[R1M1] Venefica's Tier 7 Tourney: Kryn vs Finn the Human

[MintyBoi1]

Yes Finn has higher AP. Both have one-tap attacks, but Finn needs to get to melee to use it while Kryn can use it ranged. Yes, Kryn's earlier Magma attacks wouldn't do much damage and are meant to keep him busy right before he cuts him apart with a Caustic Flood. Finn being better at swordsmanship and martial arts is a fact but irrelevant since he needs to go melee to use them, my entire argument is that he'll die before he does. Kryn doesn't scale to "afterimages and flips", I posted the feats above and those are the bare minimum Aspirant-1s can do. All things you mentioned Finn can do can be done by Aspirant-1s, who also have better senses awareness and body control Finn lacks. These guys are fodderized in the dozens by Aspirant-2s, who are fodderized in the dozens by Aspirant-3s, who are defeated by Kryn even when outnumbered.

Kryn can not only beat those people, he defeats people who have the mentioned skill chain. Does Finn have something similar? You keep mentioning Ghost Gladiators but you fail to establish how skilled they are when I provided people with literal bare minimum skill being comparable to Finn and them being the bottom of a skill chain I just mentioned As I said, all the acrobatics and agility you mention of him are stuff bare minimum Aspirant-1s can pull of.

Kryn can do the same thing. He regularly outperforms people with generally better abilities, and has Immo Type 2 and doesn't care about how much damage his body takes. Plus the longer this goes the more Kryn fill analyze him, by less than half an hour (from their perspective) Finn is a book read by Kryn.

Mint, bro, you once again failed to establish Finn has someone even remotely comparable to what Kryn deals with on a regular basis. All you did here was recycling things you said earlier which I refuted.

But Finn is very experienced in dealing with primarily ranged fighters given they’re his very worst enemies. Can you give me something specific for this acrobatics claim? You’re just saying this is the minimum but I can’t tangibly imagine what puts them above Finn when his shown feats look more impressive. And again, enhanced senses don’t benefit Kryn here nor are they something Finn himself hasn’t dealt with so that’s null, and Finn takes on Jake who is the peak of body control. There’s an episode where Jake has an entire civilization in his body and his dad could make a whole planet full of fake people yet Finn fights him to a standstill multiple times.

The Gladiator Knights could fight Jake who’s on Finn’s level who takes on Ice King who beat the Ice elemental and The Lich who is one of the most powerful in the cosmology. Finn can take on gigantic monsters and people with thousands of years of experience using their abilities while it seems like Kryn just takes on skilled humanoids/robots.

Spoiler: Lich Intelligence

The Lich is a diabolically cunning being whose knowledge and experience seems to be shared among every Lich from alternate timelines, in which there are infinite. The Lich employs a selection of powerful magical spells and abilities into combat, most of which seem to be based around affecting the target's mind. The Lich has the ability to possess others and has the intellect to act just like the individual they're possessing, as seen in how similar his personality was to Billy's when he possessed his body

Spoiler: Ice King Intelligence

Very childish and insane, though is a decently knowledgeable wizard who does have mastery over a good deal of spells.

Just those people having abilities doesn’t mean much when Finn beats peoples with the same abilities and more, Jake has instinctive reaction once again and Finn fights him. Immortality type 2 isn’t stopping Finn decapitating Kryn which is very much in character. What makes Kryn able to react to Finn even if he can predict him, especially since he’s already unpredictable?

Spoiler: Finn’s Spontaneous Thinking

Finn is a very quick thinker. His fear of the ocean forbade him from swimming underwater, so he knocked himself out in order to sink to the bottom of the ocean. As he couldn't use a zombie serum on a group of zombies, he covered himself in the antidote and jumped in the crowd. He is shown to use his enemies' possessions in battle, shown when he used the Ice King's jacket and a giant ogre's large dollar to glide in the air. While trying to free himself from the Business Men's robot, he comes up with a plan for Jake to rapidly expand and block their suction machine via overeating and stretching. After finding out there was multiple enemies in a hostage situation, he found a way to quickly, quietly, and efficiently dispatch all of them, with one of his methods being to lure one into a room and ambush it while they were off guard.

