Problems regarding some COTE calculations

[Zefra3011]

He just says "You really were going to drive that in, huh". This doesn't mean Manabu was serious about hurting Horikita, it just means that Manabu was going to hit her.

Yeah I see that but if you look at the manga/novel it kinda says it would have badly hurt her, regardless, at this point I'm willing to replace that calc with a new one made with the manga as source for distance and everything as it's made by the author, I'll do it myself.

You're still not understanding this.

You miss the main problem here.

It's the assumed speed.

You're assuming a speed for Manabu here, the higher the number, the higher the speed gap.

If Manabu's speed is 14m/s, then Ayanokoji's speed will be 293.72m/s. A huge gap.

If Manabu's speed is lower, the gap will be lower.

In short, the assumed speed is wrong.

Uh, even if I use 2 m/s for Manabu at the end of the day Ayano would still be 20x faster, so "the higher the number, the higher the speed gap" is a no no, the difference is always the same, anyway as I said I'll make a new calc for that based on the manga where manabu would have thrown her at high force since it's stated it would have hurt Horikita a lot, what do you guys think? I just need to find a valid source for a speed to use since the attack is different.

 

[TheShape03]

Actually the reason Ayanokouji stepped in is that that punch/attack was serious, for example there is another scene when 3 students are bullying a girl and Ayanokouji didn't stepped in at all, the point is that Manabu was going to seriously damage Suzune and that's the reason he revealed his strenght

He wouldn't need to hit her with full force to damage her, what Ayanokouji noticed (like you said) is that Manabu was going to damage her with that blow, not that Manabu used his full strength. Anyway, the anime feat can't use.

So another feat where Ayanokouji speedbliztes a girl who is far superior to Manabu and Ayanokouji outspeeading him isn't enough? Just because the anime (which isn't made by the author) animated them as similar speed? When the anime still shows Ayanokouji suddendly appearing? WOW

Touché, in the novel Ayanokouji does not say the phrase "close call", it is also something added in the anime. In that case, I will agree to accept whatever result he gives when calculating the feat from the novel (using the manga as an aid, since it is the most faithful adaptation of the feat).

However, the "close call" justification in Manabu's speed section needs to be removed, and the current "Ayanokouji saves Horikita" calculation as well, until we have the new calculation using the original novel feat.

Manabu should probably still be Peak Human if he's the fastest student in the school (second only to Ayanokouji and Housen), as well as being an expert martial artist.

 

[Zefra3011]

Aight, apparently that's the best thing we can do, and yes the justification in Manabu's profile is bad even the race part, Ayanokouji literaly said "I'll go faster now" and just lost due to external factors, also showing his speed in front of the entire school wasn't a great idea in first place but I'm not really a supporter so I won't do much, I just calculate that feat since I saw it and noticed it wasn't on the verse and I was like "wtf".

 

[Dinozxd]

Glad everyone came to an agreement. We only need 2 staff agreements to finally make the changes.

 

[Zefra3011]

Given the "new" context should we consider it as a speedblitz or an outspeeding?

Regardless, here we go, I want to hear Rogger opinion before change anything tho.

 

[Dinozxd]

Given the "new" context should we consider it as a speedblitz or an outspeeding?

Regardless, here we go, I want to hear Rogger opinion before change anything tho.

Peak Human timeframe would maybe work better for Manabu if we take his current profile into account.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Uh, even if I use 2 m/s for Manabu at the end of the day Ayano would still be 20x faster, so "the higher the number, the higher the speed gap" is a no no, the difference is always the same, anyway as I said I'll make a new calc for that based on the manga where manabu would have thrown her at high force since it's stated it would have hurt Horikita a lot, what do you guys think? I just need to find a valid source for a speed to use since the attack is different.

No, you're still not understanding this.

I'm talking about speed gap as in difference in numbers.

An person 20 times faster than an object which is 1m/s is gonna be 20m/s.

However if the speed of the object is bigger, the gap (as in number) is gonna be bigger between the person and the object.

I thought this is relatively simple, but uh well...

 

[RoggerReggor]

So Ayanokouji didn't have to outspeed Manabu, he could have just sneaked up on him and stopped him.

LOL, I don't know if you are even understanding that scene. Ayanokouji was just eavesdropping on Manabu and Suzune, he had no, LITERALLY NO intention of even interrupting. When Manabu attacked Suzune, Ayanokouji literally just saved her so he could use Suzune better. He saved her at that time just to show her that he knows his pathetic side as well, and that would have made Suzune more submissive towards him. It wasn't written in stars that Ayanokouji would try hard lol.

You still didn't answer how this isn't flowery wrting. A common statement used on light novels is "this character moved at the speed of light". This doesn't actually mean they moved at the speed of light. The writer doesn't actually suggest that the character moves at light speed, It just suggests that the character just moves very fast. I think doing distance between players/Onedara's reaction is better.

To be honest if you cannot debunk it, it doesn't make sense to be like that. Housen is like subsonic currently with a faulty calc (lol yes, the calc uses Ryuuen's face to scale which has a massive POV problem and the result can be increased). So, it should be fine if you remove that, I scaled the same subsonic calc up to around the same level.

