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Project - Attack Potency revision

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@Gerdkinerf: All's good up to the Galaxy levels. Then it gets shaky.

@Lord Kavpeny: I know the two of us alone can't make the veredict on our own. However, I'd like to say that it seems that at least some other people, such as The Everlasting, have shown certain disagreement with the revision OBD made, too. So we might just be able to keep the benchmark of standart Galaxy Level (Milky Way) at 100 PetaFoe.
 
I was thinking about this before, but I didn't think you guys were going to do this due to the huge amount of work it will take. Good luck to all who are on the project, this will be a huge process and thanks in advance for putting this much work into the website.
 
I suggest no more new articles are made until the attack potency is revised. Many character tiers will need to be recalculated and many more feats will be challenged. if more threads are made they'll slow down the process and the older articles which are not popular enough will be abandoned and outdated
 
Faisal Shourov said:
I suggest no more new articles are made until the attack potency is revised. Many character tiers will need to be recalculated and many more feats will be challenged. if more threads are made they'll slow down the process and the older articles which are not popular enough will be abandoned and outdated
Click to expand...
That's what we're already going to do. Mass edits begin October 1st, and no other page creation or editing is permitted during that time.
 
I will be at home likely 18 o'clock possibly later at the 1st.

That said, I should be able to make the edits on the day after I get home (I would only need to check 366 articles and the locked ones and there should not be many locked ones that low, also easier than higher levels) I will make a list with the necessary changes beforehand, so that I can work fast.

So we also have to discuss which changes have actually made, so let me just start here (or maybe I should get a separate thread? Well, for now it goes here) I would suggest we only fit the levels that we have as well in the OBDs energy chart. So our sub-categorys (except the "+" ones) can just all keep existing, we don´t have to go around and just rename existing levels and the energy levels of the sub-categroys can stay the same as long as they do not conflict with the remaining energy levels . That is of course only as long as the names are not misleading and everyone agrees. So changes per Tier:

10: No attack potencys at that level. So no edits necessary (which means I actually only have to do 279 edits)
9: OBD Small building level = Our Room level. Per OBD´s destruction chart feats for that would be:
- Blast area of at least 49 m^2 (Approx. 8 m blast diameter)
-About a 7 x 7 m shed/shack is a good minimum.

So that might as well qualifies as a room in a building, so I don´t think renaming is necessary, but if someone disagrees we might as well do it.

Aside from that unifying Street level and Street level+
8: Building Level: Higher bounds have to be raised to 2 tons of TNT.
Large Building Level: Lower bounds have to be changed to 2 tons of TNT, higher bounds have to be raised to 11 tons.
City Block: Lower bounds have to be raised to 11 tons, higher bounds have to be lowered to 22 tons. (per OBD destruction chart)
Multi-City Block: Lower bounds have to be changes to 22 tons, Higher bounds have to be raised to 5.8 kilotons.
7: Small Town: Lower bounds have to be raised to 5.8 kilotons.

small City: Higher bounds have to be raise to 6.3 Megatons.
City: Lower bounds have to be changed to 6.3 Megatons.

Large City or Mountain: Personally I think a mountain level is not a bad idea, but the OBD doesn´t list one. (But I am not sure if mountain is right, but the destruction chart lists mountains together with citys so I would guess it is ok.
Large Mountain or small Island: Corresponds to OBDs small Island level. The OBDs Destruction Chart list Mount Everest as just below Island Level, so one could swap the name in the official chart to small Island or Large Mountain to show that, but I do not think it needs to be edited in all profiles. Higher bounds need to be changed to 4.3 gigatons.
6: Island level: Lower bounds need to be changed to 4.3 gigatons.

Small Country: Higher bounds need to be changed to 7 teratons. They seem to use the average country are as lower bounds (according to the destruction chart), so there are likely a lot smaller countrys. We might want to recalculate this, but it could get into conflict with Island Level, we would have to see what we do then.
Country: Lower bounds have to be changed to 7 Teratons.
Large Country: Higher bounds have to be raised to 1.33 Petatons.
Small Continent: As per their destruction chart their continent Level seems to use the area of north america as basis, even through it isn´t the smallest continent. So either we calc the result here for the smallest continent or just use their lower bounds non the less. In case we calc it it may conflict with country level, we would have to see. Lower bounds have to be raised to 1.33 Petatons otherwise.

