uncertain value. And why would Cinner let her escape with a portal when he knows she’s gonna try pulling that once she’s caught? He’s gonna put the staff to her neck and crush her windpipe the second she tries getting away with a portal.

Haruka’s scythe still doesn’t give her an edge because Cinner has fought two likely more skilled/experienced scythe users and has his own skill scaling above them. She needs to be able to land a hit that deals organ damage for that to be an advantage and to be able to capitalize once she does before Cinner claps back.

You literally said earlier you weren’t gonna say Haruka could outright match Cinner in acrobatics. It seems like Cinner’s constant direction shifting gives him a clear edge there especially once he’s adapted to Haruka’s strategies. And you’re comparing matching someone with a skill/acrobatics advantage to matching a prodigy with talent above most others in a weapon you’ve never used before. Just because it took days in that instance doesn’t mean it will here. I feel like you’re trying to make Haruka Garou here when she hasn’t even seen anyone on Cinner’s skill level before let alone fought them. And once again her nullification only lasts 30 seconds, things are not gonna change that quickly.

^ Haruka and most other adventurers also have a partial resistance to elemental manip, which includes fire, on top of this, making it even less likely she’d even notice it, let alone be distracted by it

Again, Cinner has 50,000 degree attacks and aura so at a certain point she may be pained by it.

 

[MintyBoi1]

• Power Nullification (Via “Negate” Skill. Can use this to prevent the usage of a skill that an opponent is currently using, such as using it to disable a forcefield, stop an attack from reaching her, etc. However, this has a cooldown, and cannot be spammed.)

This doesn’t even say she can turn off whole power systems, just something being currently used like the extension plus it has a cooldown. You’re making it sound like Haruka nullifies Lifeline and immediately gains an upper hand in 30 seconds and just nullifies him again when that’s contradicted by the description.

 

[Rayfire]

• Power Nullification (Via “Negate” Skill. Can use this to prevent the usage of a skill that an opponent is currently using, such as using it to disable a forcefield, stop an attack from reaching her, etc. However, this has a cooldown, and cannot be spammed.)

This doesn’t even say she can turn off whole power systems, just something being currently used like the extension plus it has a cooldown. You’re making it sound like Haruka nullifies Lifeline and immediately gains an upper hand in 30 seconds and just nullifies him again when that’s contradicted by the description.

Busy typing but i should clear something up

Since lifeline is an individual source of power, if haruka uses nullify on it, my thought process is that since it acts as a sort of skill by giving cinner power, it will end up disabling the lifeline itself, therefore, cinner will become a sitting duck. I never said it could turn off whole power systems, but in this case lifeline is a huge opening for haruka to use nullify on it. Even if it doesn't work for some reason, once she learns what life force itself is (Which she probably could, she's genius level intelligence for a reason) That would be just as good of an edge here.

 

[MintyBoi1]

Busy typing but i should clear something up

Since lifeline is an individual source of power, if haruka uses nullify on it, my thought process is that since it acts as a sort of skill by giving cinner power, it will end up disabling the lifeline itself, therefore, cinner will become a sitting duck. I never said it could turn off whole power systems, but in this case lifeline is a huge opening for haruka to use nullify on it. Even if it doesn't work for some reason, once she learns what life force itself is (Which she probably could, she's genius level intelligence for a reason) That would be just as good of an edge here.

It’s not a source of power, it’s a weapon powered by Cinner’s own will. And you’re really throwing around this genius thing like it just makes her omnipotent or a god of knowledge. I just don’t see this edge being big as you do.

 

[Rayfire]

It’s not a source of power, it’s a weapon powered by Cinner’s own will. And you’re really throwing around this genius thing like it just makes her omnipotent or a god of knowledge. I just don’t see this edge being big as you do.

But then there's nothing for cinner to be able to power, is there? I'm trying not to throw her intelligence around, i was just bringing it up to show that she can figure this stuff out mid-fight.

 

[MintyBoi1]

But then there's nothing for cinner to be able to power, is there? I'm trying not to throw her intelligence around, i was just bringing it up to show that she can figure this stuff out mid-fight.

