Question about Pokemon Trainers and Pokemon movesets

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Alright what do I have to prove or debunk…

The proposal is that legendaries like Groudon that are "unique" (not counting multiverse or that type of shenanigans) who has like 50 differents moves, when caught by trainers, that trainer should have a Groudon able to use all of his moves, not a Groudon like Maxie´s one who only has: Weather Manipulation in its presence (Intense heat and sunlight), Earth and Rock Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Energy Projection

And people then added that Pokemon trained by expert trainers should also has all the possible moves learned, in my opinion, possible but I would exclude egg moves

 

[XXKINGXX69]

The proposal is that legendaries like Groudon that are "unique" (not counting multiverse or that type of shenanigans) who has like 50 differents moves, when caught by trainers, that trainer should have a Groudon able to use all of his moves, not a Groudon like Maxie´s one who only has: Weather Manipulation in its presence (Intense heat and sunlight), Earth and Rock Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Energy Projection

And people then added that Pokemon trained by expert trainers should also has all the possible moves learned, in my opinion, possible but I would exclude egg moves

Yeah, with like, no evidence that a trainer's Groudon would have all the abilities. A wild Groudon wouldn't even know all those moves. The profile is a composite

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah, with like, no evidence that a trainer's Groudon would have all the abilities. A wild Groudon wouldn't even know all those moves. The profile is a composite

Legendary profiles aren’t composite. Not in the weird way the wild normal mons are. We’re not taking the best of one species, as there’s only one of them, unless it’s proven that the specific Legendary isn’t an individual (bird trio, Lati@s, Manaphy, Shaymin, etc.)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The proposal is that legendaries like Groudon that are "unique" (not counting multiverse or that type of shenanigans) who has like 50 differents moves, when caught by trainers, that trainer should have a Groudon able to use all of his moves, not a Groudon like Maxie´s one who only has: Weather Manipulation in its presence (Intense heat and sunlight), Earth and Rock Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, Energy Projection

And people then added that Pokemon trained by expert trainers should also has all the possible moves learned, in my opinion, possible but I would exclude egg moves

I do agree with this. Especially after PLA made it so Pokemon don’t actually forget moves. It’s just in different parts of its lineup.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Legendary profiles aren’t composite. Not in the weird way the wild normal mons are. We’re not taking the best of one species, as there’s only one of them, unless it’s proven that the specific Legendary isn’t an individual (bird trio, Lati@s, Manaphy, Shaymin, etc.)

Groudon has one special ability from pokemon conquest, that is the only thing I can see in the "composite" argument

But Conquest is literally Pokemon fighting in a "war" and the ability in question is Groudon healing while bathing in magma, soil or sand, something his lore confirms, because Groudon in Ruby is literally bathing in magma

I do agree with this. Especially after PLA made it so Pokemon don’t actually forget moves. It’s just in different parts of its lineup.

Good to know that my idea makes sense, for me at least, I just want that trainers with legendaries like Groudon can use all what Groudon can do, if normal Pokemon gets also this treatment, I won´t oppose, you are 5000 times more expert in Pokemon than me and I literally don´t want to be involved in anything from new Pokemon games

 

[Arceus0x]

Legendary profiles aren’t composite. Not in the weird way the wild normal mons are. We’re not taking the best of one species, as there’s only one of them, unless it’s proven that the specific Legendary isn’t an individual (bird trio, Lati@s, Manaphy, Shaymin, etc.)

i mean so far we have multiple Mewtwos, multiple Latios, multiple manaphies and shaymins, multiple darkrais and cresselias, multiple CT avatars, possibly more than 1 groudon and kyogre (kyogre in sun and moon), multiple rayquazas (shiny and normal), multiple deoxys, multiple regis, multiple ultra beasts, multiple lugias and thus ho-ohs. So a majority are a species

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

i mean so far we have multiple Mewtwos, multiple Latios, multiple manaphies and shaymins, multiple darkrais and cresselias, multiple CT avatars, possibly more than 1 groudon and kyogre (kyogre in sun and moon), multiple rayquazas (shiny and normal), multiple deoxys, multiple regis, multiple ultra beasts, multiple lugias and thus ho-ohs. So a majority are a species