Jokes aside, it completely makes sense for that ball to be at bullet speeds. Against Ryuuen, Housen hardly tried, and in that serve, he swung his arm open, this is a cool case of that being higher. We discard the light speed statements only because we have logical reasons to do so.

No? He could have at least be impressed of his speed though. Also, yes, a character's reactions are a good way to decide a feat is an outlier or not.

What? Are you now even pretending that he wasn't impressed?

I don't understand how the statement "it felt like flying" suggests a free fall where Ayanokouji himself states that they "tumble down the slope". Google gives the sentence "She pitched forward, tumbling down the remaining stairs" as a common use of the word "tumble".]

Eh, so you are saying that if "fall" was written, then you would believe it? I can use fall like "falling down the remaining stairs" and the meaning would remain the practically same as "tumbling down the remaining stairs". It doesn't matter where Google uses that word, you cannot give reasons for "it felt like flying". Also, it takes only sqrt(2*9.8*10)/9.8 = 1.42857142857 seconds to fall and it is enough to describe by the term "few seconds".

I don't understand fall calculations very much but Manabu lands on his feet so maybe he doesn't directly tank all the energy? Regardless, our topic isn't Manabu falling 5 meters.

LOL no, when you fall on a body part, you tank all the energy. In fact, you will break your legs if you fall like Manabu. And yep, that isn't the topic, but I was just trying to give a reason why Ayanokouji should be able to do that.

 

[RoggerReggor]

He wouldn't need to hit her with full force to damage her, what Ayanokouji noticed (like you said) is that Manabu was going to damage her with that blow, not that Manabu used his full strength. Anyway, the anime feat can't use.

He was going to drop her on concrete in LN and manga. Ayanokouji had to interrupt and say, "You know anything can happen when you do that." kind of stuff. That should be enough to say that in that moment, HE DIDN'T CARE.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Given the "new" context should we consider it as a speedblitz or an outspeeding?

Regardless, here we go, I want to hear Rogger opinion before change anything tho.

The manga is like very trashy to calculate the feat. While it can be good for people to just put the perception time frames, the manga feat can be calculated by subtracting the distance Suzune was picked up, and surprisingly enough, the distance was only around 10 centimeters if I remember correctly (and the timeframe would be much lesser). Also, in manga, Ayanokouji is already running before Manabu even began the attack, anime is better to use here imo.

Edit: I guess I will try to post my calc on the topic once I get some time (because I am really busy right now). Also, can't we just use the anime distance to calculate the manga feat lol?

 

[RoggerReggor]

No, you're still not understanding this.

I'm talking about speed gap as in difference in numbers.

An person 20 times faster than an object which is 1m/s is gonna be 20m/s.

However if the speed of the object is bigger, the gap (as in number) is gonna be bigger between the person and the object.

I thought this is relatively simple, but uh well...

What's your point then? We cannot directly take Manabu's speed as very high and then begin the calc. 14 m/s is just because wiki doesn't accept us taking literally anything as it comes under "calc stacking". Also, wiki cannot reject all the existing calcs on just this basis. The speed doesn't depend on Manabu's speed alone, other factors like the distance traveled by Ayanokouji have an upper hand in the calculation. The wiki itself provides the speeds to be used in these kind of calculations here.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

What's your point then? We cannot directly take Manabu's speed as very high and then begin the calc. 14 m/s is just because wiki doesn't accept us taking literally anything as it comes under "calc stacking". Also, wiki cannot reject all the existing calcs on just this basis. The speed doesn't depend on Manabu's speed alone, other factors like the distance traveled by Ayanokouji have an upper hand in the calculation. The wiki itself provides the speeds to be used in these kind of calculations here.

Comparing the speed of character's movements with the object in question is recommended over any kind of reaction speed method.

Atleast that's what therefir one told me.

The point is, the difference in speed at that moment isn't huge, but the calc makes Manabu at 14m/s and Ayanokoji at 293.72m/s.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Comparing the speed of character's movements with the object in question is recommended over any kind of reaction speed method.

Atleast that's what therefir one told me.

The point is, the difference in speed at that moment isn't huge, but the calc makes Manabu at 14m/s and Ayanokoji at 293.72m/s.

Tbh if your entire point is how Ayanokouji is 20 times faster than Manabu then I already addressed it.

And lol, the difference in speed at that particular moment when the feat takes place is indeed that huge. I get what Therefir is trying to say and your points, but that would be applicable only if Manabu and Ayanokouji were to be displayed as equals or comparable characters.

There are statements in the verse which confirm that yes, Ayanokouji can be 20 times faster than Manabu. In fact, you shouldn't be surprised if the difference between Ichika and Ayanokouji is same, or possibly even Yagami lol. We get Manabu at 14 m/s because he is a peak human (for now) or higher because he has statements. The thing that Manabu will have pity on her sister is bad because he would never attack her even mildly if that was the case (and I also addressed it better before).