I’m not sure how she picks up on these things is the problem. Usually you need some sort of stimuli. Cinner’s powers are completely out of anything Haruka would know, who says she doesn’t assume him extending his staff is just some sort of magic? And once again either she disables the extension or just the staff’s durability which means her benefits are limited in more ways than time and won’t let her win that much easier.

 

[Rayfire]

I’m not sure how she picks up on these things is the problem. Usually you need some sort of stimuli. Cinner’s powers are completely out of anything Haruka would know, who says she doesn’t assume him extending his staff is just some sort of magic? And once again either she disables the extension or just the staff’s durability which means her benefits are limited in more ways than time and won’t let her win that much easier.

If haruka can deduce cinners' greatest fears just by looking at him, i'm very confident that she can do the same with how his power works, even if she doesn't figure it out right away. She'd definitely find it suspicious assuming most of his attacks are coming out of it, and especially when he treats his weapon like it's his best friend or something. (Hence a couple of his quotes) Usually it's not a big deal if your weapon is destroyed in bakuhatsu, you can use magic regardless of what you have, but this would definitely stand out to haruka

 

[MintyBoi1]

If haruka can deduce cinners' greatest fears just by looking at him, i'm very confident that she can do the same with how his power works, even if she doesn't figure it out right away. She'd definitely find it suspicious assuming most of his attacks are coming out of it, and especially when he treats his weapon like it's his best friend or something. (Hence a couple of his quotes) Usually it's not a big deal if your weapon is destroyed in bakuhatsu, you can use magic regardless of what you have, but this would definitely stand out to haruka

That specifically ties into Void of Despair though, there’s no justification like that for this. We are talking stuff from a different universe here. Maybe she would notice how much care he has with it but at the same time she’d have to deduce that personality quirk while he’s fighting her. It’s not like he uses it that differently from a normal weapon, he just cherishes it more and honestly any guy with a weapon should naturally not want it damaged because then you’re down an option. Like she’d find it suspicious he uses a weapon and attacks with said weapon? It’s not like it’s even his only option so she’d have to make even more leaps in logic to arrive at the conclusion of an Object Bond.

 

[Rayfire]

And how exactly is she gonna land a hit from hundreds of kilometers away? At that point she’s gonna be looking silly while Cinner tracks her down. I think you’re overhyping this Lifeline thing, it’s not like she’s turning off his entire ki arsenal. And the weapon is still there, it just won’t extend. Either that or she turns off the Object Bond and it can extend but it just scales to Cinner instead. Either way, nothing huge I’m seeing here.

I know it's not gonna disable ALL his abilities, but it's still a huge edge either way, since it's an opportunity for haruka to abuse AoE to land hits, which could help her destroy the lowered dura item, especially once her RE kicks in and gives her even more of an AP advantage. Haruka has superhuman precision + 320 Kilometer range, plus her skill. She isn't gonna look goofy at all. At the very least, cinner will have to make an effort to dodge her attacks.

Ain’t no way you called him Dinner but AD still lets Cinner improve his abilities at a rapid rate as well. And I don’t see how she’s Haruka is gonna be on an equal skill level with Cinner. What feats does Haruka have to put it on that tier? Beating Shizu doesn’t seem like enough justification.

MB IT WAS A TYPO LOL

You literally said that it would take days for cinner to do that, which is how long his proven stamina lasts. The closest thing he has to haruka's reactive evolution is accelerated development, but that was implied to take days. Nowhere near as fast.

But what about her attacks being mitigated by the heat and air pulling? And Cinner’s aura is literally the exact temperature of lightning I’ve said this. So Haruka might actually start succumbing after prolonged exposure. I don’t know if she can reliably portal away from a rushing Cinner while being pulled. Imagine you’re in front of a speeding bullet and then someone pushes you into it, are you dodging it or are you getting shot? If she tries waiting it out, she’ll have to hope Cinner stops attacking or doesn’t just feint her into lowering her guard and getting hit like he did Rinser. I still don’t know if we can count Lifeline the item entirely as a skill, like Venefica said that’s not power nullification.

True, but that's why i brought up partial heat resistance on top of that. And that's assuming she's even within the range, which she won't be constantly.

But How is it the temperature of lightning when his profile doesn't say that?

