Question about this calc (Kinetic energy calcs based on onscreen speeds)

[Jaakubb]

Gravity isn't a calced value. It's a given value, just like the muzzle velocity of a certain weapon or the average speed of lightning. The reason why we can't accept the gravity calcs isn't because it's calc stacking, the reason is because it ratio's onscreen speeds of objects that don't interact/react to a character. Find a better reason if you're correct.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

That was an answer to why you can't calculate gravitational acceleration in general but sure I'll address this as well. Interaction/reaction are not necessary when doing calculations. For example imagine we have a vase dropping from a 1 meter height. Before that vase hits the ground our character is able to run from New York to Washington. Now all you have to do is calculate how much time it takes for the vase to fall and you have your timeframe and the distance traveled and thus you have the speed as well.

It may not seem like it but ratioing is literally the same process simplified. Instead of saying "the lightning travels from the cloud to the ground in x frames and we know both it's movent speed and the distance traveled so we can find how much irl time each frame is equal to and then figure out how far the dragon can swing the sword in a single frame" we say "the lightning traveled y distance in a set timeframe while the sword z distance in the same time frame and the ratio between the distances and speeds is equal since the time frame is too". Really "interact" is a loose requirement that doesn't mean much as if it was necessary then the first example with the vase shouldn't work when it clearly does.

 

[Jaakubb]

The reason why the gravity calc works is because there is no reason to assume anything is happening weird with physics (other than a character being able to run that fast). The same doesn't apply to the ratioing example because it is EXTREMELY LIKELY that an object is being slowed down at a DIFFERENT rate than the character.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

The reason why the gravity calc works is because there is no reason to assume anything is happening weird with physics.

I'll tell you what's happening with physics. When something falls it's supposed to constantly accelerate not keep a consistant speed for a whole 10 sec drop like in video games.

 

[Jaakubb]

Your example was a 1 meter vase drop. Not some kind of fortnite jump.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

The example aside physics gets trashed by works of fiction. The only way I see them being portrait realistically is if it's a live action and the events actually happened and were recorded, otherwise there will always be some inconsistency.

 

[Jaakubb]

There's a difference between physics being portrayed inaccurately due to incompetence (not that I think anyone who portrays physics wrong is stupid, it would be a waste of time in many cases) and things being slowed down or whatever for viewing purposes.

Also, in the vase example, everything is slowed down by a consistent factor. Otherwise the calc wouldn't be valid because of the cinematic time rules.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

What slow down? All the example says is that the character crossed a large distance before the vas hit the ground. That allows for the possibility of it not being slowed down, being slowed down by a consistant factor (vase and character) and it being inconsistent.

For instance the vase can be show falling a distance of 10 cm in a sec in one shot and then in a subsequent shot it can be shown moving slower despite the fact that it should have accelerated because they decided to screw with the slow-mo effects. In fact that example works regardless of solw-mo, the information provided is all you need to know. The time it takes something to fall 1 meter is about 0.45 sec and the distance between New York and Washington is about 200 miles or so... apparently. That's all you need to know.

 

[Jaakubb]

I meant slowed down by a consistent factor if at all. Zero is still a number.

On the other hand, it is extremely likely that in cases where the character and object do not react to each other, they are slowed down by very different factors. For example, bullets being slowed down 10x and a bystander or fodder enemy not being slowed down at all.

Interaction is a good requirement because the only purpose of slowing down certain objects is to show that a character is capable of dodging a fast object while at the same time keeping the media watchable/playable. If they aren't dodging, then the objects are likely slowed down by different factors because there is no need to make the character watchable because they already move at perceivable speeds.

 

[OppaiSenpai5]

This isn't going anywhere so lemme just reference your favorite Occam's razor. I'm making the assumption that eveything in that Sekiro fight that needs to be slowed down is slowed down equaly. You are assuming that it's slowed down and that different things are slowed by different factors.

To be fair you are assuming they are slowed down to a perceivable speed but they are problems with that. First why does the lightning in the background need to be slowed down to the point takes a few frames for the bolt to hit? Second why do you see to accept that we can scale to Wolf to the bolt but can't scale the dragon to it when it's shown to be more than a match for Wolf in combat speed?

You say the dragon is slowed down by a different factor than Wolf even though he interacts with him. And yes that is what you are saying considering the fact that you say he is slowed down by a differnt factor than the bolt that directly interacts with Wolf and thus should be slowed down by the same factor as him.

Again the simpler explanation is that things that are slowed down are slowed down by the same factor rather than saying that things need be slowed down but also move at incomparably different speeds and need to have different factor (the dragon and Wolf literally scale off of one another so not compare their speed to the same onscreen lighning)

 

[Jaakubb]

As for the lightning, I don't know why it's slowed down. And I probably shouldn't have brought up the sekiro thing. Fine, if this method of calcing is ok then the sekiro calc would be fine. Still I think the method of calcing is bad, and so is the sekiro calc by extension.

 

[Jaakubb]

I think I'll ask more people to join the thread. It's pretty subjective, and ugarik seems to agree so maybe more people will help make progress.

 

[Jaakubb]

Yeah I have to admit I made this go around in circles by referencing the sekiro calc. Anyways, it all boils down to whether or not the portrayal of cinematic time is consistent at one moment. I think it isn't because of the many counterexamples.