Large or Multi Continent: Higher bounds have to be raised to 29.6 exatons.
5: Moon: Lower bounds have to be raised to 29.6 exatons.
Moon+: I would suggest renaming it into small Planet Level, with the boundary of 433 exatons to 57.3 Zettatons. Moon levels higher bounds should be adjusted accordingly.
Planet Level: Lower boundardy has to be changed to 57.3 Zettatons. Upper bounds have to be changed to 2.7 yottatons.
Large and Multi-Planet: Lower bounds have to be changed to 2.7 Yottatons
small star: Upper bounds have to be changed to 164.913 tenatons.
Star level: Lower bounds have to be changed to 164.913 tenatons.

Now small galaxy level in the OBD clashes with our Multi-Solar system level, so we will have to decide which one we want to take.

Galaxy: Has to be lowered to 10 gigaFoe

So I wrote all changes that I think have to be made and my comments to them. Now it is the turn for opinions.
 
I'll go through my opinion on the tiers in order:

10: Nothing to be said.

9: Sounds good. And I prefer "Small Building level", since a small building can only consist of one room.

8: Agreed regarding Large Building level, but I thought the requirement for MCB was 100 tons.

7: IIRC the requirement for Small Town level is 1 kiloton and Town level is 5.8.

7: Agreed regarding Small City level/City level, and I believe the requirement for Mountain level is 100 megatons.

6: Agreed, and I classify 1-1.32 petatons as Small Continent level.

5: Agreed on all fronts.

4: Once again, agreed on all fronts, and Large Star level would be 350.544 tenatons.

3: I disagree with the change, and feel Galaxy level should remain at 100 petaFoe, and Small Galaxy level be 1 gigaFoe.
 
9: Ok let see what other people think.
8: per OBD destruction chart MCB is 2*CB. In other words just the sum of the energy required to destroy two city blocks separately.
7: Well I didn´t find small town mentioned anywhere, so I just took the minimum of town level as the lower bound assuming that the OBD took the lower bound when giving their general level. That could be wrong, but I don´t know better. If you can show me reasoning or a source for that it will just save work to leave it like that. Regarding mountain level that would mean that it is exactly everything between large city and small island. I am fine with that, even through a source for lower bounds would again be nice.
6: For oceania I only get around 225 teratons. So that would be the smallest continent.
I also only get 52 gigatons for belgium, what I would define as a reasonably sized small country (there are some smaller ones, but not much smaller if you don´t count city countrys, I think)
4: we have 350. In my opinion that is close enough.
3: Based on which information? I don´t really know where 100 petaFoe initially came from.
 
9: Very well.

8: Huh, didn't know that.

7: They don't mention a couple things (Namely Large Country/Large Island and Large Town), so I just figured the requirement for Small Town level was 1 kiloton due to their rankings of Raiden and Senator Armstrong (1.25 kilotons). The Mountain level thing, once again, came from my assumptions (Though I don't think it really matters, since I'd say the actual classification for it would be something similar).

6: Hmm... I guess we could also use their highest boundaries of Country level to regard Small Continent level (As in, 710 teratons - 1.32 petatons), since ~2.25x Large Country level as a minimum for Small Continent level seems a too low to me.

4: Yeah, that was just me being a little more exact, it doesn't matter in the least.

3: That is the actual GBE of the Milky Way, the 10 gigaFoe thing comes from the mass-energy of our Supermassive Black Hole.
 
6: 760 teratons if the energy required to destroy russia after my calculation. So that could be a fitting boundary.
Also what I edited in above: "I also only get 52 gigatons for belgium, what I would define as a reasonably sized small country (there are some smaller ones, but not much smaller if you don´t count city countrys, I think)"

3: OK that would make sense then.

7: Hmmm... not sure. Then again a town of an absolutely undefined size, so we can insert pretty much everything >> MCB and << small City for that.

Note: Everything I calc here needs to be recalculated by someone else to make absolutely sure that I didn´t made some error, even simple ones, given how important the edit is!