Also, Therefir made that comment when Clout did the calc. The similar queries were raised on Zefra's calcs as well and Zefra was able to defend them and someone posted the novel scans to confirm it as well.

If your argument is how Ayanokouji is relative to Manabu in the brawl they have later just after the feat, then I am going to cut it down to "I don't know, ask Ayanokouji." because we can clearly see Ayanokouji dodging his punches very easily and without even going hard. The people who could make Ayanokouji even use his true abilities first were Tsukishiro and Shiba, and they both should be massively superior to Manabu.

 

[Zefra3011]

The manga is like very trashy to calculate the feat. While it can be good for people to just put the perception time frames, the manga feat can be calculated by subtracting the distance Suzune was picked up, and surprisingly enough, the distance was only around 10 centimeters if I remember correctly (and the timeframe would be much lesser). Also, in manga, Ayanokouji is already running before Manabu even began the attack, anime is better to use here imo.

Edit: I guess I will try to post my calc on the topic once I get some time (because I am really busy right now). Also, can't we just use the anime distance to calculate the manga feat lol?

The anime just change the scene itself so... And no we shouldnt take the distance in the anime just because it's higher.

 

[Nierre]

Not sure what developments have gone underway in this thread, but I definitely agree with removing the first two calcs. Neutral on the third, not knowledgeable on that to give an opinion.

 

[TheShape03]

He was going to drop her on concrete in LN and manga. Ayanokouji had to interrupt and say, "You know anything can happen when you do that." kind of stuff. That should be enough to say that in that moment, HE DIDN'T CARE.

Good point, I guess the guy is more violent than I thought.

Also, in manga, Ayanokouji is already running before Manabu even began the attack, anime is better to use here imo.

Also, can't we just use the anime distance to calculate the manga feat lol?

The anime shows a remarkably different scene from the manga and novel, so the original material takes priority. Additionally, the manga is a much more faithful adaptation of the novel than the anime, and the manga was made by its creator while the anime was not.

Well, I think it still remains to be discussed whether the description of Housen's feat uses flowery language or not, but for my part I will only remain neutral on that topic.

 

[blatgotyahat]

Ahem...

He is not a boxer, but that doesn't mean he is not a martial artist. Also, he should be comparable to Housen at the least who evaded a kick from Ryuuen which is if I remember correctly, at subsonic for now.

Also, stop with this "Why is Ayanokouji 20 times faster than Manabu?" argument. Manabu is a martial artist, he has trained, but Ayanokouji trained for like 90% of his life for like every day. When he met Ichika, he ranked himself at 100 while her at just 5, which makes him 20 times better than Ichika, but then only, Ichika was able to get around 20 only (and that still cannot be confirmed). Ayanokouji ranked a white room student at being 20 times weaker than him, Manabu here is just a small dust in front of Ayanokouji.

100 and 5? He never outright said she was a 5 lmao, he was talkikg about the opponents skills increasing by 5 etc, not her being a "5".

The whole "He's 20 times faster" thing is just dumb

this is what he said @MorrisHatesYou

 

[RoggerReggor]

The anime just change the scene itself so... And no we shouldnt take the distance in the anime just because it's higher.

But the manga is not a good source to calculate it.

You used the reaction and perceptions timeframes, but they aren't even supposed to be used because neither did Ayanokouji do it in Manabu's FOV frame nor was Manabu supposed to react to Ayanokouji. The only way you can calculate is to find the distance Manabu lifted Suzune up in that timeframe which is impossible because it is very less, and the manga doesn't show that. The manga also shows Ayanokouji already making a run for it.

Not lying I respect your attempt but when I found my own calc on the topic which I made like months ago and has a much bigger result, I was surprised by how unreliable the manga is and I have decided not to put it now. Also, it isn't a compulsion that you can use only light novel feats, Ryuuen throwing stuff is not argued for that much, so I don't think it is wrong. The verse page itself has all the three categories of manga, anime and light novel.

 

[RoggerReggor]

100 and 5? He never outright said she was a 5 lmao, he was talkikg about the opponents skills increasing by 5 etc, not her being a "5".

The whole "He's 20 times faster" thing is just dumb

this is what he said @MorrisHatesYou

He mentioned it right after he blitzed Ichika, it should be kind of obvious.

 

[Dinozxd]

LOL, I don't know if you are even understanding that scene. Ayanokouji was just eavesdropping on Manabu and Suzune, he had no, LITERALLY NO intention of even interrupting. When Manabu attacked Suzune, Ayanokouji literally just saved her so he could use Suzune better. He saved her at that time just to show her that he knows his pathetic side as well, and that would have made Suzune more submissive towards him. It wasn't written in stars that Ayanokouji would try hard lol.

You misunderstood my comment. I said that because I just didn't understand why you brought up Ayanokouji's Stealth Mastery in a speed feat

Jokes aside, it completely makes sense for that ball to be at bullet speeds. Against Ryuuen, Housen hardly tried, and in that serve, he swung his arm open, this is a cool case of that being higher. We discard the light speed statements only because we have logical reasons to do so.

"makes sense" doesn't mean it's not flowery writing. You still didn't give me any reason why this isn't flowery writing.

