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Questioning Ganondorfs High 5-A feat

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Um, it was already debunked being illusionarry or bringing them to Hyrule Castle, the core argument was that it was an outlier, wwhich makes no discernable sense since all the lower end feats with ToP Ganondorf are done casually.
 
It's not Zant bringing him to Hyrule Castle because in the fight the Master Sword is glowing and it only glows when in the Twilight Realm And thanks to the pocket dimension revisions it's an actual realm
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
It's not Zant bringing him to Hyrule Castle because in the fight the Master Sword is glowing and it only glows when in the Twilight Realm And thanks to the pocket dimension revisions it's an actual realm
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I mean, if it the Master Sword only glows in the Twilight Realm that would mean that Zant isn't actually creating separate pocket realms and they would still be in the Twilight Realm during the whole fight.
 
Yeah he's warping the Twilight realm and you can even see when Zant begins the fight that when Zant warps Diababba's boss room the room is much bigger than Zant's throne room showing some form of warping is happening
 
And if this is considered as a feat there's a possibility for a 4-A Zelda if Im right about the final phase of the fight and it not being a total outlier(which likely the case)
 
"it becomes day again whenever you leave Ganondorfs fortress"


No it doesn't. When you visit the Forsaken Fortress and teleport to another island, it stays night until the next morning.

The composer brothers song is literally just the sun song. Assuming the incident in the FF is time manipulation, it does exactly the same thing as the sun song. There is nothing different, stronger or weaker about it. Of course why would he need to steal that song if he can do it himself. For that reason, time manipulation is unlikely.

No one said Ganon is never ever able to manipulate time bc of the composer brothers statement, just that the combination of Ganon never displaying any form of time powers before and the fact that he tried to steal the sun song makes time manip. much less plausible than other possibilities.

Also Ganon doing it manually via TK is too convoluted to be the case so we can rule that out too.

A curse which automatically rotates the planet seems to be the most palusible to me. Of course there could be other things that could have caused it but I am leaving it at that. Only thing I wanted to say.
 
Fireblast966 said:
"No it doesn't. When you visit the Forsaken Fortress and teleport to another island, it stays night until the next morning.
Click to expand...
Huh, I just sailed away from his fortress and it went back to day. Kinda odd it stays night if you teleport out (Or maybe one of our copies of the game is slightly ****** and one of us is experiencing a minor glitch?)

Anyway I never said it's definitely time manipulation anyway (People seem to enjoy not reading the several comments I made of it just being an example of one of the several ways we can interpret the stuff in Wind Waker. Plus as I said it would also be very easy for the developers of Wind Waker to just ignore an optional non-story related statement anyway), my main point as we have nothing of anything to say for sure that Ganon is just rotating the planet. Is he actually moving the moon and sun instead? We don't know or have any indication of what is actually happening and we have no statements to support our specific assumption.
 
I think that the feat is way to vague and should be dropped (sorry Ganondorf) but should I remake the Zant upgrade as it was closed due to this one and unclear terms that we debunked?
 
I'm willing to go back to accepting High 5-A as legit due to Triforce's scan and reasoning; it's clear that it's Ganon's power and not some game mechanic. And we do perceptively see the sun and moon move; also don't directly assume Sun Song is the same concept of the lore statements are different. Sun Song is literally time manipulation yes, and time manipulation is a common ability in Zelda yes, but I see little to no implication that Ganon's feat is time acceleration followed by time stopping.

If we're going to assume it's time manipulation, we'd have to give literally every single character including fodder enemies to civilians resistance to time stop, since everyone can still move during the time period. But that would be absurd given that characters clearly freeze when time is frozen in other/smaller scale time stops. And the only other option besides flipping the Earth would be moving the Sun and Moon Alicorn style, which would upgrade the cast to 4-C, but I'm not so sure about that.
 
If we did accept this as time manipulation we wouldn't have to give everyone resistance to time stop since it wouldn't be a proper time stop, it'd just be a limited form of it that makes it night (Kinda like the Ebony Stone in Castlevania).

Also the fact that moving the sun and moon is another option that is equally possible to planet rotation is one of the main points against our ratings. We have nothing concrete to say anything about this at all, as Oblivion the whole thing is too vague.
 
High 5-A, possibly higher could work. Giving Ganon time manip outright undermines the purpose of the hero of time and when he says "You truly are the reincarnation of the Hero of Time".
 