@Byakushiki Setsura: No.
 
6: Well, contries can wildly vary in size, so I don't think Belguim would count if destroying it is only 52 gigatons, but I wouldn't know.

7: Pretty much.
 
I agree with pretty much all tiers, as well as still propose making a "High 5-A" subsection for a "Sub-Stellar/Brown Dwarf level". And also am against downgrading Galaxy level.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Faisal Shourov said:
I suggest no more new articles are made until the attack potency is revised. Many character tiers will need to be recalculated and many more feats will be challenged. if more threads are made they'll slow down the process and the older articles which are not popular enough will be abandoned and outdated
Click to expand...
That's what we're already going to do. Mass edits begin October 1st, and no other page creation or editing is permitted during that time.
Click to expand...
So until the mass edit begins, new profiles still can be made? 'Cause I saw a few new profiles since the notification of this thread like all the Spideys
 
Byakushiki Setsura said:
So until the mass edit begins, new profiles still can be made? 'Cause I saw a few new profiles since the notification of this thread like all the Spideys
Click to expand...
Yes. Mass edits begin on October 1st. Until then, feel free to make profiles.
 
I see. Thanks for the answer. Don't think I would make new profile anytime soon though... 'Cause I seriously need to catch up with some series to make profiles for characters
 
So me, Sheoth and KamiYasha have Tier 6 and Tier 7 to cover huh. Alright then no problem.

Also on the topic of Galaxy Level. I'd like to see see some proof that the amount of energy required to destroy the Milky Way Galaxy is 1061 joules (not 1061 ergs. You'll know why I added this later on).

Here it's defined that the binding energy of our Galaxy is 1061 ergs. It's also what the OBD uses for their Galaxy Level rating. Now there's something that intrigued me here. According to the link I provided the GBE of our galaxy is 1061ergs and our rating for Galaxy Level is 1061joules (anyone notice it yet).

When we convert 1061 ergs to joules we get 1054 joules or 10 Gigafoe. And 1061 joules is 100 PetaFoe. Now I don't know what the OBD used in the past to get their Galaxy Level rating but I'm pretty sure they used the same thing (as I can't seem to find any calcs for it which results in 100 PetaFoe). The only thing I want to point out here is that it's highly possible or almost certain that they (and us) mistook ergs as joules which resulted in Galaxy Level being 100PetaFoe instead of 10GigaFoe.

As far as I know there isn't a calc which puts destroying our Galaxy at 1061 joules. If there is such a calc please tell me so that I may look at it for myself.

I'm not in disagreement with keeping Galaxy level at 1061 joules. But I don't want to use something if we have no basis for it. So for now I'd suggest making a new calc to define our Galaxy Level rating or finding a calc for it which results in 100PetaFoe if we are gonna use 100PetaFoe as the basis of Galaxy Level.
 
yeah, i was confused by 1 x 10^61 J for galaxy busting, since the total mass-energy of our galaxy (including matter, dark matter and everything else) is only 1 x 10^59 joules

i think the 10 gigafoe sounds ok
 
If our current rating is based on a misconception, than we should of course change it. So 1054 joules would be fine with me.

To add in another point: The GBE of Rigel is the basis for Large star level. But as I noticed when checking the calculation FanofRPGs made in this blog post I only get 9.4*1041 J for the GBE of Rigel. To compare we currently have noted Large Star level 1.464x1042 J (the OBD uses the same rating). So that also needs attention.
 
Since I am not one to get into all of the exact energy levels required for certain destructive feats, I will stay out of that and let the more knowledgeable users handle it.

However, I agree withGohanLSSJ2 in that we should create a High 5-A Tier if possible
 
How do these subtiers sound?