Eh, so you are saying that if "fall" was written, then you would believe it? I can use fall like "falling down the remaining stairs" and the meaning would remain the practically same as "tumbling down the remaining stairs". It doesn't matter where Google uses that word, you cannot give reasons for "it felt like flying". Also, it takes only sqrt(2*9.8*10)/9.8 = 1.42857142857 seconds to fall and it is enough to describe by the term "few seconds".

How many times do I have to say this? "It felt like flying" doesn't suggest actually flying. Ayanokouji would say "We were flying" if this was a free fall situation, not "It felt like flying".

If your argument is how Ayanokouji is relative to Manabu in the brawl they have later just after the feat, then I am going to cut it down to "I don't know, ask Ayanokouji." because we can clearly see Ayanokouji dodging his punches very easily and without even going hard. The people who could make Ayanokouji even use his true abilities first were Tsukishiro and Shiba, and they both should be massively superior to Manabu.

Ayanokouji wasn't going all out vs Manabu, yes. But the speed difference displayed in the fight isn't as much as 20 times as well. It doesn't make sense why Ayanokouji would display the actual speed difference between himself and Manabu (he first showed his actual strength vs Tsukishiro and Shiba like you said). Regardless, Zefra made a recalculation of the feat using the manga version which looks good in my opinion.

He mentioned it right after he blitzed Ichika, it should be kind of obvious.

He says "Amasawa's fighting skills" at the start of the statement. Ayanokouji rates Ichika's fighting skill, not strength or speed.

 

[RoggerReggor]

You misunderstood my comment. I said that because I just didn't understand why you brought up Ayanokouji's Stealth Mastery in a speed feat

Just brought up stealth mastery to explain that Manabu wouldn't know even if Ayanokouji came behind him.

"makes sense" doesn't mean it's not flowery writing. You still didn't give me any reason why this isn't flowery writing.

Wait, give me a reason on why Housen should be unable to perform that feat and it should be flowery language, I don't want this to be a circle.

How many times do I have to say this? "It felt like flying" doesn't suggest actually flying. Ayanokouji would say "We were flying" if this was a free fall situation, not "It felt like flying".

Ahem, "it felt like flying" can very well suggest that they were flying. If he was against the ground then he would rotate, which actually contradicts the fact that Ayanokouji was able to hold Suzune upright.

Ayanokouji wasn't going all out vs Manabu, yes. But the speed difference displayed in the fight isn't as much as 20 times as well. It doesn't make sense why Ayanokouji would display the actual speed difference between himself and Manabu (he first showed his actual strength vs Tsukishiro and Shiba like you said). Regardless, Zefra made a recalculation of the feat using the manga version which looks good in my opinion.

Blatantly missed. He first had to try hard against Tsukishiro and Shiba, nothing like he first showed his actual strength there. And lol, he didn't show his actual strength there as well.

And Zefra's calc is not good, it uses reaction or perception which are both inapplicable as I mentioned already.

He says "Amasawa's fighting skills" at the start of the statement. Ayanokouji rates Ichika's fighting skill, not strength or speed.

Ok, so are you legit just saying that Ichika got blitzed because she has a "skill issue"?

 

[Dinozxd]

Just brought up stealth mastery to explain that Manabu wouldn't know even if Ayanokouji came behind him.

I don't understand how that relates to our topic but ok.

Wait, give me a reason on why Housen should be unable to perform that feat and it should be flowery language, I don't want this to be a circle.

Because the author would bring more details to the speed of the tennis ball, rather than just saying it was traveling at the speed of a bullet. Also, one of the volleys that Housen serves which should travel as fast and powerful as a bullet actually hits Onedara and she only falls down. Onedara should have Athletic Human lvl durability at best as anything over that would be an outlier since even the high tiers of the series don't even perform any Wall lvl feats. The KE of the ball should be: 0.5*0.0577*253^2 = 1846.65965 Joules
17 times difference. This ball should have knocked Onedara out and massively injure her but it just made her lose balance.

Blatantly missed. He first had to try hard against Tsukishiro and Shiba, nothing like he first showed his actual strength there. And lol, he didn't show his actual strength there as well.

I literally told you the same thing. And yes, he tried hard vs Shiba and Tsukishiro. That is unrelated to the topic here, so let's just drop that and bring it up again in the scaling chain thread I'm planning to make.

And Zefra's calc is not good, it uses reaction or perception which are both inapplicable as I mentioned already.

Don't understand why It's not good. Let's assume that Manabu is going to slam Horikita to the ground in Baseline Superhuman speed. It might be higher but he probably has to move his arms around 1 meter to slam Horikita to the ground. That would make the timeframe 0.08 seconds which is literally the same thing (although I think Peak Human timeframe is better because Manabu has Peak Human speed). I agree with you about the usage of 0.029s being invalid.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Because the author would bring more details to the speed of the tennis ball, rather than just saying it was traveling at the speed of a bullet. Also, one of the volleys that Housen serves which should travel as fast and powerful as a bullet actually hits Onedara and she only falls down. Onedara should have Athletic Human lvl durability at best as anything over that would be an outlier since even the high tiers of the series don't even perform any Wall lvl feats. The KE of the ball should be: 0.5*0.0577*253^2 = 1846.65965 Joules
17 times difference. This ball should have knocked Onedara out and massively injure her but it just made her lose balance.

