Question about Durability Negation

[JoshSSJGod]

I've been told before that you cannot resist Durability Negation by multiple people which I believed as those members are much more knowledgeable on it than I am however, I am now unsure after seeing Dante (Shin Megami Tensei)'s profile and seeing he has a resistance to it.

If resisting Durability Negation isn't a thing then how'd it get onto that profile and also shouldn't it be noted on the Durability Negation page?

 

[Antoniofer]

Durability Negation is an effect-like power (and despite its name, it bypass durability most of the time), so there's several ways to cause it, be by manipulating the particles of the target, removing one soul or slice through space. If one to resist it or be immune to it, one need to oppose to the cause (be formless, having no soul or be outside of space for example).

 

[JoshSSJGod]

That sounds more like being resistant to the causes of the Durability Negation like resisting Soul Manipulation not resisting Durability Negation itself like on Dante (Shin Megami Tensei)'s profile.

 

[Antoniofer]

There most be a reason for something as ambiguos as resistent to Durability Negation/Bypassing, it is as ambiguos as resistance to damage. Can't tell what it is, as I do not known the character.

 

[Eganergo]

Since we're talking about SMT, you need to know how the verse works.

The higher the hierarchy of a demon, the more untouchable s/he is. Like higher dimensional but not really.

Basicaly a lot of demons have dura and resistance negation, but as a said, the higher demon can no sell those attacks. And Dante is quite far in the scaling chain.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

That's why I'm confused on the topic. I've been told by multiple knowledgably members that you can't resist it and yet here is Dante with a resistance to it.

 

[Eganergo]

That's why I'm confused on the topic. I've been told by multiple knowledgably members that you can't resist it and yet here is Dante with a resistance to it.

Who said that? Absolute Zero is a form of dura negation too and it can be resisted.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

No no, I do not mean resisting the Hax that can cause it. I mean like in Dante's case just resisting Durability Negation.

 

[Antoniofer]

Although, what you describe sounds more like a Lesser Immunity than resistance to Durability Negation. Durability Negation or Bypassing are too ambiguos in order to simply write that.

 

[Eganergo]

As a said the higher demon can no sell the lower attack.

Example:

Alice (Shin Megami Tensei) uses megidolaon (dura & resistance negation) to Pixie (Shin Megami Tensei).

Reuslt: it's very effective *pixie dies.

Alice (Shin Megami Tensei) use megidolaon to Dante (Shin Megami Tensei).

Result: it doesn't do a damn thing and Dante oneshots.

 

[DarkGrath]

I mean, okay. With the info in mind, it seems like this is up to interpretation.

Like, say, if someone resists hax that causes durability negation, should they also have resistance to durability negation listed?

For a similar example, resistance to mind Manip often causes resistance to madness manip. Should a character who resists both through the same feat have both listed, or just the former?

I feel this is more up to the interpretation and methodology used by the person who creates and edits the page rather than a strict rule one way or the other.

 

[Eganergo]

Yeah i agree with Dark.

Remember that even normal attack in SMT consist of void manip, non existance erasure, etc which already dura negation feats on other verses. You need more efforts than that to be considered as dura negation in SMT.

 

[Antoniofer]

When listing resistances, one in general listen to what power they resist rather than to what effect they resist, both are factible, but being resistent to effect is more difficult to prove.

Having an Mental Shield is the most common example of resisting effects, as it reduces and attack that target the character's mind, be Emotion, Madness, Illusion or Memory Manipulation; examples of resistance to causes would be resistance to Electricity Manipulation due the character being made of a non-conductable material.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Hm. Still confused on if you can just straight up resist Durability Negation or not.

 

[Antoniofer]

As I said, it depends of the nature, Durability Negation is not a power by itself, but rather an effect; just like Burning Inducement, that is generally related to Fire or Heat Manipulation.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

So again, I understand that it is an effect or term that is linked to abilities that can ignore the durability of the victim.

So then why does Dante (Devil May Cry) have it as a resistance? If he resists every form of Durability Negation he should have those as Resistances.

 

[Antoniofer]

Weren't you talking about SMT Dante? Either way, as the Eganergo pointed out, that Dante is simply immune to the powers of being of lower hierarchy, so is not like resistent to Durability negation butresistent to anything that comes from a "peasant" (see the power linked above for reference).

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Apologies I did mean SMT Dante. So if that is the case then shouldn't it be removed as it by itself isn't resistance to Durability Negation and replaced by that ability?

 

[Antoniofer]

Perhaps, I'm not an specialist in that particular verse, I don't have a complete perspective.

 

[DarkGrath]

I feel like it is dependant on how exactly it was resisted

Like, let's say there is an attack which is Energy Projection via regular AP, but it also negates durability. If they can resist the AP of the attack to the point that it is nullified, they'd have resistance to Energy Projection. If the attack is just treated as normal Energy Projection to them, and they are still harmed through the AP, then that indicates they moreso resisted the Durability Neg than the Energy Projection.

Did that make sense? Probably not.

 

[Eganergo]

SMT demons are under heavy revision anyway. Their profile are too outdated. They'll be even more op soon.

Not in the near future though.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Sorry but it didn't. Xenoblade characters actually have something similar with Pierce but they didn't get resistant to it.

 

[Eganergo]

Sorry but it didn't. Xenoblade characters actually have something similar with Pierce but they didn't get resistant to it.

Can someone be immune or resist that pierce? SMT also have pierce. It just counted as resistance negation rather than dura negation though.

 

[Antoniofer]

Pierce is conventional damage, tho? Unless is a power that is called that way. Generally, characters with piercing weapons are capable to oneshot each other within the same and/or moderatly lower tier (unless one of the character has Dermal Armor or Exoskeleton).

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Can someone be immune or resist that pierce? SMT also have pierce. It just counted as resistance negation rather than dura negation though.

Yeah, it can be resisted via equipment or passive abilities. Pierce is just the name though as it works differently from SMT's Pierce (Xenoblade's Resistance Negation is through Chain Attacks)

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Pierce is conventional damage, tho? Unless is a power that is called that way. Generally, characters with piercing weapons are capable to oneshot each other within the same and/or moderatly lower tier (unless one of the character has Dermal Armor or Exoskeleton).

Pierce is an ability that allows you to bypass durability and resistances on a higher level than Almighty Attacks AFAIK

 

[Eganergo]

Um you're talking about SMT or Xenoblade?

If SMT, imo almighty is superior because pierce can't bypass reflect.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

SMT

It can't? I remember it was able to do it

 

[Eganergo]

The inherited elemental pierce can't bypass reflect, i forget about the passive pierce or pierce skill.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I meant the passive/skill one