Finn's intellect reaches to outside of battle as well, except for mathematics. He is cunning, creating a fake Demon Blood Sword infused with grape juice and holy water in order to kill Kee-oth. He built a catapult used to send Jake across a river with spare trash. He figured out the curse of the Frog Monster and the mystery of Tree Trunks' stolen apples. Knows how to pick locks

Finn still in my opinion has enough mobility and ingenuity to figure something out even once he’s being read assuming the fight lasts that long when Finn can tank and wipe everything in Kryn’s arsenal aside from one move he’d take time to use and would be rapidly approaching him.

You’re just recycling “oh skill advantage” like I didn’t already acknowledge it and put stuff that lets Finn get past that like Heat resistance for deflecting caustic flood and acrobatics/endurance for taking Kryn’s attacks. Also he still has power shriek which could likely do something and could use his accuracy on the clones to get to Kryn.

 

[MintyBoi1]

I looked at Kryn’s intelligence and I feel like enhanced senses is being confused for skill here. A character like Naruto can sense people across dimensions, but that doesn’t speak to his intelligence just his senses. Besides his leadership, combat skill, and reading people he doesn’t seem like he’s that much smarter than Finn who is also Gifted and more creative/on the fly

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

But Finn is very experienced in dealing with primarily ranged fighters given they’re his very worst enemies. Can you give me something specific for this acrobatics claim? You’re just saying this is the minimum but I can’t tangibly imagine what puts them above Finn when his shown feats look more impressive. And again, enhanced senses don’t benefit Kryn here nor are they something Finn himself hasn’t dealt with so that’s null, and Finn takes on Jake who is the peak of body control. There’s an episode where Jake has an entire civilization in his body and his dad could make a whole planet full of fake people yet Finn fights him to a standstill multiple times.

The Gladiator Knights could fight Jake who’s on Finn’s level who takes on Ice King who beat the Ice elemental and The Lich who is one of the most powerful in the cosmology. Finn can take on gigantic monsters and people with thousands of years of experience using their abilities while it seems like Kryn just takes on skilled humanoids/robots.

Just those people having abilities doesn’t mean much when Finn beats peoples with the same abilities and more, Jake has instinctive reaction once again and Finn fights him. Immortality type 2 isn’t stopping Finn decapitating Kryn which is very much in character. What makes Kryn able to react to Finn even if he can predict him, especially since he’s already unpredictable?

Spoiler: Finn’s Spontaneous Thinking

Finn is a very quick thinker. His fear of the ocean forbade him from swimming underwater, so he knocked himself out in order to sink to the bottom of the ocean. As he couldn't use a zombie serum on a group of zombies, he covered himself in the antidote and jumped in the crowd. He is shown to use his enemies' possessions in battle, shown when he used the Ice King's jacket and a giant ogre's large dollar to glide in the air. While trying to free himself from the Business Men's robot, he comes up with a plan for Jake to rapidly expand and block their suction machine via overeating and stretching. After finding out there was multiple enemies in a hostage situation, he found a way to quickly, quietly, and efficiently dispatch all of them, with one of his methods being to lure one into a room and ambush it while they were off guard.

Finn's intellect reaches to outside of battle as well, except for mathematics. He is cunning, creating a fake Demon Blood Sword infused with grape juice and holy water in order to kill Kee-oth. He built a catapult used to send Jake across a river with spare trash. He figured out the curse of the Frog Monster and the mystery of Tree Trunks' stolen apples. Knows how to pick locks

Finn still in my opinion has enough mobility and ingenuity to figure something out even once he’s being read assuming the fight lasts that long when Finn can tank and wipe everything in Kryn’s arsenal aside from one move he’d take time to use and would be rapidly approaching him.

You’re just recycling “oh skill advantage” like I didn’t already acknowledge it and put stuff that lets Finn get past that like Heat resistance for deflecting caustic flood and acrobatics/endurance for taking Kryn’s attacks. Also he still has power shriek which could likely do something and could use his accuracy on the clones to get to Kryn.

