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Questioning Universal JoJo

It proves nothing as Made in Heaven had to affect the universe. Even then only that Stand was said to affect all the universe, which even has a justification.

My point was that Araki cares enough to show how time related abilities affect the world, as we have seen in the Made in Heaven arc.
 
No, that's not how it works

You make a claim "it affects all of time/ the entire universe rather than the limited area stated"

You need to show proof for that claim, it's not up to me to debunk a claim when no proof has been put forward

and MIH and Time stands are incomparable in my opinion, MIH had an entire arc based PURELY on its ability, that was the reason why we saw the effects of it; it was the entire purpose of the arc, to reset the universe, just because Araki showed the effects for that doesn't mean he would for every single time; time stands have been used.

No one is denying that MIH is universal in range but there's no proof that time stopped accelerating beyond the planet when SP is used, or any proof that Time based stands are Universal in range when our current justification comes from an ambigous statement from araki.
 
"Even the sun starts spinning too fast for people, so it's obviously not just the Earth. And the whole plan related to Made in Heaven was that as the entire universe accelerates, it hits a "vanishing point" and then a new universe springs up. So... yes, this is kinda impossible unless the spee dup is universal."

I would like said proof not just being blatantly ignored, thank you. But maybe my post showed up after Tri's I honestly have no clue.
 
ANd again, Tata, the point is that saying authors don't care, when Araki shows quite a lot of actual care about this stuff, sounds counterproductive. Scientists notice the effects of Made in Heaven but they don't notice the Planetary timestop, how does that work?
 
"there's no proof that time stopped accelerating beyond the planet when SP is used"

The fact that the universe didn't get reset in chunks. If the whole of Earth got stopped from any acceleration multiple times, then the rest of the universe would have reset by itself.
 
TataHakai said:
No, that's not how it works
You make a claim "it affects all of time/ the entire universe rather than the limited area stated"

You need to show proof for that claim, it's not up to me to debunk a claim when no proof has been put forward

and MIH and Time stands are incomparable in my opinion, MIH had an entire arc based PURELY on its ability, that was the reason why we saw the effects of it; it was the entire purpose of the arc, to reset the universe, just because Araki showed the effects for that doesn't mean he would for every single time; time stands have been used.

No one is denying that MIH is universal in range but there's no proof that time stopped accelerating beyond the planet when SP is used, or any proof that Time based stands are Universal in range when our current justification comes from an ambigous statement from araki.
Click to expand...
That's the baseline assumption when somebody says "I can stop time!". You don't assume they ONLY stop time in a limited area around them, you take the statement literally and as a fact, they can indeed stop the concept of time in general - that means ALL of time.

Regardless it seems like nearly everyone strongly disagrees with you and has provided reasoning and logic why, so I'm okay with stepping out of this thread for now.
 
Ogbunabali said:
And it was stopped by Star Platinum.
Click to expand...
It wasn't, the time acceleration was still a thing within his time stop. What's being "stopped by Star Platinum" here, huh?
 
I'll come write a more detailed response later, but I want to be clear on something first. GER's high universal stuff comes more so from him effecting space time on a less than universal scale, rather than the alternate worlds thing. There is also a specific scan where Giorno mentions other realities for his multiversal+ range thing
 
No, Jotaro's affected perception by Time Acceleration was stilll a thing, but at no point did his time stop stop working. It's ended right away, just like all the other people seeing the sun moving super fast, or bodies decompose in moments. Jotaro still stops time for 5 seconds, but the entire universe's time is so speed up "5 seconds" is nothing to Jotaro's normal perception.
 
I noticed that on your part but I think Lancelot was talking to me? If so his message contradicts itself.
 
As it was in general it doesn't contradict anything, if it were to me the "No" would be to what I said, which you affirmed there. It really is kinda misleading why do you say perception if Pucci doesn't have Perception Manip and why did that started with a "no"?
 
I am half assedly trying to multitask some stuff at the same time, so I could have worded that weirdly. I'll try to check it out in more detail later.