Onodera should be a mini Ibuki at the least, and you shouldn't be surprised if she has half of her durability. Also, she involuntarily dropped her racket by being surprised and terrified. You shouldn't automatically assume Onodera's tier. Also, Agnaa did mention that it was a just a graze against her cheek, so she wouldn't tank all the KE of the ball, in fact, the only reason why he rejected the KE calc was because she wouldn't tank all of the KE.

I guess this should be cleared now.

Don't understand why It's not good. Let's assume that Manabu is going to slam Horikita to the ground in Baseline Superhuman speed. It might be higher but he probably has to move his arms around 1 meter to slam Horikita to the ground. That would make the timeframe 0.08 seconds which is literally the same thing (although I think Peak Human timeframe is better because Manabu has Peak Human speed).

0.08 seconds is the timeframe for peak human reactions. Now, let me explain this to you in very much detail, and this is also to everyone who are trying to say that Zefra should have the manga calc correct.

See, we are basically scaling Ayanokouji's attack on Manabu (technically not even an attack but it is just him grabbing his arm). Manabu on the other hand is attacking Suzune at the same time. So, for us to take a 0.08 second timeframe, we would need to justify that Manabu is legit putting all his focus to react to Ayanokouji's attack, otherwise, the 0.08 second timeframe would be a random timeframe assumption and nothing else.

For us to take that, Manabu should be facing Ayanokouji, or at least be aware of his presence, which is not the case as we know. Manabu is unknown of Ayanokouji's presence, so we cannot say that Manabu will be trying to react to Ayanokouji's attack in any way.

Let me give you an example. When you are testing your reactions, you put all your focus on a thing, and even then, you might not get past athletic reactions (I mostly get around 0.2 seconds) even when I am fully concentrating and aware of the thing happening, and Manabu here has no idea of the thing happening, he isn't getting perception-blitzed, reaction-blitzed, but just having himself being outsped, and that's what's the case here. Ayanokouji wouldn't even be in Manabu's FOV.

 

[Dinozxd]

Onodera should be a mini Ibuki at the least, and you shouldn't be surprised if she has half of her durability. Also, she involuntarily dropped her racket by being surprised and terrified. You shouldn't automatically assume Onodera's tier. Also, Agnaa did mention that it was a just a graze against her cheek, so she wouldn't tank all the KE of the ball, in fact, the only reason why he rejected the KE calc was because she wouldn't tank all of the KE.

There is no way Onedara is comparable to Ibuki or even have half the dura as her. Ibuki is a martial artist and Onedara is your average student (all ANHS students who are below Ibuki are Average human lvl in the verse page). I'm pretty sure you didn't read the source I linked. Onedara got hit by one of Housen's serves as well and I linked that. I know Onedara didn't tank Housen's first serve.

0.08 seconds is the timeframe for peak human reactions. Now, let me explain this to you in very much detail, and this is also to everyone who are trying to say that Zefra should have the manga calc correct.

See, we are basically scaling Ayanokouji's attack on Manabu (technically not even an attack but it is just him grabbing his arm). Manabu on the other hand is attacking Suzune at the same time. So, for us to take a 0.08 second timeframe, we would need to justify that Manabu is legit putting all his focus to react to Ayanokouji's attack, otherwise, the 0.08 second timeframe would be a random timeframe assumption and nothing else.

For us to take that, Manabu should be facing Ayanokouji, or at least be aware of his presence, which is not the case as we know. Manabu is unknown of Ayanokouji's presence, so we cannot say that Manabu will be trying to react to Ayanokouji's attack in any way.

Let me give you an example. When you are testing your reactions, you put all your focus on a thing, and even then, you might not get past athletic reactions (I mostly get around 0.2 seconds) even when I am fully concentrating and aware of the thing happening, and Manabu here has no idea of the thing happening, he isn't getting perception-blitzed, reaction-blitzed, but just having himself being outsped, and that's what's the case here. Ayanokouji wouldn't even be in Manabu's FOV.

You are misunderstanding my comment again. I didn't say anything about Ayanokouji being in Manabu's FOV or Ayanokouji blitzing him. The timeframe is the same even when we find the timeframe of Ayanokouji stopping Manabu before he slams Horikita down to the ground. Please re-read my comment.

 

[RoggerReggor]

There is no way Onedara is comparable to Ibuki or even have half the dura as her. Ibuki is a martial artist and Onedara is your average student (all ANHS students who are below Ibuki are Average human lvl in the verse page). I'm pretty sure you didn't read the source I linked. Onedara got hit by one of Housen's serves as well and I linked that. I know Onedara didn't tank Housen's first serve.

Kushida can tank Ichika's punches (but she cried with pain though). Gotta say that Onodera should be much superior to Ichika.

