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They'll likely rarely be used, to be honest, since many characters at that level aren't there necessarily due to calculations. This is only my experience of course, just throwing it out there.Sheoth said:
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Project - Attack Potency revision
- Thread starter Kavpeny
- Start date
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- Tags
- attack potency
- Status
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tbh, i dont think sub tiers are needed, but galaxy level should be revised
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So I have made a chart with the new levels (for now just with TNT), in order to finalize everything. So Galaxy level is at 10 GigaFoe, right? Lower bound for small continent is energy required to destroy russia, as it is the largest country and through that the upper end of large country level (the smallest continent, Oceania, would require less energy than that; This calculation should be checked by someone else!). Aside from that I removed all + categorys and fit things to the OBD scale. In accordance with that I also inserted a small planet level. Did I forget anything?
| Level | Energy in Conventional Terms |
|---|---|
| Street | 100 Joules to 5 Kilojoules |
| Wall | 5 Kilojoules to 0.005 Tons |
| Small Building | 0.005 Tons to 0.25 Tons |
| Building | 0.25 Tons to 2 Ton |
| Large Building | 2 Ton to 11 Tons |
| City Block | 11 Tons to 22 Tons |
| Multi-City Block | 22 Tons to 1 Kiloton |
| Small Town | 1 Kiloton to 5.8 Kilotons |
| Town | 5.8 Kilotons to 100 Kilotons |
| Large Town | 100 Kilotons to 1 Megaton |
| Small City | 1 Megaton to 6.3 Megatons |
| City | 6.3 Megatons to 100 Megatons |
| Large City or Mountain | 100 Megatons to 1 Gigaton |
| Large Mountain or Small Island | 1 Gigaton to 4.3 Gigatons |
| Island | 4.3 Gigatons to 100 Gigatons |
| Large Island | 100 Gigatons to 1 Teraton |
| Small Country | 1 Teraton to 7 Teratons |
| Country | 7 Teratons to 100 Teratons |
| Large Country | 100 Teratons to 760 teratons |
| Small Continent | 760 teratons to 1.33 Petatons |
| Continent | 1.33 Petatons to 1 Exaton |
| Large or Multi-Continent | 1 Exaton to 29.6 Exatons |
| Moon | 29.6 Exatons to 433 Exatons |
| Small Planet | 433 Exatons to 57.3 zettatons |
| Planet | 57.3 zettatons to 2.7 Yottatons |
| Large or Multi-Planet | 2.7 Yottatons to 2.998 Tenatons |
| Small Star | 2.998 Tenatons to 150 Tenatons |
| Star | 150 Tenatons to 350 Tenatons |
| Large Star | 350 Tenatons to 5.709 Foe |
| Solar System | 5.709 Foe to 141.3 KiloFoe |
| Multi-Solar System | 141.3 KiloFoe to 10GigaFoe |
| Galaxy | 10GigaFoe |
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I don´t quite get your calculation I have to say. I am not good with the conversions, but I once calced it at 100 ZettaFoe (10^67 Joule), but that was a shockwave calculation and I am not sure if shockwave calculations should be legit for that high (I would say not for anything higher in any case).
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I don't think we have any sort of benchmark for 3-A yet. Destroying the universe is 3-A. Anything less is not.FanofRPGs said:
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40 yottaFoe (The mass-energy of the observable universe) is generally considered 3-A in terms of destructive power. Even without that, I don't think 100 zettaFoe would be the energy needed to only destroy two galaxies.
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The Mass-Energy of the observable universe is 1e69 joules and usually mass energy is leaps and bounds above GBE.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Also this is the calc I got for 3-B's minimum
"GBE of the Milky Way = 10 Gigafoe
Distance between the Milky Way and Andromeda: 2,560,000 light years
2.058874161e13 square light years
surface area of the Milky Way = 1.63362818e10 square light years
surface area of the Andromeda Galaxy = 7.906760391e10 square light years (That is what I got it is probably higher)
It is a 4.84x gap
Energy needed to destroy the Andromeda Galaxy = 48.4 Gigafoe
Energy needed to destroy the Milky Way and Andromeda Galaxy = 12.6030769084 Terafoe"
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10^67 Joules is the energy required to cause a shockwave so strong between two galaxys that the energy density when the shockwave reaches the galaxys is so large that every single star with GBE and Size similar to our sun is destroyed. What one has to consider is that distance is important for this type of calc, which means, that they are out of proportion to mass-energy or GBE. this calc does something similar for a galaxy and ends up with similar results.
I would also disagree with 40 yottaFoe for 3-A, because the observable universe is only a small part of the whole universe and the whole universe is most likely infinite in size, so infinite energy is required for 3-A.