Though my point was that all things affected in anyway by time happen much quicker, and the only living organism that also accelerates and can react to everything going much quicker is Pucci. Even though Time Stop, well, stops time, it only lasts 5 seconds. Some form of time is happening, even if only from the perception of Jotaro. So like everything else in the universe, 5 seconds is speed up and passes by in a flash. But Time Stop is still working.

Am not too good at this stuff, so explaining it is odd.
 
Oh guys using physics and geography to say that the time stop is universal or otherwise it would cause problems, is not valid. I mean you guys are talking about a verse that has MFTL+ characters, when by physics SoL is the max. Araki broke physics with that speed feat, so unless a character states or say something about the earth getting destroyed by these causes then the argument can't be used. Physics in anime is thrown out of the window, there are billions of cases where physics doesn't work in anime, this case is no different unless someone states thing would go like that.
 
So every law of physics and common sense must be thrown out of the window because a few things, rather common media things, don't follow the same rules?

MiH directly states, in it's description, the use of the relation between gravity and time, using the gravitational force of the earth, moon and the universe to **** around with the speed of time, the only ones not affected by this being living beings with the exception of Pucci. We get shown dead bodies decomposing in seconds and ink drying before a mangaka can draw, and the night lasting barely anything, and a drinking glass falling in an instant but behaving normally when grabbed by someone, but then you are gonna tell me Araki doesn't care at all?

I see a fail there somewhere.
 
@LSirLancelot

That's mechanics, not counting physics. His ability is based on gravity and time. Not that Araki actually went through the math of calculating how much the earth would change if only the earth stopped and not everything else. There are literally 0 ways how you can argue that, and in a verse that breaks the laws of physics on a daily basis you can't apply physics to everything. Might as well give everyone High 3-A physical AP cus

"they move faster than light, and at the speed of light E=mc^2 so it means having infinite kinetic energy therefore High 3-A AP"

This argument is just as sound as yours. Yes it's physically and scientifically correct, doesn't mean Araki actually bothered to keep this law of nature in his verse.

Again you don't have the right to choose when physics applies to Jojo and when it does not. None of us do, so unless you can get me a quote of Araki saying "Yes that is actually true, the time stop is universal or otherwise this happens" then you can't use it as an argument. You didn't make the series, he did, he decides what applies and what doesn't, you're just making baseless arguments of "well it should apply" when araki has never stated that it would apply.

By physics time accel wouldn't work at all. Pucci would have been dead from a random sun exploding light years away affecting the earth before the universe resets, yet Araki decided to just skip that point.
 
Not used to arguing on here, but I'll try.

MIH is stated to work around the idea of speeding up the universe and manipulating the gravity of said universe to achive the effect to have it remake itself, but instead of the same cycle that is meant to happen, MIH changes the fate of the universe which is about to be created.

Also I don't think earth survived MIH's acceleration, Pucci and Emporio was fighting in a Pocket universe Created by Burning Down The House, pucci was then defeated due to emporio using WR to effectively make pucci kill himself with his ability, which msot definetly caused a failiure in the world being recreated it as pucci wanted it too, and considering that characters like Jolyne and Anasui had diffrent names, memories, life expiriences and somewhat diffrent physical apperances (Jolyne/ Irene 's Hair), also the fact that they are stated to be the alternate universe version of said characters?
 
Well in short.

MIH is stated to affect the entire universe change the fate of the universe and everything in it repeating itself over and over, allowing you to change things like, what happens to people or what they become, etc.

But due to Emporio being in the Pocket universe created by BDTH he wasn' directily affected by MiH's universe reset, but you can see the other characters, which has visibly changed and diffrent pasts and somewhat diffrent physical apperances.

So my point was that the earth was destroyed with the old universe and re-created with the new one like everything else, but has a slightly diffrent history,hence why people are simelar but not the same. The keyword being "simelar"
 
Yes, but Pucci would have died before the universal reset due to space reasons, i explained above. If you accelerate time for everything, there will be serious consequences as you may have heard for example the earth hitting another sun in a google years, supernovas, meteors, and who know how many other things. All of which Araki completely disregards, along with disregarding Einstein's theory of relativity, the E= mc^2 and MANY MANY others.

So yes the time stop can be planetary and everything would still be fine.
 