"Further Enhanced Temperature Manipulation (His heat aura condensing lets his attacks get up to 50000 degrees (27760 degrees) Fahrenheit)"

What makes you think she can't portal away? It's not like cinner can stop her.

That still makes absolutely no sense, even someone with Supernatural Willpower can be knocked out with enough force and repetition. If Haruka tries dodging Metal Crush Cinner can always propel himself with jumping off the air making himself move faster than her or go for a wider move like a horizontal swipe. And of course he already has a mobility advantage it seems besides portals so we have to be a bit generous to Haruka to assume she dodges. And once again besides the Nuke, Haruka has little ways of harming Cinner outside of his range. Plus her scythe is only extended melee range, so her trying to decapitate him like you said works against her. She either sticks close and gets beaten out or stays back and gets rushed down by Cinner who’d dodge and block most of her attacks.

The whole movement of metal crush being him leaping into the air just screams "YO!!!! IM GONNA ATTACK YOU!!!!" To haruka. Even still, Supernatural willpower is a huge help in avoiding a knockout, and you're assuming that haruka is just gonna let herself get hit, which she won't especially once she adapts to cinners' skill, even if for some reason she still wouldn't be as good. Those are still factors to consider her.

I mentioned decapitation when haruka nullifies the lifeline, or just outright stops cinner from moving once he takes enough organ damage. Once again, RE is gonna let her keep up with his skill, too. It's not going to be completely impossible.

Again, 1.7x AP difference and the staff is a strong metal. You’re really flip flopping on this LS thing too, so I was just making use of that uncertain value. And why would Cinner let her escape with a portal when he knows she’s gonna try pulling that once she’s caught? He’s gonna put the staff to her neck and crush her windpipe the second she tries getting away with a portal.

The windpipe thing is something haruka can heal, lol

Yeah, i know that, but Reactive Evolution, again, is way faster than any sort of adaptation cinner has, so haruka is going to end up with an even higher AP advantage. But, who's saying that haruka can't destroy it just cause it's metal? She's destroyed concrete before in the crater feat. I'm very sure that the staff being metal isn't gonna be a hinderence.

Haruka’s scythe still doesn’t give her an edge because Cinner has fought two likely more skilled/experienced scythe users and has his own skill scaling above them. She needs to be able to land a hit that deals organ damage for that to be an advantage and to be able to capitalize once she does before Cinner claps back.

I know that, which is why i said cinner is clearly more skilled. The only difference is, haruka's scythe can transform, which is definitely something cinner hasn't seen before, and there's also the fact she can adapt to his skill through RE (Again lol) And what's stopping haruka from landing a hit at all with superhuman precision in her arsenal as well? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Also, even if haruka can't land hits for very long, she doesn't have to try to capitalise on it straight away. She'd want to weaken cinner once she learns he can't regenerate organs quickly.

You literally said earlier you weren’t gonna say Haruka could outright match Cinner in acrobatics. It seems like Cinner’s constant direction shifting gives him a clear edge there especially once he’s adapted to Haruka’s strategies. And you’re comparing matching someone with a skill/acrobatics advantage to matching a prodigy with talent above most others in a weapon you’ve never used before. Just because it took days in that instance doesn’t mean it will here. I feel like you’re trying to make Haruka Garou here when she hasn’t even seen anyone on Cinner’s skill level before let alone fought them. And once again her nullification only lasts 30 seconds, things are not gonna change that quickly.

That was before i realized haruka could adapt through reactive evolution (Pls don't meme on me for bringing it up so much) I know that it might not be an immediate win for haruka, but obviously this nullification is still considerable, since it gives haruka a lot of openings to exploit. Also, what makes you think cinner's adaptation won't take as long here? He doesn't have any super-ultra fast adaptation, AKA Reactive evolution. sure, he became a skilled assasin in what's described as "Extremely quickly" but that's kind of a few days thing. Cinner does not have the feats to prove he can do the same thing as haruka here.

Again, Cinner has 50,000 degree attacks and aura so at a certain point she may be pained by it.