It doesn't really undermine the Hero of Time, he's mostly known as a great hero who suddenly travelled through time itself to defeat Ganon and save Hyrule, so using a shitty form of time manipulation to create endless night doesn't undermine his purpose at all.

Anyway if truly decide to keep this as some kind of telekinesis feat then we would need to add a possibly or likely 4-C rating since moving the moon and sun is no more unlikely than planet rotation.
 
Well, if the night is truly endless and from pure time manipulation, than it would have to be true time stop. But it can't be true time stop if fodder characters are still able to move freely. So I'm still leaning towards either keeping the High 5-A calc, or upgrading them to 4-C where Ganon also has Interplanetary range.
 
It wouldn't have to be true time stop, it would just be a shitty limited form of it that makes it night. Anyway someone should make a separate thread about the potential of upgrades, since 4-C would have to be on the profiles no matter what since High 5-A has nothing that makes it more valid then 4-C.
 
It sounds odd for a level of time stop where the sun and moon stop moving and/or the Earth stops rotating completely would be "shit levels" of time stop.
 
Creating what amounts to an endless night that doesn't effect people would be shit levels of time stop in a fight since it wouldn't stop the opponent. Thats the level of time stop this would be if it was accepted as time manipulation.
 
But that seems too vague for someone who's capable of stopping time to the point where the sun, moon, and/or earth stop moving and yes they can't stop normal humans from moving. I still rest my case that it's either a High 5-A or 4-C rather than time stop.
 
It wouldn't have to affect the sun, moon, and earth. As an example Lament of Innocence has a forest and castle that is surronded by perpetual night with the moon constantally out despite it being day outside the forest. That's the kind of time manipulation this would be if accepted as such.

Yeah you can make a thread about the potential upgrades, at the very least "Possibly 4-C" would have to be added to the profiles since High 5-A has absolutely nothing that makes it more valid then 4-C.
 
And that comes from a verse full of 4-A to Low 2-C's so that point is moot
 
Dust Collector said:
Huh, I just sailed away from his fortress and it went back to day. Kinda odd it stays night if you teleport out (Or maybe one of our copies of the game is slightly ****** and one of us is experiencing a minor glitch?)
Click to expand...
What you are talking about is different from what other people are talking about.

Everyone else is talking about Ganon cursing the Great Sea to live in an endless night after you make it Greatfish Isle. This is Ganondorf causing a curse on the world, and this is where Ganon's rating comes from.


What you are talking about is when you sail near the Forsaken Fortress, the area around it becomes dark, but when you leave, it becomes day. This is, I am pretty sure, a game mechanic. It appears in other Zeldas as well.

When you go to Castle Town in OoT after obtaining the three spiritual stones, the sky will always turn stormy to initiate the cutscene that happens. In TP, when nearing Hyrule Castle for the final dungeon, the weather will always spontaneously create a light rain and make it bright out even if you came from a non-rainy night. In both these games, the effects disappear if you get far enough away from them.
 
"Everyone else is talking about Ganon cursing the Great Sea to live in an endless night after you make it Greatfish Isle. This is Ganondorf causing a curse on the world, and this is where Ganon's rating comes from."

His High 5-A rating doesn't come from the endless night curse, we treat it turning night when you're near his fortress as the High 5-A feat. The endless night curse is treated as 5-C.
 
Dust Collector said:
"Everyone else is talking about Ganon cursing the Great Sea to live in an endless night after you make it Greatfish Isle. This is Ganondorf causing a curse on the world, and this is where Ganon's rating comes from."
His High 5-A rating doesn't come from the endless night curse, we treat it turning night when you're near his fortress as the High 5-A feat. The endless night curse is treated as 5-C.
Click to expand...
Wait, what? But everyone else is talking about Ganon's endless night curse though.

If you are right then Ganon should be 5-C for endless night curse.

Assuming that he rotates the planet in seconds when Link is near his fortress is ridiculous - that is clearly a game mechanic to make the scenario more intimidating, just like the other examples that I mentioned.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But that seems too vague for someone who's capable of stopping time to the point where the sun, moon, and/or earth stop moving and yes they can't stop normal humans from moving. I still rest my case that it's either a High 5-A or 4-C rather than time stop.
Click to expand...
Can't we just say we don't know the mechanic instead of assuming it's one of two ideas?

Also that High 5-A doesn't make sense if it goes back to day when you leave.
 
Triforce provided scans of the mechanic, and there was other details against the time stop one with support about manipulating objects around. Someone above also mention an Endless Night curse being treated as 5-C though, but what's the source/reasoning?
 
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