4-B

Low 4-B "Supernova level": The force of a supernova

Mid 4-B "Planetary System level": Energy needed to destroy the Solar System to Neptune

High 4-B "Outer Solar System level": Energy needed to destroy the Solar System to the Oort Cloud


4-A

4-A "Inter-Stellar": Basically destroying a close-by cluster of star systems or a Solar Interstellar Neighborhood tops

High 4-A "Multi-Solar System level+" able to destroy hundreds of light years worth of space


3-C

Small Galaxy Level: Destroying stuff like the Orion Arm or smaller galaxies

Galaxy Level: Galaxies like andromeda and the Milky Way

Large Galaxy Level: Larger galaxies like the Pinwheel Galaxy


3-B

Massive Galaxy Level or Inter-Galactic: Destroying two closeby galaxies or the morbidly huge galaxies like IC 1101

Multi Galaxy Level: Destroying Galaxy clusters

Super-Cluster Buster: Destroying massive galactic structures like the Virgo Supercluster


3-A

Low 3-A or "Spacial Superstructure" level: Stuff like the Sloan Great Wall or huge chunks of the universe

Mid 3-A or "Observable Universe" level: Our observable universe

High 3-A: Anything larger than our observable universe to infinite physical matter
 
That all sounds fine and dandy to me. But if I may ask, what would the energy requirements be for all of those?
 
The Everlasting said:
That all sounds fine and dandy to me. But if I may ask, what would the energy requirements be for all of those?
Click to expand...
That's what I would like to know as well
 
I don´t like the inflation of sub-specifications with that. I wouldn´t devide the tiers in Low, Mid and High. The tiers should group the other things together, so they don´t have to be as specific as the attack potencys themselfs.

Aside from that I would like to keep 3-A just for destroying all physical matter in the universe.

It is the border between finite and infinite and through that of a special importance.


And the last question is how you plan to calculate them. Shockwave calculations do not work for things of that large size (things will be in front of other things a lot) and I doubt you will find GBE values calculated for them (I could be wrong there, but I can not imagine why any scientist would find it meaninful to calculate them). So putting numbers on the given units could be a problem.
 
FanofRPGs said:
How do these subtiers sound?
4-B

Low 4-B "Supernova level": The force of a supernova

Mid 4-B "Planetary System level": Energy needed to destroy the Solar System to Neptune

High 4-B "Outer Solar System level": Energy needed to destroy the Solar System to the Oort Cloud


4-A

4-A "Inter-Stellar": Basically destroying a close-by cluster of star systems or a Solar Interstellar Neighborhood tops

High 4-A "Multi-Solar System level+" able to destroy hundreds of light years worth of space


3-C

Small Galaxy Level: Destroying stuff like the Orion Arm or smaller galaxies

Galaxy Level: Galaxies like andromeda and the Milky Way

Large Galaxy Level: Larger galaxies like the Pinwheel Galaxy


3-B

Massive Galaxy Level or Inter-Galactic: Destroying two closeby galaxies or the morbidly huge galaxies like IC 1101

Multi Galaxy Level: Destroying Galaxy clusters

Super-Cluster Buster: Destroying massive galactic structures like the Virgo Supercluster


3-A

Low 3-A or "Spacial Superstructure" level: Stuff like the Sloan Great Wall or huge chunks of the universe

Mid 3-A or "Observable Universe" level: Our observable universe

High 3-A: Anything larger than our observable universe to infinite physical matter
Click to expand...
Love it!
 
The Everlasting said:
That all sounds fine and dandy to me. But if I may ask, what would the energy requirements be for all of those?
Click to expand...
Low 4-B: 1-2 foe

Mid 4-B: What we have for SS right now

High 4-B Calc the GBE of the entire SS


Low 4-A: Calc the energy needed to destroy two far apart star systems and the GBE of the SIN

High 4-A: GBE of the SIN to the GBE of the smallest galaxy (Which is in the megafoe range)


Low 3-C: High Megafoe to 10 Gigafoe

Mid 3-C: 10 Gigafoe to the GBE of the largest galaxy under a certain size

High 3-C: GBE of larger galaxies


Low 3-B: GBE of IC 1101 or the energy needed to destroy two galaxies

Mid 3-B: Energy needed to destroy the local group to the smallest galaxy clusters

High 3-B: GBE of galactic superclusters
 
Skodwarde The Almighty said:
Y does Pluto get no love QwQ?
Click to expand...
Pluto intercepts Neptune's orbit

I just think it would make it more easy to remember how excactly strong a person is, for example, Seiya. Just saying he is 3-A does not give me clarity really.
 