His profile says it's 27660 degrees, lol. Also, already explained above even if it is that hot ^

 

[Rayfire]

That specifically ties into Void of Despair though, there’s no justification like that for this. We are talking stuff from a different universe here. Maybe she would notice how much care he has with it but at the same time she’d have to deduce that personality quirk while he’s fighting her. It’s not like he uses it that differently from a normal weapon, he just cherishes it more and honestly any guy with a weapon should naturally not want it damaged because then you’re down an option. Like she’d find it suspicious he uses a weapon and attacks with said weapon? It’s not like it’s even his only option so she’d have to make even more leaps in logic to arrive at the conclusion of an Object Bond.

Well, Haruka does that through intelligence alone (Hence, Genius IQ, and why i put "Deduce" in her info analysis description) Even the smallest hint of that staff being his source of power is gonna send her on the right path of logic to conclude that.

 

[Rayfire]

^ She might not do it right away, but i'm confident she could do it fairly darn quickly

 

[MintyBoi1]

I know it's not gonna disable ALL his abilities, but it's still a huge edge either way, since it's an opportunity for haruka to abuse AoE to land hits, which could help her destroy the lowered dura item, especially once her RE kicks in and gives her even more of an AP advantage. Haruka has superhuman precision + 320 Kilometer range, plus her skill. She isn't gonna look goofy at all. At the very least, cinner will have to make an effort to dodge her attacks.

MB IT WAS A TYPO LOL

You literally said that it would take days for cinner to do that, which is how long his proven stamina lasts. The closest thing he has to haruka's reactive evolution is accelerated development, but that was implied to take days. Nowhere near as fast.

True, but that's why i brought up partial heat resistance on top of that. And that's assuming she's even within the range, which she won't be constantly.

But How is it the temperature of lightning when his profile doesn't say that?

"Further Enhanced Temperature Manipulation (His heat aura condensing lets his attacks get up to 50000 degrees (27760 degrees) Fahrenheit)"

What makes you think she can't portal away? It's not like cinner can stop her.

The whole movement of metal crush being him leaping into the air just screams "YO!!!! IM GONNA ATTACK YOU!!!!" To haruka. Even still, Supernatural willpower is a huge help in avoiding a knockout, and you're assuming that haruka is just gonna let herself get hit, which she won't especially once she adapts to cinners' skill, even if for some reason she still wouldn't be as good. Those are still factors to consider her.

I mentioned decapitation when haruka nullifies the lifeline, or just outright stops cinner from moving once he takes enough organ damage. Once again, RE is gonna let her keep up with his skill, too. It's not going to be completely impossible.

The windpipe thing is something haruka can heal, lol

Yeah, i know that, but Reactive Evolution, again, is way faster than any sort of adaptation cinner has, so haruka is going to end up with an even higher AP advantage. But, who's saying that haruka can't destroy it just cause it's metal? She's destroyed concrete before in the crater feat. I'm very sure that the staff being metal isn't gonna be a hinderence.

I know that, which is why i said cinner is clearly more skilled. The only difference is, haruka's scythe can transform, which is definitely something cinner hasn't seen before, and there's also the fact she can adapt to his skill through RE (Again lol) And what's stopping haruka from landing a hit at all with superhuman precision in her arsenal as well? That doesn't make a lot of sense. Also, even if haruka can't land hits for very long, she doesn't have to try to capitalise on it straight away. She'd want to weaken cinner once she learns he can't regenerate organs quickly.

That was before i realized haruka could adapt through reactive evolution (Pls don't meme on me for bringing it up so much) I know that it might not be an immediate win for haruka, but obviously this nullification is still considerable, since it gives haruka a lot of openings to exploit. Also, what makes you think cinner's adaptation won't take as long here? He doesn't have any super-ultra fast adaptation, AKA Reactive evolution. sure, he became a skilled assasin in what's described as "Extremely quickly" but that's kind of a few days thing. Cinner does not have the feats to prove he can do the same thing as haruka here.

His profile says it's 27660 degrees, lol. Also, already explained above even if it is that hot ^

I’m still not seeing the huge edge here. If Cinner notices a difference in Lifeline which he likely should given his life force is in it, he can always resort to dodging until the time is up and he feels fine again, leaving Haruka on a cooldown. Cinner has the benefit of sensing air vibrations to anticipate her attacking from afar and the skill to block her attacks, adding distance between them is doing Haruka no favors.

Got it.