I see

I looked at Kryn’s intelligence and I feel like enhanced senses is being confused for skill here. A character like Naruto can sense people across dimensions, but that doesn’t speak to his intelligence just his senses. Besides his leadership, combat skill, and reading people he doesn’t seem like he’s that much smarter than Finn who is also Gifted and more creative/on the fly

I see

 

[ExSENNA]

But Finn is very experienced in dealing with primarily ranged fighters given they’re his very worst enemies. Can you give me something specific for this acrobatics claim? You’re just saying this is the minimum but I can’t tangibly imagine what puts them above Finn when his shown feats look more impressive. And again, enhanced senses don’t benefit Kryn here nor are they something Finn himself hasn’t dealt with so that’s null, and Finn takes on Jake who is the peak of body control. There’s an episode where Jake has an entire civilization in his body and his dad could make a whole planet full of fake people yet Finn fights him to a standstill multiple times.

The Gladiator Knights could fight Jake who’s on Finn’s level who takes on Ice King who beat the Ice elemental and The Lich who is one of the most powerful in the cosmology. Finn can take on gigantic monsters and people with thousands of years of experience using their abilities while it seems like Kryn just takes on skilled humanoids/robots.

I have already done so. You haven't added anything groundbreaking either and are just repeating the same things, The things you're saying does not really put him in a comparable position to what because most of what you have said against his agility and acrobatics can be done by basic Aspirant-1s. Like, he's barely above them in his feats. I don't see his edge over basic Aspirant-1 can make up for the difference between that and Aspirant-2s, who can defeat dozens of Aspirant-1s (the ones Finn barely has an edge over) without even getting hit, who are defeated in the dozens by Aspirant-3. As I said earlier, being better to the point you can defeat dozens of such opponents all at once without even getting hit is already a feat in itself. The awareness is not some supernatural ability, these guys aren't spontaneously aware of all things in a radius around them and can distinguish each atom and can count and keep track of them because of a supernatural ability, but due to their combat prowess. How is Jake having an entire civilization in his body a combat-applicable utilization of body control? The people I mentioned can reorganize their own atoms and mitigate blunt damage by doing so and can change from their position by reorganizing their atoms rather than moving normally. This is combat-applicable body control.

That is kind of a circular reasoning, Finn > Gladiator Knights = Jake (= Finn) = Ice King = The Lich. I don't quite understand what that is and what it says about their capability, it doesn't compare to the skill chain I established. The Lich is an eldritch horror that doesn't rely on combating people normally, please stop bringing him up. Being thousands of years old does not just make you combat god either hence why I rarely mentioned Kryn's own experience of fighting people similar to Finn who have more stuff going for them for 100 years.

Just those people having abilities doesn’t mean much when Finn beats peoples with the same abilities and more, Jake has instinctive reaction once again and Finn fights him. Immortality type 2 isn’t stopping Finn decapitating Kryn which is very much in character. What makes Kryn able to react to Finn even if he can predict him, especially since he’s already unpredictable?

The bare minimum people have instinctive reactions established better than what Jake has in his profile. I mentioned Immo type 2 as to say that he doesn't care how much punishment his body takes as you said Finn can last for days, added with this fight lasting even half of an hour would make him into a book.

Spoiler: Finn’s Spontaneous Thinking

Finn is a very quick thinker. His fear of the ocean forbade him from swimming underwater, so he knocked himself out in order to sink to the bottom of the ocean. As he couldn't use a zombie serum on a group of zombies, he covered himself in the antidote and jumped in the crowd. He is shown to use his enemies' possessions in battle, shown when he used the Ice King's jacket and a giant ogre's large dollar to glide in the air. While trying to free himself from the Business Men's robot, he comes up with a plan for Jake to rapidly expand and block their suction machine via overeating and stretching. After finding out there was multiple enemies in a hostage situation, he found a way to quickly, quietly, and efficiently dispatch all of them, with one of his methods being to lure one into a room and ambush it while they were off guard.

Finn's intellect reaches to outside of battle as well, except for mathematics. He is cunning, creating a fake Demon Blood Sword infused with grape juice and holy water in order to kill Kee-oth. He built a catapult used to send Jake across a river with spare trash. He figured out the curse of the Frog Monster and the mystery of Tree Trunks' stolen apples. Knows how to pick locks

Finn still in my opinion has enough mobility and ingenuity to figure something out even once he’s being read assuming the fight lasts that long when Finn can tank and wipe everything in Kryn’s arsenal aside from one move he’d take time to use and would be rapidly approaching him.