FanofRPGs said:
The Everlasting said:
That all sounds fine and dandy to me. But if I may ask, what would the energy requirements be for all of those?
Click to expand...
Low 4-B: 1-2 foe
Mid 4-B: What we have for SS right now

High 4-B Calc the GBE of the entire SS


Low 4-A: Calc the energy needed to destroy two far apart star systems and the GBE of the SIN

High 4-A: GBE of the SIN to the GBE of the smallest galaxy (Which is in the megafoe range)


Low 3-C: High Megafoe to 10 Gigafoe

Mid 3-C: 10 Gigafoe to the GBE of the largest galaxy under a certain size

High 3-C: GBE of larger galaxies


Low 3-B: GBE of IC 1101 or the energy needed to destroy two galaxies

Mid 3-B: Energy needed to destroy the local group to the smallest galaxy clusters

High 3-B: GBE of galactic superclusters
Click to expand...
That's great!

But for tier 3-C, then what are we gonna do about the energy to destroy the Milky Way Galaxy? Are we gonna go with the OBD idea of just "dispersing" all the stars off the Galaxy by blowing up the black hole? Because I'm still not fully sold on that one.
 
^ Ooooooooh, nice!

Can we get sub-tiers for the other parts of the chart too? I'd love to see it expanded upon! :D

Maybe something like these ideas, for example?

High 5-B: Equivalent to destroying either multiple Earth sized planets or destroying a single Super-Earth or mini-Neptune planet like Kepler 10-b.

Low 5-B: Equivalent to destroying a single to multiple small gas giants like Uranus or Neptune.

Mid 5-B: Equivalent to destroying a single to multiple standard sized gas giants like Jupiter or Saturn to destroying a a single larger gas giant / "Hot Jupiter" like WASP-12b.

High 5-A: Equivalent to destroying multiple large gas giants to destroying a single brown dwarf.
 
FanofRPGs said:
I just think it would make it more easy to remember how excactly strong a person is, for example, Seiya. Just saying he is 3-A does not give me clarity really.
Click to expand...
Pretty much this. It'd be much better to be more specific and less overly broad about tiers, imho.
 
"High 5-B: Equivalent to destroying either multiple Earth sized planets or destroying a single Super-Earth or mini-Neptune planet like Kepler 10-b.

Low 5-B: Equivalent to destroying a single to multiple small gas giants like Uranus or Neptune.

Mid 5-B: Equivalent to destroying a single to multiple standard sized gas giants like Jupiter or Saturn to destroying a a single larger gas giant / "Hot Jupiter" like WASP-12b.

High 5-A: Equivalent to destroying multiple large gas giants to destroying a single brown dwarf."

@Gerdkinerf Don't you mean Low 5-A and Mid 5-A?
 
Well, after all i've read...

About the name's chart, is meaningless to me, I consider the attack potency revision more important.

An then the whole thing about the energy needed to be Low Galaxy level, Galaxy level and High Galaxy level... I've no f****** clue, i mean, i've never understood how many Foes is 1 PetaFoe or Giga (How many Jules maintains, etc)

I leave it to you guys or the calculations group, they are a more reliable source than i.

Either way, when the massive edits begin, i will do everything i can do.

Then, about Tier 6 and 5 (Whitch is the tier they designated to me, Schutz and Sheot)

Tier 6: No much to say.

Tier 5: Well... We must be rationalized if we consider our planet = Planet level
 
ThePerpetual said:
"High 5-B: Equivalent to destroying either multiple Earth sized planets or destroying a single Super-Earth or mini-Neptune planet like Kepler 10-b.
Low 5-B: Equivalent to destroying a single to multiple small gas giants like Uranus or Neptune.

Mid 5-B: Equivalent to destroying a single to multiple standard sized gas giants like Jupiter or Saturn to destroying a a single larger gas giant / "Hot Jupiter" like WASP-12b.

High 5-A: Equivalent to destroying multiple large gas giants to destroying a single brown dwarf."

@Gerdkinerf Don't you mean Low 5-A and Mid 5-A?
Click to expand...
Yeah, sorry. That's what I meant, my mistake. >_<
 
I don't know... I'm not really a fan of all of the sub-tiers. I think it will add a ton of extra uneccesarry work.
 
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