Cinner’s results seem more potent, so that example taking days isn’t that big a detriment. I could just say he went from MCB and a novice with the katana to small town and fairly skilled in a matter of hours or so. And Haruka still needs the time for her RE to help plus her growing to Cinner’s skill level seems like cap.

Bro it says 50,000 degrees Fahrenheit, that’s the temperature of lightning. You’re converting when you don’t need to, the value is right there. And yeah Haruka can get out of range, but Cinner can get in range. And he absolutely can stop her like I said. Haruka isn’t gonna be healing her crushed neck while knocked out or dead from the injury and if she does she’s getting it played for her again. Cinner isn’t gonna pull a Vegeta and just assume things are over, he’s better than that. He’ll stick around for at least a few seconds which I doubt Haruka can really stay conscious for before dipping.

I mean how do you just assume he’s gonna come down with crushing force from a simple jump when he’s jumping around the whole battlefield the whole fight? Even then, she has to be fast enough to react before he reaches her and air pulling could come into play here if it’s really that big a possibility or Cinner tries it a second time. And there’s always the second activation method where Cinner is blasted up by say a darkness attack and unexpectedly retaliates with the crush.

I don’t see her alive enough to accomplish casting the spell for that. The oxygen would be leaving her brain too fast.

Maybe if she gets 3x stronger or in one shot range, but Cinner still can put up resistance and if he sees Lifeline accumulating damage he’s gonna avoid unnecessary moves that would let that continue. It still scales to him.

Ok she can transform it but just adding more blades shouldn’t change much, especially if Cinner decides to try applying some heat and force to dent them. He can react to spread shots, so they should be similar enough for him to be good. What’s stopping Haruka is Cinner being able to block with similar levels of precision plus the fact he’s a moving target. Weakening Cinner means landing multiple hits on him and doing so before he heals from them, which is gonna be hard for Haruka. And it’s not like she has infinite stamina either, unless her healing covers energy as well enough times being hit over the head or in the body should wear her down as well.

Cinner starts ahead in acrobatics and skill and has accelerated growth, it’s gonna do something here. Mastering a weapon usually takes years, converting that down I think makes his stuff about as impressive as Haruka matching a less skilled opponent than Cinner. Once again she doesn’t have the feats here either to back your claims. She adapted to someone she already predicted everything from, it’s not the same. And her nullification lasts a very short time and a cooldown on top of it, so any openings she gets in that time is gonna be limited and likely not contribute that much.

You are misreading.

Well, Haruka does that through intelligence alone (Hence, Genius IQ, and why i put "Deduce" in her info analysis description) Even the smallest hint of that staff being his source of power is gonna send her on the right path of logic to conclude that.

It’s not the source of his power though, it’s a weapon. People use weapons all the time, why would she hyperfocus on this minute detail in the middle of a life or death situation? And how’s she arrive at the conclusion he’s tied his willpower into his weapon without any knowledge such a thing is even possible? Sure she can find out your greatest fear, but those are at least somewhat tangible since everyone has a fear. Not everyone is doing this thing.

 

[MintyBoi1]

I’m getting a bit frustrated which I’m sure neither of us wants and we’ve been discussing this for days now and over an hour today, so maybe we should just let people vote now or discuss this.

 

[Froggytron]

I’m not sure how she picks up on these things is the problem. Usually you need some sort of stimuli. Cinner’s powers are completely out of anything Haruka would know, who says she doesn’t assume him extending his staff is just some sort of magic? And once again either she disables the extension or just the staff’s durability which means her benefits are limited in more ways than time and won’t let her win that much easier.

That specifically ties into Void of Despair though, there’s no justification like that for this. We are talking stuff from a different universe here. Maybe she would notice how much care he has with it but at the same time she’d have to deduce that personality quirk while he’s fighting her. It’s not like he uses it that differently from a normal weapon, he just cherishes it more and honestly any guy with a weapon should naturally not want it damaged because then you’re down an option. Like she’d find it suspicious he uses a weapon and attacks with said weapon? It’s not like it’s even his only option so she’d have to make even more leaps in logic to arrive at the conclusion of an Object Bond.