You’re just recycling “oh skill advantage” like I didn’t already acknowledge it and put stuff that lets Finn get past that like Heat resistance for deflecting caustic flood and acrobatics/endurance for taking Kryn’s attacks. Also he still has power shriek which could likely do something and could use his accuracy on the clones to get to Kryn.

How are any of the things in this "Spontenaous Thinking" section that impressive? They look like stuff any witted person can pull off. It's not like he's pulling these feats to people who are even remotely comparable to what Kryn deals with on a regular basis, and Kryn can still analyze their movements from demeanor alone. Power Shriek doesn't display itself to be a long-range attack and clones would just be respawned by Kryn as he uses them, who is also constantly backs off and Finn doesn't have any way of stopping him from doing so.


I already said heat resistance is irrelevant against Caustic Flood as it is not a heat attack, it is a rapid corroding attack that will go through Finn and his sword. At that point, Finn would be dealing with Magma attacks that did minimal damage and he may not even attempt to dodge Caustic Flood and choose to block, which would be fatal for him.

I looked at Kryn’s intelligence and I feel like enhanced senses is being confused for skill here. A character like Naruto can sense people across dimensions, but that doesn’t speak to his intelligence just his senses. Besides his leadership, combat skill, and reading people he doesn’t seem like he’s that much smarter than Finn who is also Gifted and more creative/on the fly

His senses are based on intelligence. All the skills/feats listed above are not supernatural abilities but rather they are used by their intellect, they learn to use those abilities by working on them, meaning the bare minimum people learn to sense all things in a radius, learn to distinguish atoms, learn to reorganize their own atoms, learn to shoot accurately. These are intelligence feats already.

 

[MintyBoi1]

I have already done so. You haven't added anything groundbreaking either and are just repeating the same things, anything you say does not really put him in a comparable position to what because most of what you have said against his agility and acrobatics can be done by basic Aspirant-1s. Like, he's barely above them in his feats. I don't see his edge over basic Aspirant-1 can make up for the difference between that and Aspirant-2s, who can defeat dozens of Aspirant-1s (the ones Finn barely has an edge over) without even getting hit, who are defeated in the dozens by Aspirant-3. As I said earlier, being better to the point you can defeat dozens of opponents all at once without even getting hit is already a feat in itself. The awareness is not some supernatural ability, these guys aren't spontaneously aware of all things in a radius around them and can distinguish each atom and can count and keep track of them because of a supernatural ability, but due to their combat prowess. How is Jake having an entire civilization in his body a combat-applicable utilization of body control? The people I mentioned can reorganize their own atoms and mitigate blunt damage by doing so and can change from their position by reorganizing their atoms rather than moving normally. This is combat-applicable body control.

That is kind of a circular reasoning Finn > Gladiator Knights = Jake (= Finn) = Ice King = The Lich I don't quite understand what that is and what it says about their capability, it doesn't compare to the skill chain I established. The Lich is an eldritch horror that doesn't rely on combating people normally, please stop bringing him up. Being thousands of years old does not just make you combat god either hence why I rarely mentioned Kryn's own experience of fighting people similar to Finn who have more stuff going for them for 100 years.


The bare minimum people have instinctive reactions established better than what Jake has in his profile. I mentioned Immo type 2 as to say that he doesn't care how much punishment his body takes as you said Finn can last for days, added with this fight lasting even half of an hour would make him into a book.



How are any of the things in this "Spontenaous Thinking" section that impressive? They look like stuff any witted person can pull off. It's not like he's pulling these feats to people who are even remotely comparable to what Kryn deals with on a regular basis, and Kryn can still analyze their movements from demeanor alone. Power Shriek doesn't display itself to be a long-range attack and clones would just be respawned by Kryn as he uses them, who is also constantly backs off and Finn doesn't have any way of stopping him from doing so.