@ FanofRPGs : You use the surface proportions of andromeda Galaxy if compared to the Milky way to get the GBE of andromeda galaxy. That is a very bad method, but I understand what you are trying to do. But how do you get from the GBE of the two Galaxys to your end result of 17 terafoe?
I would also disagree with 40 yottaFoe for 3-A, because the observable universe is only a small part of the whole universe and the whole universe is most likely infinite in size, so infinite energy is required for 3-A.
@ FanofRPGs : You use the surface proportions of andromeda Galaxy if compared to the Milky way to get the GBE of andromeda galaxy. That is a very bad method, but I understand what you are trying to do. But how do you get from the GBE of the two Galaxys to your end result of 17 terafoe?
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I agree with this. Even if the universe is not infinite, 3-A feats are typically self evident and relying on calcs for them causes quite a few problems.DontTalk said:
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About the energy values, they look good to me DontTalk.
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Yes, the energy valies from the Table look good to me.
Although, do we have an energy value for Small Galaxy level?
Although, do we have an energy value for Small Galaxy level?
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Pretty good job here!DontTalk said:
Although, I kinda miss the whole "+" categories and I still think we should include sub-tiers in order to make things less broad and easier to visualize and understand for newcomers. Kinda more professional that way, imho,
But I'm just being whiny and nitpicking here lol. Don't take anything I say too personal, please.
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The profiles will still have a +, they just won't have energy values (I think they should only not have the + if they're very low on the energy value [Like Planet level for 57.3-60 zettatons and Planet level+ for 60+ zettatons]), and we will still have sub-tiers, they just won't be as broad as the ones suggested above.
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@ FanofRPGs : I was in the midst of writing a long explanation when I realized that you actually just use a different form of the same formula. My bad. In that case the main difference in our results is the fact that you assumed that only the GBE has to be overcome for a galaxy to be destroyed, while my results is for wiping out any and all stars in the two galaxys. My result also assumes the milky way. But I still get a higher result than you for the milky way even using your assumptions (I get 27 teratons). How did you get your frontal area? mine is 7.03E+41 m^2, which is lower than yours, I believe. I calculated mine using ¤Ç*(9.461E+20m /2)^2 with 9.461E+20m being the diameter of the milky way (I assumed it was spherical). Did you find an article with the frontal are or did you calculate it somehow? Except for that we did lowball the values for multi-solar system level by assuming that the explosion wasn´t spherical, but cylindrical IIRC. If that is the case we should do it for Multi-Galaxy the same way.
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That's all perfectly understandable, I just personally find the new scale to be a little too simplistic and broad in it's levels for my tastes. But I can accept it and I'm not gonna pester anyone to make any changes, don't worry. I don't want to be thought of as an annoyance here. ^^
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Not unless it's something very low in the requirement for that level. Like I said, it would go like this:
Planet level = 57.3-60 zettatons.
Planet level+ = >60 zettatons.
Does that sound like it would work? And as I asked earlier, have we figured out a requirement for Small Galaxy level? By the way, for a little help, the smallest galaxy is Willman 1.
Planet level = 57.3-60 zettatons.
Planet level+ = >60 zettatons.
Does that sound like it would work? And as I asked earlier, have we figured out a requirement for Small Galaxy level? By the way, for a little help, the smallest galaxy is Willman 1.
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Would it be a reasonable idea for Planet Level+ to start at being equal to either busting multiple Earth / Venus sized planets or busting a single Super-Earth / Mini-Neptune / Gas dwarf planet like Kepler-10b or COROT-7b?
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Not really, that sounds like Multi-Planet level/Large Planet level to me.
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Small galaxy level would clash with Multi-Solar system level. Because of that I have left Multi-Solar System level in the table and didn´t take the small galaxy level stat from the OBD chart. I have handled MSS preferred for now because it used a calc made here (even through actually finding the calc will be difficult), but as I mentioned somewhere it is up to debate if we want to replace MSS level with a small galaxy level.
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But what is the GBE of Willman 1? According to the old OBD energy scale, that is the smallest known galaxy.
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To be fair, Super-Earth's / Mini-Neptune's are just large rocky planets and have lower masses and diameters than even Uranus and Neptune. I can't imagine their GBE's being any higher than 8x-12x Earth Busting (458.4 Zettatons - 687.6 Zettatons), which isn't even a single Yottaton.The Everlasting said:
Maybe I could calc their GBE's, if that helps?
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To the + thing. I have nothing against using it to show a tendency in results( in order to show if a stat is closer to high or low end) but I don´t think it needs a clear definition (else we could just have kept the + levels). Given that the + of the catergorys were always the higher end of them I guess one doesn´t have to change them in that case.
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Ah, I see.FanofRPGs said:
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So given that we will begin tomorrow we have to get this finished now.