There’s exactly two Mewtwo. I did say that Eon Duo, Manaphy, and Shaymin are. I don’t…think there’s more than one Darkrai and Cresselia. CT are avatars. There’s for certain only one of the Weather Trio. Like Mewtwo there’s exactly only two. Regis are only however many Gigas made, so there’s probably only two. Ultra Beasts aren’t Legendaries. Multiple Lugias is anime only. And Ho-oh has no relationship with Lugia.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Groudon has one special ability from pokemon conquest, that is the only thing I can see in the "composite" argument

But Conquest is literally Pokemon fighting in a "war" and the ability in question is Groudon healing while bathing in magma, soil or sand, something his lore confirms, because Groudon in Ruby is literally bathing in magma



Good to know that my idea makes sense, for me at least, I just want that trainers with legendaries like Groudon can use all what Groudon can do, if normal Pokemon gets also this treatment, I won´t oppose, you are 5000 times more expert in Pokemon than me and I literally don´t want to be involved in anything from new Pokemon games

Nah fam play Legends Arceus

In all seriousness I’m fine with at the very least just giving the ones that roll up with Legends to keep their canon movesets.

 

[Arceus0x]

There’s exactly two Mewtwo

there's also two mewtwos in games, specifically mewtwo and shadow mewtwo.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Nah fam play Legends Arceus

The only game I could possibly play from the new ones

Sword and shield is garbage for me, ultrasun and ultramoon has too many cutscenes (but are good games though) for my taste and XYZ are incredibly easy because they focused more in the 3D that in gameplay

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Legendary profiles aren’t composite. Not in the weird way the wild normal mons are. We’re not taking the best of one species, as there’s only one of them, unless it’s proven that the specific Legendary isn’t an individual (bird trio, Lati@s, Manaphy, Shaymin, etc.)

As mentioned before, there is no evidence that there's only 1 legendary. Also, why would there only being 1 legendary mean they just have all their moves? This is headcanon

I do agree with this. Especially after PLA made it so Pokemon don’t actually forget moves. It’s just in different parts of its lineup.

They explicitly do, they have to re learn moves

There’s exactly two Mewtwo. I did say that Eon Duo, Manaphy, and Shaymin are. I don’t…think there’s more than one Darkrai and Cresselia. CT are avatars. There’s for certain only one of the Weather Trio. Like Mewtwo there’s exactly only two. Regis are only however many Gigas made, so there’s probably only two. Ultra Beasts aren’t Legendaries. Multiple Lugias is anime only. And Ho-oh has no relationship with Lugia.

The anime is canon, so the Lugia thing you said is wrong. There is explicitly more than 1 Ho-Oh and even Rayquaza, we see Zinnia's and Steven's Rayquaza on screen in masters. There is no evidence of there being only 1 weather trio

 

[Arceus0x]

The only game I could possibly play from the new ones

Sword and shield is garbage for me, ultrasun and ultramoon has too many cutscenes (but are good games though) for my taste and XYZ are incredibly easy because they focused more in the 3D that in gameplay

currently playing both legends arceus and skyrim, having a blast.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

They explicitly do, they have to re learn moves

Gameplay because "4 moves bruh"

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Gameplay because "4 moves bruh"

Why would it be a game mechanic if there's dialogue of Pokemon forgetting moves to learn new ones?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

Why would it be a game mechanic if there's dialogue of Pokemon forgetting moves to learn new ones?

Then you have the anime contradicting what the games can do or Pokken(to give an example) with lucario using more than 4 moves at once

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Then you have the anime contradicting what the games can do or Pokken(to give an example) with lucario using more than 4 moves at once

This thing is different in anime and games, but Pokken is just the same move with more variation.

Also, none of this is evidence that all legendaries have their full movesets

 

[Arceus0x]

Pokken is just the same move with more variation.

wrong, mewtwo uses hyper beam, psystrike, thunder punch, fire punch, ice punch and psycho cut (and some other stuff) in his arsenal in pokken, same with others.

Also pokemon forgetting moves has been revoked, in PLA you can basically just chose what moves should be used at any time and any place.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

wrong, mewtwo uses hyper beam, psystrike, thunder punch, fire punch, ice punch and psycho cut (and some other stuff) in his arsenal in pokken, same with others.

Also pokemon forgetting moves has been revoked, in PLA you can basically just chose what moves should be used at any time and any place.