Then on a somewhat related note, assuming this goes though, doesn't that mean we got to change every time-stopper that is states to "freeze the world" and etc to planetary range?

I mean in japan the word "World" or "Sekai" as they pronounce it is often refered to as everything there is as much as it is refered to as the planet itself, in that case it would be changes to more than to just Jojo.
 
But also, another point just to get it out of the way, in the MiH explenation, it is showed the entire universe is colapsed into a single singularity point, which then re-expands into a new universe,wouldn't the earth be moved along with said universe into the singularity? I don't see why earth alone would be an exception, and jotaro's timestop happend before the universe itself actualy ended, so it's not like the earth was frozen in time when everything was collapsing into a singularity point.

So unless earth was an exception amoung literaly the entire universe, I don't see why it wouldn't have been destroyed.
 
I haven't read through the whole thread so I apologize if this point was already brought up.

Diavolo's stand erases up to ten seconds of time. Meaning, ten seconds of an entire timeline. That's definitely a High 3-A thing, as it affects time on a less than universal scale. Thus GER scales via being able to nullify it. It's not about the attack's range, it's about its AP in the sense that it nullifies an ability that erases time on a less than universal scale.

I never thought we treated the parallel universes thing as any sort of justification for GER being High 3-A.
 
Erasing a bit of time doesn't qualify for High 3-A. You're erasing 3 seconds, which are part of an infinite timeline.

Even our rules say so:

  • High Universe level: Characters who have an infinite degree of 3-dimensional power. Alternately 4-dimensional power that is shown as completely qualitatively superior to 3-Dimensional beings, but is less than universal in scale. Or that allows them to create large parts of a universal continuum. Take note that 4-D power should logically always be superior to countably infinite 3-D power, so characters within this tier are not necessarily comparable. Also take note that we consider most small scale time-space abilities as hax, not as AP.
Time Erasure wasn't done by any virtue of it being 4-D, but simply because it can interact with time, which by our standards, doesn't apply, same as how other time manipulating abilities are not 4-D by virtue of interacting with time.
 
Wait who says that their stands can punch that hard? I'm pretty sure that only their hax is classified as High 3-A.
 
Yes but having small scale time-space abilities isn't put under a tier or under AP on profiles, it's just considered hax.

The abilities may be considered to have High 3-A potency in threads, but it's not put as the High 3-A tier on profiles.
 
@Ogbunabali Yes it's just hax that can interact with time, not 4D hax. Just normal 3D hax. It doesn't qualify for High 3-A simply cus it can interact with time, same as how basic time abilities (Time Travel, Time Stop, basically every time manipulating ability), don't qualify for 4D, even though they interact with the 4th dimension, and are not assumed to be any more special than any other 3D hax. So that's our point, their hax is "not" High 3-A, it's just normal 3D hax that can interact with time.

@Agnaa The abilities shouldn't be considered High 3-A in threads either, that's what this thread is trying to do. It shouldn't be on the profile or in threads cus it doesn't qualify for being that.
 
Ogbunabali said:
It erases 10 seconds of a timeline so yeah it should qualify for High 3-A.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. It's done through hax that interacts with time. Again not all time abilities are high 3-A via being able to manipulate time/the timeline.

A time stop is capable of stopping the course of an entire timeline, therefore it's 4D and infinitely superior to any 3D hax? No

Time travel is capable of going against the course of the entire timeline (ignoring the flow of the 4th dimension), therefore it's 4D? No

Same for time erasure, just cus it can erase 10 seconds from time, it doesn't make it 4D in nature. Because it's causing a skip, a 10/Infinity part of a timeline. It's just hax that can interact with time. It has never shown anything about being even remotely superior to any other hax in the whole series.
 
I was under the impression we treated range = potency, considering it erased all of it not just some part across it. But I'm fine if it's just range.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
snip
Click to expand...
What are you even talking about. Stopping time in an entire timeline is 4D, but no one even said it's better than any other 3D hax where did that even come from that's not even a discussion.

I don't see how time travel is connected to any of what we talked about.

It is if it erased 10 sec of an entire timeline.
 
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