1. Multi-Galaxy: Lets decide on a value. As I said for Multi-Solar system we used a cylindrical explosions "since cylindrical volume is smaller and more suitable for low end." to quote Lord Kavpeny on this. As he first asked me to calculate a level for Multi-Galaxy he also wanted to use that for Multi-Galaxy and I agree with that, we should be consistent.
The calc:
The Diameter of our Galaxy is 9.461E+20 m. I will assume a galaxy is a circle/cylinder. In that case the frontal area of our Galaxy is: A = ¤Ç*(9.461E+20m /2)^2 = 7.030139879814872826E+41 m^2
Our Galaxy is about 2.4E+22 m away from the closest Major Galaxy (not counting dwarf galaxys), the Andromeda Galaxy.
So the Area the explosion has to cover is:
Aexp = 2*¤Ç*(2.4E+22m /2)*9.461E+20 m = 7.133425942947128119E+43 m^2
So the energy the explosion needs is:
(7.133425942947128119E+43 m^2 / 7.030139879814872826E+41 m^2) * 10^54 J (=10 GigaFoe) = 1.0146918930345629e56 Ôëê 10^56 J = 1 teraFoe
So that is what I get for that given method. I think it is reasonable. Use / not use/ check. Go go go.
2. So if not a bunch of people come complaining about something except inserting more subcategories I guess the table as I posted it is ok?
In that case after Multi-Galaxy is decided on I will will add it to the table, convert all units and finalize the scale for tomorrow. (Except someone else wants to do the boring job of converting units)
3. Anything else that has urgently be done before tomorrow?
1. Multi-Galaxy: Lets decide on a value. As I said for Multi-Solar system we used a cylindrical explosions "since cylindrical volume is smaller and more suitable for low end." to quote Lord Kavpeny on this. As he first asked me to calculate a level for Multi-Galaxy he also wanted to use that for Multi-Galaxy and I agree with that, we should be consistent.
The calc:
The Diameter of our Galaxy is 9.461E+20 m. I will assume a galaxy is a circle/cylinder. In that case the frontal area of our Galaxy is: A = ¤Ç*(9.461E+20m /2)^2 = 7.030139879814872826E+41 m^2
Our Galaxy is about 2.4E+22 m away from the closest Major Galaxy (not counting dwarf galaxys), the Andromeda Galaxy.
So the Area the explosion has to cover is:
Aexp = 2*¤Ç*(2.4E+22m /2)*9.461E+20 m = 7.133425942947128119E+43 m^2
So the energy the explosion needs is:
(7.133425942947128119E+43 m^2 / 7.030139879814872826E+41 m^2) * 10^54 J (=10 GigaFoe) = 1.0146918930345629e56 Ôëê 10^56 J = 1 teraFoe
So that is what I get for that given method. I think it is reasonable. Use / not use/ check. Go go go.
2. So if not a bunch of people come complaining about something except inserting more subcategories I guess the table as I posted it is ok?
In that case after Multi-Galaxy is decided on I will will add it to the table, convert all units and finalize the scale for tomorrow. (Except someone else wants to do the boring job of converting units)
3. Anything else that has urgently be done before tomorrow?
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1. Okay. I'll be sure to take that into account when making the edits.
2. Sounds good to me.
3. Maybe finalize a rating for Small Galaxy level.
2. Sounds good to me.
3. Maybe finalize a rating for Small Galaxy level.
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To 3. Well, as I said small Galaxy level would be a value smaller than multi-Solar system because of the different methods used to calculate them and we also don´t really have anything to go on when it comes to small galaxy (I don´t know how to calculate GBE of a Galaxy), so I personally would not introduce a small galaxy level.
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@DontTalk
So should I just assume the value for Low 3-C is either the megaFoe range or low gigaFoe range? It may be a bad idea, but it's just a suggesstion, and it's not like it's really important anyway.
Either way, since I still have school tomorrow and Friday, would it be a problem if I started the edits now?
So should I just assume the value for Low 3-C is either the megaFoe range or low gigaFoe range? It may be a bad idea, but it's just a suggesstion, and it's not like it's really important anyway.
Either way, since I still have school tomorrow and Friday, would it be a problem if I started the edits now?