You are misunderstanding my comment again. I didn't say anything about Ayanokouji being in Manabu's FOV or Ayanokouji blitzing him. The timeframe is the same even when we find the timeframe of Ayanokouji stopping Manabu before he slams Horikita down to the ground. Please re-read my comment.

The timeframe is not the same, it is technically unobtainable without any assumptions.

 

[Dinozxd]

Kushida can tank Ichika's punches (but she cried with pain though). Gotta say that Onodera should be much superior to Ichika.

No.

The timeframe is not the same, it is technically unobtainable without any assumptions.

You can just ask Zefra to re-do the calculation with your suggestion then. He'll probably give a better reasoning than me on why he used 0.08s because he is the one who made the calculation in the first place.


Let's just stop clogging up this thread and wait for staff to evaluate it.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

Tbh if your entire point is how Ayanokouji is 20 times faster than Manabu then I already addressed it.

And lol, the difference in speed at that particular moment when the feat takes place is indeed that huge. I get what Therefir is trying to say and your points, but that would be applicable only if Manabu and Ayanokouji were to be displayed as equals or comparable characters.

There are statements in the verse which confirm that yes, Ayanokouji can be 20 times faster than Manabu. In fact, you shouldn't be surprised if the difference between Ichika and Ayanokouji is same, or possibly even Yagami lol. We get Manabu at 14 m/s because he is a peak human (for now) or higher because he has statements. The thing that Manabu will have pity on her sister is bad because he would never attack her even mildly if that was the case (and I also addressed it better before).

Also, Therefir made that comment when Clout did the calc. The similar queries were raised on Zefra's calcs as well and Zefra was able to defend them and someone posted the novel scans to confirm it as well.

If your argument is how Ayanokouji is relative to Manabu in the brawl they have later just after the feat, then I am going to cut it down to "I don't know, ask Ayanokouji." because we can clearly see Ayanokouji dodging his punches very easily and without even going hard. The people who could make Ayanokouji even use his true abilities first were Tsukishiro and Shiba, and they both should be massively superior to Manabu.

I don't have any problem with Ayanokoji being a lot faster than Manabu outside of this feat. I'm talking about this feat specifically.

If you think Ayanokoji is 293.72m/s while Manabu is 14m/s at that particular moment, then, alright.
Let's wait for staffs to see this.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

100 and 5? He never outright said she was a 5 lmao, he was talkikg about the opponents skills increasing by 5 etc, not her being a "5".

The whole "He's 20 times faster" thing is just dumb

this is what he said @MorrisHatesYou

Lol
I think this is based on mere guesswork, unless there are more evidences.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Can anyone write a tldr?

 

[Dinozxd]

Can anyone write a tldr?

This thread was about pointing out the problems about some calculations regarding Classroom Of the Elite. GarrixianXD pointed out the fact that none of these calculations went through a CRT to get added to the verse page even though they were upgrading the verse. I'm suggesting for the removal of these calculations from the verse page.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Then why no one created a CRT to add them to the verse page?

 

[Dinozxd]

Then why no one created a CRT to add them to the verse page?

I didn't get an answer about that from the verse supporters, sadly.

 

[RoggerReggor]

No.

Yes? Ichika is superior to Housen easily. If Kushida can take on Ichika face-on punches, then it shouldn't be difficult for Onodera to take ball grazes.

You can just ask Zefra to re-do the calculation with your suggestion then. He'll probably give a better reasoning than me on why he used 0.08s because he is the one who made the calculation in the first place.

As I said, I can ask Zefra to re-do it. But it's impossible to do it correctly in the first place.

I don't have any problem with Ayanokoji being a lot faster than Manabu outside of this feat. I'm talking about this feat specifically.

If you think Ayanokoji is 293.72m/s while Manabu is 14m/s at that particular moment, then, alright.
Let's wait for staffs to see this.

I don't get your point. What do you mean by "this feat"? If you are talking about Ayanokouji visually not being a lot faster than Manabu then that doesn't add up because the frame was never focused on Ayanokouji.

Then why no one created a CRT to add them to the verse page?

No idea honestly. I agree that a CRT should be made to add them to the verse page, but here we go. I guess this one serves well.

Also, a small thing, I didn't add the Housen striking the ball calc (even though I am the one who made the blog), I have no idea when it was added breh. But Agnaa did mention it was fine to add it so I think a verse supporter just saw that and added it.

Edit: I have also given my input on the stuff when someone was warned for putting the calc on the page.

 

[MorrisHatesYou]

I don't get your point. What do you mean by "this feat"?

If you are talking about Ayanokouji visually not being a lot faster than Manabu

Yes

than Manabu then that doesn't add up because the frame was never focused on Ayanokouji.

Not sure about that, I'll rather let staffs decide it.

I also thought the anime could've animated that incorrectly. Given how the anime doesn't animate a lot of things correctly for COTE. So I'm neutral for now.

 

[Dinozxd]

Yes? Ichika is superior to Housen easily. If Kushida can take on Ichika face-on punches, then it shouldn't be difficult for Onodera to take ball grazes.