That's only in PLA, and why isn't that a game mechanic? Game dialogue from other games implies they have to forget the moves

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

That's only in PLA, and why isn't that a game mechanic? Game dialogue from other games implies they have to forget the moves

A yes, in PLA is game mechanics, in the others is not, nice standards

 

[Arceus0x]

That's only in PLA, and why isn't that a game mechanic? Game dialogue from other games implies they have to forget the moves

move tutors don't exist there, move tutors exist in older games. PLA is a story that is canon to the main lore and thus there's nothing really contradicting pokemon learning moves freely. In pokemon manga it wasn't really specified how it worked but in the anime trainers can change up the moveset of their pokemon freely, since there's no evidence of tms being a thing. Pokemon learning changing up moves seems more legit than having to come to some guy who for some reason knows how to change up moves

 

[XXKINGXX69]

move tutors don't exist there, move tutors exist in older games. PLA is a story that is canon to the main lore and thus there's nothing really contradicting pokemon learning moves freely. In pokemon manga it wasn't really specified how it worked but in the anime trainers can change up the moveset of their pokemon freely, since there's no evidence of tms being a thing. Pokemon learning changing up moves seems more legit than having to come to some guy who for some reason knows how to change up moves

In the anime, they can learn more than 4 moves. And like I said, the older games have dialogue proving forgetting moves is canon, so the PLA one is likely a game mechanic. And how is this relevant to proving that any wild legendary knows all their moves?

Ash also recently replaced his Gengar's moves, now he gets dazzling gleam and some other move I forgot

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, why would there only being 1 legendary mean they just have all their moves? This is headcanon

…are you kidding? Who else would have them then? There ain’t some other Jirachi that has the other 2/3 of its moveset.

They explicitly do, they have to re learn moves

No they don’t. You change up your moveset in the menu.

The anime is canon, so the Lugia thing you said is wrong. There is explicitly more than 1 Ho-Oh and even Rayquaza, we see Zinnia's and Steven's Rayquaza on screen in masters. There is no evidence of there being only 1 weather trio

For the last time, Masters is a different universe. And so is the anime.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

In the anime, they can learn more than 4 moves. And like I said, the older games have dialogue proving forgetting moves is canon, so the PLA one is likely a game mechanic. And how is this relevant to proving that any wild legendary knows all their moves?

This is…actively untrue. Older games don’t have that whatsoever. Unless you’re talking about the move deleter, you’re completely making that up.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

there's also two mewtwos in games, specifically mewtwo and shadow mewtwo.

Shadow Mewtwo is Mewtwo but corrupted. They’re the same guy.

The Kalos Mewtwo might be a different Mewtwo to Kanto but we don’t know for sure. In the anime it’s a different one but in the manga it’s the same (not that either are canon to the games though).

 

[Arceus0x]

Shadow Mewtwo is Mewtwo but corrupted. They’re the same guy.

The Kalos Mewtwo might be a different Mewtwo to Kanto but we don’t know for sure. In the anime it’s a different one but in the manga it’s the same (not that either are canon to the games though).

Yeah whatever, not like it really matters, not to mention mewtwo can freely control what moveset it uses. Weirdly enough it seems to be capable of using barrier in practically all iterations of the character despite not learning it naturally

 

[XXKINGXX69]

…are you kidding? Who else would have them then? There ain’t some other Jirachi that has the other 2/3 of its moveset.

No they don’t. You change up your moveset in the menu.

For the last time, Masters is a different universe. And so is the anime.

Where's the evidence that there's only 1 legendary in the world at a time?

PLA's one is likely a game mechanic as the dialogue in other games contradict it

Proof masters is a different universe? And our profiles are for game, anime, manga and more

 

[XXKINGXX69]

This is…actively untrue. Older games don’t have that whatsoever. Unless you’re talking about the move deleter, you’re completely making that up.

Good job ignoring the scan I sent

 

[QuasiYuri]

This is a myth. Its never stated anywhere at all, Pokemon fans just made it up because they don't see that many. There are literally more than 1 Eternatus, one is the one the protagonist caught in Sword and Shield, and then another one that Leon catches

In Pkmn master. Not canon.
Stop using it as canon evidence when it was not accepted as such.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

In Pkmn master. Not canon.
Stop using it as canon evidence when it was not accepted as such.

I already proved that Masters is canon in cal's other thread, can you prove its not?

 

[QuasiYuri]

I already proved that Masters is canon in cal's other thread, can you prove its not?

You didn't. Fooling yourself won't make people buy your arguments you know?

Primary source never refers to it and no authority called it canon or anything.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

You didn't. Fooling yourself won't make people buy your arguments you know?