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There I finished the conversions (except ratio). Any complains about it will have to be dealed with by another admin, given that I will be away from now until tomorrow evening.
| Tier | Level | Energy in Conventional Terms | Energy in Tonnes of TNT Equivalent | Energy in Joules |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 9-C | Street | 100 Joules to 5 Kilojoules | 2.39x10-8 to 1.195x10-6 | 102 to 5x103 |
| 9-B | Wall | 5 Kilojoules to 0.005 Tons | 1.195x10-6 to 5x10-3 | 5x103 to 2.092x107 |
| 9-A | Small Building | 0.005 Tons to 0.25 Tons | 5x10-3 to 2.5x10-1 | 2.092x107 to to 1.046x109 |
| 8-C | Building | 0.25 Tons to 2 Ton | 2.5x10-1 to 2 | to 1.046x109 to 8.368x109 |
| Large Building | 2 Ton to 11 Tons | 2 to 11 | 8.368x109 to 4.6024x1010 | |
| 8-C | City Block | 11 Tons to 22 Tons | 11 to 22 | 4.6024x1010 to 9.2048x1010 |
| 8-A | Multi-City Block | 22 Tons to 1 Kiloton | 22 to 1000 | 9.2048x1010 to 4.184x1012 |
| 7-C | Small Town | 1 Kiloton to 5.8 Kilotons | 1000 to 5800 | 4.184x1012 to 2.42672x1013 |
| Town | 5.8 Kilotons to 100 Kilotons | 5800 to 105 | 2.42672x1013 to 4.184x1014 | |
| Large Town | 100 Kilotons to 1 Megaton | 105 to 106 | 4.184x1014 to 4.184x1015 | |
| 7-B | Small City | 1 Megaton to 6.3 Megatons | 106 to 6.3x106 | 4.184x1015 to 2.63592x1016 |
| City | 6.3 Megatons to 100 Megatons | 6.3x10^6 to 108 | 2.63592x1016 to 4.184x1017 | |
| 7-A | Large City or Mountain | 100 Megatons to 1 Gigaton | 108 to 109 | 4.184x1017 to 4.184x1018 |
| Large Mountain or Small Island | 1 Gigaton to 4.3 Gigatons | 109 to 4.3x109 | 4.184x1018 to 1.79912x1019 | |
| 6-C | Island | 4.3 Gigatons to 100 Gigatons | 4.3x109 to 1011 | 1.79912x1019 to 4.184x1020 |
| Large Island | 100 Gigatons to 1 Teraton | 1011 to 1012 | 4.184x1020 to 4.184x1021 | |
| 6-B | Small Country | 1 Teraton to 7 Teratons | 1012 to 7x1012 | 4.184x1021 to 2.9288x1022 |
| Country | 7 Teratons to 100 Teratons | 7x1012 to 1014 | 2.9288x1022 to 4.184x1023 | |
| Large Country | 100 Teratons to 760 teratons | 1014 to 7.6x1014 | 4.184x1023 to 3.17984x1024 | |
| 6-A | Small Continent | 760 teratons to 1.33 Petatons | 7.6x1014 to 1.33x1015 | 3.17984x1024 to 5.56472x1024 |
| Continent | 1.33 Petatons to 1 Exaton | 1.33x1015 to 1018 | 5.56472x1024 to 4.184x1027 | |
| Large or Multi-Continent | 1 Exaton to 29.6 Exatons | 1018 to 2.96x1019 | 4.184x1027 to 1.238464x1029 | |
| 5-C | Moon | 29.6 Exatons to 433 Exatons | 2.96x1019 to 4.33x1020 | 1.238464x1029 to 1.811672x1030 |
| 5-B | Small Planet | 433 Exatons to 57.3 zettatons | 4.33x1020 to 5.72x1022 | 1.811672x1030 to 2.393248x1032 |
| Planet | 57.3 zettatons to 2.7 Yottatons | 5.72x1022 to 2.7x1024 | 2.393248x1032 to 1.12968x1034 | |
| 5-A | Large or Multi-Planet | 2.7 Yottatons to 2.998 Tenatons | 2.7x1024 to 2.998x1030 | 1.12968x1034 to 1.2543632x1040 |
| 4-C | Small Star | 2.998 Tenatons to 150 Tenatons | 2.998x1030 to 1.5x1032 | 1.2543632x1040 to 6.276x1041 |
| Star | 150 Tenatons to 350 Tenatons | 1.5x1032 to 3.5x1032 | 6.276x1041 to 1.4644x1042 | |
| Large Star | 350 Tenatons to 5.709 Foe | 3.5x1032 to 1.364x1035 | 1.4644x1042 to 5.706976x1044 | |
| 4-B | Solar System | 5.709 Foe to 141.3 KiloFoe | 1.364x1035 to 3.377x1039 | 5.706976x1044 to 1.4129368x1049 |
| 4-A | Multi-Solar System | 141.3 KiloFoe to 10GigaFoe | 3.377x1039 to 2.38x1044 | 1.4129368x1049 to 9.95792x1053 |
| 3-C | Galaxy | 10GigaFoe to 1 teraFoe | 2.38x1044 to 2.39x1046 | 9.95792x1053 to 9.99976x1055 |
| 3-B | Multi-Galaxy | 1 teraFoe to undefined | 2.39x1046 | 9.99976x1055 |
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