Im hanging with Minty here, although Cinner may appreciate his weapon slightly more than other SDS fighters, I don't see it being any reason for these numerous KO arguments made out of a pure hypothetical theory.

And I can't help but feel that lots of Hakura's capabilities are being exaggerated in the arguing above what would the realistic match look like, for example, her Information Analysis (being only described as finding the opponent's worst fears) being turned into reading Cinner like a book in this threat.

 

[Rayfire]

Can't reply rn, but i will as soon as i can

 

[Froggytron]

I find Cinner's bigger strength in being able to constantly produce a heat 5x times hotter than the surface of the sun / or a heat of constantly shocking lighting, while Haruka only has non-specific minor fire resistance with Elemental Manipulation, which I see will only postpone her dying from the heat. Since Haruka is a melee fighter, she will be exposed to the 5x sun temperature surface non-stop, and I can't imagine her winning when Cinner uses his skill to last in battle combating her. Combined with Cinner's martial arts, acrobatics, levitation, sensory abilities, and Cinner resisting Hakura's top skill without damage, I find these enough to vote Cinner FRA.

 

[Rayfire]

I find Cinner's bigger strength in being able to constantly produce a heat 5x times hotter than the surface of the sun / or a heat of constantly shocking lighting, while Haruka only has non-specific minor fire resistance with Elemental Manipulation, which I see will only postpone her dying from the heat. Since Haruka is a melee fighter, she will be exposed to the 5x sun temperature surface non-stop, and I can't imagine her winning when Cinner uses his skill to last in battle combating her. Combined with Cinner's martial arts, acrobatics, levitation, sensory abilities, and Cinner resisting Hakura's top skill without damage, I find these enough to vote Cinner FRA.

Haruka has tanked the heat of lightning, and where does it say Cinner can produce heat that hot? I don’t think you’re reading anything that’s been said…

And I can't help but feel that lots of Hakura's capabilities are being exaggerated in the arguing above what would the realistic match look like, for example, her Information Analysis (being only described as finding the opponent's worst fears) being turned into reading Cinner like a book in this threat.

They aren’t. Haruka’s info analysis for example is based on intelligence. That’s why I put “deduce” in her info analysis description. Even the slightest hint will send haruka on the right path to deduce cinners’ power and will know to use nullify on the lifeforce/Staff

I have already explained and gave my reasoning for a lot of this already, you seem to be jumping to conclusions…

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Haruka has tanked the heat of lightning, and where does it say Cinner can produce heat that hot? I don’t think you’re reading anything that’s been said…

Profile says verbatim His heat aura condensing lets his attacks get up to 50000 degrees Fahrenheit

 

[MintyBoi1]

Please just read

 

[Froggytron]

I have already explained and gave my reasoning for a lot of this already, you seem to be jumping to conclusions…

I know Cinner's profile well, read his moves in numerous threats, and "fought" with his key2. Heat isn't something keeping itself at a small point, it spreads out, namely when Cinner has a heat aura around him. When you look at profiles you try arguing against, please read their other text as well, as you read their Weaknesses section

 

[Javenplayz253]

I know Cinner's profile well, read his moves in numerous threats, and "fought" with his key2. Heat isn't something keeping itself at a small point, it spreads out, namely when Cinner has a heat aura around him. When you look at profiles you try arguing against, please read their other text as well as you read their Weaknesses section

Can you guys get this done please
I just wanna get my poor baby axlven's match done.

 

[MintyBoi1]

They aren’t. Haruka’s info analysis for example is based on intelligence. That’s why I put “deduce” in her info analysis description. Even the slightest hint will send haruka on the right path to deduce cinners’ power and will know to use nullify on the lifeforce/Staff

I have already explained and gave my reasoning for a lot of this already, you seem to be jumping to conclusions…

That’s a different application of intelligence though. You can’t take playing the piano to clubbing a golf ball over a mountain. That’s basically the amount of different situation this is, she already tried Void of Despair too and she didn’t deduce him breaking out of it. Shes not getting a hint.

Can you guys get this done please
I just wanna get my poor baby axlven's match done.

Don’t be the divorced couples kid rn man.

 

[Javenplayz253]

Don’t be the divorced couples kid rn man.

Sorry dude lol cause no matter the winner poor guy Finna die