Primary source never refers to it and no authority called it canon or anything.

Ok, what scan did I use to attempt to prove it? If you don't know, then I bet you haven't even seen the evidence which means you shouldn't be talking about it

 

[QuasiYuri]

Ok, what scan did I use to attempt to prove it? If you don't know, then I bet you haven't even seen the evidence which means you shouldn't be talking about it

References to mainline used in Masters. Which is the inverse of what's needed.

Also if it was accepted as canon it would have been updated, which isn't the case.

Trying to pass or stop CRTs through lying isn't accepted either.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

References to mainline used in Masters. Which is the inverse of what's needed.

Also if it was accepted as canon it would have been updated, which isn't the case.

Trying to pass or stop CRTs through lying isn't accepted either.

That's not even the evidence I used, proving you lied about seeing what I used to attempt to prove masters is canon

This interview explains that the characters are made to fit the mainline canon, including their dialogue
When showing past events in a Masters trailer, footage of Sword and Shield is used

Its also not even accepted anywhere that Masters is non canon, so what you're doing is very hypocritical.

 

[QuasiYuri]

That's not even the evidence I used, proving you lied about seeing what I used to attempt to prove masters is canon

This interview explains that the characters are made to fit the mainline canon, including their dialogue
When showing past events in a Masters trailer, footage of Sword and Shield is used

"You lied"
->proceed to show exactly what I said

Its also not even accepted anywhere that Masters is non canon, so what you're doing is very hypocritical.

It is. Everything not accepted as canon is the non-canon. Stop whining.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

"You lied"
->proceed to show exactly what I said

It is. Everything not accepted as canon is the non-canon. Stop whining.

That's not what I said, its not just "References to mainline used in Masters.", its an actual confirmation of canon

It is. Everything not accepted as canon is the non-canon. Stop whining.

Prove that

 

[QuasiYuri]

That's not what I said, its not just "References to mainline used in Masters.", its an actual confirmation of canon

It's a reference to mainline.
Confirmation of canon would be if it was the other way around.

Prove that

"Prove that 0 isn't 1"
We have a blog whose purpose is to present and explain everything that's canon.
It's not in here, so unless you find a way to add it through CRT it won't be considered canon.

Also, stop asking to prove a negative every single time. It's annoying for everyone in every single thread where you do so.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

It's a reference to mainline.
Confirmation of canon would be if it was the other way around.

"Prove that 0 isn't 1"
We have a blog whose purpose is to present and explain everything that's canon.
It's not in here, so unless you find a way to add it through CRT it won't be considered canon.

Also, stop asking to prove a negative every single time. It's annoying for everyone in every single thread where you do so.

How is it just a reference to mainline when the interview just says they made sure its canon?

We have a blog whose purpose is to present and explain everything that's canon.

The blog doesn't say that everything not in there is non canon. The blog also includes Masters in it, so you're definitely just making stuff up. The Pokemon site even mentions that Masters is part of the game canon

I never asked you to prove a negative. If anything, you're the one making positive claims since almost everything including Pokemon GO is canon, so Masters has little to no reason to be non canon other than "no confirmation", like as if every single thing needs a confirmation

 

[Sniper670]

I'd just love to see sync pairs and Pasio island in main canon

 

[QuasiYuri]

How is it just a reference to mainline when the interview just says they made sure its canon?

Not what they said.

The blog doesn't say that everything not in there is non canon. The blog also includes Masters in it, so you're definitely just making stuff up. The Pokemon site even mentions that Masters is part of the game canon

So Sonichu is canon since the blog doesn't say so?
The blog has Masters and explains that it is iffy + doesn't take precedence over main canon.

I never asked you to prove a negative. If anything, you're the one making positive claims since almost everything including Pokemon GO is canon, so Masters has little to no reason to be non canon other than "no confirmation", like as if every single thing needs a confirmation

GO isn't "almost everything". Almost everything would mean Pokepark, Pokemon Rubble, Pokemon Flipper, SSB, every single Pkmn manga in existence or whatever.

And yes. Things need confirmation.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Again. It’s an alternate universe. I didn’t say it’s necessarily non-canon, but it is very distinctly not a universe attached to this one. Evidence being Giovanni, who outright left the main universe to wreak havoc and wound up in the Masters universe. And a bunch of different characters are pulled out of different time periods. If Red and Blue look like that, Elio shouldn’t even be born.