Again, Kushida and Onedara is not comparable at all also Ichika likely held back during that "fight" as White Roomers mostly do that.

Also everyone in the verse scaling to Ibuki's 4 KJ feat is really dumb when even Ayanokouji stated that Ibuki's kicks would deal significant damage to him if it landed as I remember. I'll argue about that in a later CRT I'm planning to make.

As I said, I can ask Zefra to re-do it. But it's impossible to do it correctly in the first place.

You guys should just give up on the feat if that's the case then.

Also, a small thing, I didn't add the Housen striking the ball calc (even though I am the one who made the blog), I have no idea when it was added breh. But Agnaa did mention it was fine to add it so I think a verse supporter just saw that and added it.

Edit: I have also given my input on the stuff when someone was warned for putting the calc on the page.

Isn't making a CRT about an accepted calculation that upgrades a lot of characters in the verse a general rule though?

We're not accusing you of adding the calculations to the page btw. I think you misunderstood that part.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Again, Kushida and Onedara is not comparable at all also Ichika likely held back during that "fight" as White Roomers mostly do that.

Onodera should be superior to Kushida, never said they should be comparable. Onodera at least has athletic statements, while Kushida doesn't. Also, yep, you can argue that Ichika held back in that case. But let's be real here, you possibly cannot argue about how much did Onodera actually tank. And it's not like Onodera remained calm after that, she was aching with pain.

Also everyone in the verse scaling to Ibuki's 4 KJ feat is really dumb when even Ayanokouji stated that Ibuki's kicks would deal significant damage to him if it landed as I remember. I'll argue about that in a later CRT I'm planning to make.

Too idiotic because Ibuki couldn't do crap against an Ichika who was on the verse of collapse, Ayanokouji is still a big fish for her. Even if you read it you shouldn't forget weak points stuff. Ibuki aimed at Ayanokouji's face and under the jaw, your durability doesn't do anything, in fact, you can knock down a street level peak human with just average human AP if you hit it well. Same goes with Manabu. Also, I am damn sure COTE's author wanted Ayanokouji to be comparable to other characters of the verse at the start, but you can clearly see how his idea seems to be changed. After volume 0, this shouldn't be a debate that Ayanokouji legit just solos his own verse.

You guys should just give up on the feat if that's the case then.

What's this? You cannot say that. We took an anime-only feat to get Ryuuen's LS. This shouldn't be bad at the least.

Isn't making a CRT about an accepted calculation that upgrades a lot of characters in the verse a general rule though?

We're not accusing you of adding the calculations to the page btw. I think you misunderstood that part.

Yep, that's the rule. But most of the verse supporters are inactive. They literally were found by one of my friends in YouTube comments. I guess they probably listed the feats on the verse page primarily because of Agnaa's statements. (Not blaming Agnaa here in any way)

 

[Dinozxd]

Onodera should be superior to Kushida, never said they should be comparable. Onodera at least has athletic statements, while Kushida doesn't. Also, yep, you can argue that Ichika held back in that case.

I mean sure but what would that even change? Ichika was clearly holding back aganist Kushida and was only slapping her. Kushida never showed a physical ability above an average human so she could be scaled to Average Human AP where Onodera could be scaled to Athletic Human dura as she has Athletic statements.

But let's be real here, you possibly cannot argue about how much did Onodera actually tank. And it's not like Onodera remained calm after that, she was aching with pain.

Cmon bruh. She didn't even fall down from an attack that is 17 times higher than her durability. Even a 2 times difference would have done that much damage. The actual AP of the attack being that much higher than Onodera's durability is just an outlier.

Too idiotic because Ibuki couldn't do crap against an Ichika who was on the verse of collapse, Ayanokouji is still a big fish for her.

Ibuki severly damaged Ichika in that fight with one punch. Yes you can argue that Ichika wasn't at full power but Ibuki who specialized in kicks didn't even use her kicks to damage her this much. I wouldn't say neither Ibuki or Ichika was at full power there.

Even if you read it you shouldn't forget weak points stuff. Ibuki aimed at Ayanokouji's face and under the jaw, your durability doesn't do anything, in fact, you can knock down a street level peak human with just average human AP if you hit it well.

Ayanokouji only talks about weak points on a humans body aganist Albert. He doesn't state that vs Ibuki. Ayanokouji had to take Ibuki out fast because the things could go bad for him if he "plays around" (this statement came from Koji himself btw).

Also, I am damn sure COTE's author wanted Ayanokouji to be comparable to other characters of the verse at the start,

Ayanokouji never gets a stat amp throughout the series as I know so If he's comparable to the characters in y1, he is comparable currently as well (although I agree that Prime Ayanokouji would solo the verse).

What's this? You cannot say that. We took an anime-only feat to get Ryuuen's LS. This shouldn't be bad at the least.

Ryuuen's anime only LS feat doesn't really change the context of the fight where this anime only feat changes it a lot. I say we go with the better presentation of the feat to calculate.

Yep, that's the rule. But most of the verse supporters are inactive. They literally were found by one of my friends in YouTube comments. I guess they probably listed the feats on the verse page primarily because of Agnaa's statements. (Not blaming Agnaa here in any way)

Yeah but this doesn't really justify anything. A mistake is a mistake.