I already said heat resistance is irrelevant against Caustic Flood as it is not a heat attack, it is a rapid corroding attack that will go through Finn and his sword. At that point, Finn would be dealing with Magma attacks that did minimal damage and he may not even attempt to dodge Caustic Flood and choose to block, which would be fatal for him.


His senses are based on intelligence. All the skills/feats listed above are not supernatural abilities but rather they are used by their intellect, they learn to use those abilities by working on them, meaning the bare minimum people learn to sense all things in a radius, learn to distinguish atoms, learn to reorganize their own atoms, learn to shoot accurately. These are intelligence feats already.

Again, tell me a feat a 1 or 2 has done besides being able to do a single flip and make afterimages which itself is an ability basic people can do in a lot of series. Kryn’s own acrobatics section also seems pretty basic in comparison to Finn. I can see him getting overwhelmed by something Finn does far easier than the other way around even accounting for abilities.

Spoiler: Finn’s Acrobatics

Hypermobility, Self-Momentum, and Surface Running; Parkours throughout the City of Thieves. Capable of doing triple flips out of his house and over people. Can do flips from one handed hand-stands and does large backflips across fields alongside Fern. Does several flips off of the Jigglers' noodly arms. Can run up vertical surfaces with enough speed

The counting atoms things speaks to their precision, but I still don’t see how helpful that is when Finn also has unnatural accuracy in his intelligence and he’s a more active fighter since he’s not a long range specialist. I mainly mentioned those things for Jake to show how different the scale is here, but he can also make hordes of limbs and make himself gigantic which these guys can’t for combat applicable uses.

What I mean is Finn can fodderize people comparable to people on his level and has shown superiority to people with great intelligence and mastery of their abilities. And I put Lich’s intelligence for reference so look at that. And you realize Kryn also isn’t relying on combatting Finn normally; Lich is skilled with magic and is a mainly long range fighter just like Kryn. So the comparison is warranted. His magic skill and cunning are in themselves things that speak about his combat prowess and he’s more experienced on top of that.

The instinctive action is somewhat debatable given casting a spell takes at least some more intelligence than just reacting to attacks, but regardless both can deal with that so it’s still not a Kryn advantage. And the second Finn gets in Kryn loses his head or gets hit hard enough to have his bones shattered so his immortality still isn’t helping.

Because any witty guy can trick a demon and diffuse a hostage situation. Finn undoubtedly takes creativity here, so he should figure something out for dealing with clones and wide spread attacks like taking something to throw/block with if he or his sword can’t just take them. Sound travels and Kryn would still need to remake his clones in which Finn has some time to get closer and then those clones are getting spawn killed and Kryn’s defense is lowered.

I know it’s a corroding attack, but it’s still based on steam which is a heat based thing while Finn has layers of heat resistance. And if it does go through the sword, that’s an added second for Finn to move so he isn’t killed by redirection or first contact. He might just be able to disperse it since it’s liquid and gas. Plus it’s not like the flood is faster than Finn and Kryn has to actively aim it.

I have no idea how training your senses equates to intelligence besides the precision stuff, but I’ll roll with that. I have said my piece.

 

[ExSENNA]

Okay guys, I already posted it on the original Tourney Thread but I should post it here too I guess, I'm withdrawing due to the reasons I mentioned over there. Finn automatically progresses in the Tourney now.

 

[MintyBoi1]

See you man

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Dang

Didn't expect this at all when it started, all the luck to you though ExSENNA

 

[ExSENNA]

Dang

Didn't expect this at all when it started, all the luck to you though ExSENNA

Yeah man, throughout the entire argument, I was in dilemma on whether I should continue or just withdraw because I was running out of time. As I said, I probably shouldn't have entered in the first place given I had work to do, I was asked politely by Capricornblandlibrarian and was like sure and then my competitiveness got the better of me lol

See you man

See you too man, sorry to bother you with this long pointless argument only to withdraw lol, like I said I should have never entered. I hope no bad blood between us ♥

 

[MintyBoi1]

See you too man, sorry to bother you with this long pointless argument only to withdraw lol, like I said I should have never entered. I hope no bad blood between us ♥

I think we both got a bit into this but that’s just how I and people close to me are with vs debates when we can’t agree on a victor. You did have some good points, so this was a fine match.