Our disscusion is really clogging up this thread so please let's just wait for staff members to evaluate the thread. We can talk about the inverse stuff later.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I mean sure but what would that even change? Ichika was clearly holding back aganist Kushida and was only slapping her. Kushida never showed a physical ability above an average human so she could be scaled to Average Human AP where Onodera could be scaled to Athletic Human dura as she has Athletic statements.

Cmon bruh. She didn't even fall down from an attack that is 17 times higher than her durability. Even a 2 times difference would have done that much damage. The actual AP of the attack being that much higher than Onodera's durability is just an outlier.

It clearly changes a lot of stuff. Secondly, it doesn't matter if she fell down or not. If the attack was at a very bad angle, then the graze wouldn't even deliver those times the damage. At this point, you are just assuming that the graze would always be 17 times higher than her durability. Like lol, aren't you basically just assuming? You should be giving a better reason, not assuming Onodera's tier should be the best.

Secondly, while Ichika did hold back and I believe you, there's no reason for you to ignore the fact that Kushida had her vision distorted, her senses damaged and her crying with pain when Ichika stuck her. Onodera did take a graze from Housen, and she felt immense pain as well. Does Onodera have any kind of destruction feats, does she have any statements which suggest that she cannot be even half of Ibuki. Not to mention that even girl characters like Kamuro have higher physical score than Ibuki while all they have is their island arc statements. OAAs shouldn't be used but your assumptions are too weird. First of all, this entire stuff of assuming Onodera's tier is not digestible to me. See why you are going very wrong:
1. She is supposed to have a higher and "extraordinary talent" for sports in general. It is important to note that she is also mentioned to show her "sprinter side" as well.
2. She has adaptability statements as well, in fact, of literally winning competitions, and that too, in a school where students are stupidly talented and are among the most athletic students.
3. LOL, she has statements of somehow being comparable to Suzune. This should be enough. Suzune is very well comparable to Ibuki. In fact, I believe that Suzune should have much higher endurance than Ibuki and should be able to give a good fight and it can go either way. No matter what you believe, you cannot argue that Suzune and Ibuki are comparable and are rivals.

With this, this should be over I guess. Thanks to one of my friends for finding scans, I wasn't lazy to do so, but I clearly forgot that Onodera even had such statements.

Ibuki severly damaged Ichika in that fight with one punch.

Too cool, but you missed this. Ibuki never severely damaged her. In fact, all that made her do was just some exclamations. Suzune dealt more damage. I guess both of them dealt more damage because they were able to hit her weak point, which was near her abdomen region. This is like saying you wouldn't be able to take down a lion if it was on the verge of collapse. Like lol, Suzune herself mentioned that Amasawa should be able to overpower them even on the verge of collapse.

Yes you can argue that Ichika wasn't at full power but Ibuki who specialized in kicks didn't even use her kicks to damage her this much. I wouldn't say neither Ibuki or Ichika was at full power there.

At least Ibuki and Suzune could utilize around 90% of their power. You can say Amasawa was literally doing a 5 HP clutch lol.

Ayanokouji only talks about weak points on a humans body aganist Albert. He doesn't state that vs Ibuki. Ayanokouji had to take Ibuki out fast because the things could go bad for him if he "plays around" (this statement came from Koji himself btw).

What are you trying to imply here? Probably trying to scale Ibuki higher?

Ayanokouji never gets a stat amp throughout the series as I know so If he's comparable to the characters in y1, he is comparable currently as well (although I agree that Prime Ayanokouji would solo the verse).

No way you are trying to say that. Housen was said to be able to get over both Manabu and Albert. And if you remember, Manabu has a statement of being able to knock down Ayanokouji in like a punch while Albert has statements of tanking Ayanokouji's hits.

Ryuuen's anime only LS feat doesn't really change the context of the fight where this anime only feat changes it a lot. I say we go with the better presentation of the feat to calculate.

Ryuuen's feat didn't happen in the LN, I don't think we should be unable to give this the same treatment.

 

[Zefra3011]

As I said, I can ask Zefra to re-do it. But it's impossible to do it correctly in the first place.

At this point my opinion is that it shouldn't be used at all, it's different, either you use my new calc which is a lowball and the only way to calc it or just don't use it at all, using a non canon feat just because it can be calced better than the canon version doesn't make sense imo.

 

[RoggerReggor]

At this point my opinion is that it shouldn't be used at all, it's different, either you use my new calc which is a lowball and the only way to calc it or just don't use it at all, using a non canon feat just because it can be calced better than the canon version doesn't make sense imo.

It should be better to just treat it as a scenario which happened in the anime only like we do with the Ryuuen feat. It isn't like the anime makes the characters too superficial or too weak. In fact, I believe that anime kind of corrects the statements in the novel start which contradict the volume 0 and year 2 statements. Still, it's up to you. But I don't think reaction speed is at all usable in this scenario.

Edit: I have a calc on the topic using the manga itself, should I like make a blog post of it?