Problems regarding kinetic energy for small or regular size animals

[KLOL506]

DDM makes sense.

 

[Ugarik]

I don't even understand why we need to calc it. It seem pretty easy to distinguish 10-C from 9-C animals

 

[ChemistKyle89]

Don't think that formula is valid, it uses the bite pressure like it were a destruction constant.

You are correct sir. This is a case of calc stacking, just like Jasonsith's Horizontal hammering off a tree equation. He used surface area multiplied by diameter (already taken into account with the surface area), rather than using the height of the cut. His other formulas use 0.225 cm as the height of the cut.

Using a 1" (2.54 cm) steak as the object being bit through, I recalculated the results and got 114.50 J, 121.82 J, and 129.14 J.

 

[Roachman40]

I don't even understand why we need to calc it. It seem pretty easy to distinguish 10-C from 9-C animals

Heavily agree with this...

 

[DontTalkDT]

I don't even understand why we need to calc it. It seem pretty easy to distinguish 10-C from 9-C animals

I mean, yeah, probably. With some exceptions that might be in the 10-B or 10-A area.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

A lot of large animals are '''Wall level''' even if they're still able to be killed by metallic weapons.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do here? This is a rather important topic after all.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think it's agreed to avoid giving ratings based on a running fast or body slamming calculation for various animals and instead using something like bites, punches, claws, or foot stomps depending on the animal.

 

[KLOL506]

So basically case-by-case.

In that case, there really isn't a lot of animals to fix this for.

 

[BigSmoke4269]

We should postpone this until the forum migration, shouldn't we?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It seems someone removed the 9-C rating from the Shiba Inu. It was a troll that needed to be banned that vandalized the page, but given the OP proposals, I think it might actually be reasonable.

The Forum migration is inevitable yes, so it's almost a now or never until the Forum gets moved.

 

[Antvasima]

I think it's agreed to avoid giving ratings based on a running fast or body slamming calculation for various animals and instead using something like bites, punches, claws, or foot stomps depending on the animal.

I think that this is a very good idea. Are the rest of you willing to quickly start revising The Real World profiles based on this? The staff members can continue to edit after April 14.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

It's mostly smaller animals that don't use tackles as attacks I believe?

 

[Antoniofer]

I believe are animals in general, like instead of simply getting KE, simply rate them according to their real feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that is probably a good idea.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Plenty of large animals are fine at 9-B since crushing human skulls is 9-B. But my hands are going to be full the next couple of days, I may take a look at the various animal profiles to see what I can fine however.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

This seems good

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

Thank you. As I mentioned, you can continue with this project during the time that the wiki profiles will be locked for non-staff members.

 

[BigSmoke4269]

We should postpone this until the forum migration, shouldn't we?

*cough*

 

[KLOL506]

There's also the glorious size tier chart Bambu made to rely on.

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, uhm, I think that size chart is being questioned in other thread. I would rate real animals based in KE nor size, better rate them with their real and experimented feats, se such bite fore (although there's two ways to measure, in pressure units and force unit, that one is higher doesn't mean the other value is) and lifting strength.

 

[KLOL506]

Mind linking that thread here for easier reference?

 

[Antoniofer]

This one thread.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh yeah, haven't seen that thread. But I don't use body slams and stuff like that to calculate AP, but I do use things like calculating giant characters swinging their giant swords at each other at onscreen demonstrated speeds.

 

[Antvasima]

As I mentioned, you can continue with this project during the time that the wiki profiles will be locked for non-staff members.

Would any staff members here be willing to do this with The Real World profiles?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Real_World

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Just saying I'm going to revise the real world profiles after the forum move, I believe many animals, not just small animals, are wanked to be 9-B for little to no justification.

What I have in mind atm is separating KE from their regular attacks for big animals just like how we decided to do with bite force, and just removing KE for small animals.

But yeah I'll wait for a CRT after the forum move and probably need some planning and researching to do.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Your help is very appreciated.

However, given the delays that will likely result in needing another, better, forum backup, I think that the discussion threads will likely be copied again soon, so you still have at least few days to have your posts saved.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Well I probably need to do more research anyway.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Nemo212]

Kinetic energy should be kept for some larger predatory sharks, since they also ram into prey at high speeds during feeding. Currently on the wiki, that would constitute great whites, salmon sharks, and Megalodo. To my knowledge, this would also apply to any hypothetical future profiles on mako sharks, or larger prehistoric sharks such as Cretoxyrhina.

Motta & Wilga (2001) noted that most modern species of carcharhinid and lamnid sharks rely primarily on "ram feeding" to acquire and disable prey, and may approach at high rates of speed. Observations made by Gabriotti & De Maddalena (2004) of great white sharks (Carcharodon carcharias) feeding on elephant seals in Spencer Gulf, Australia, suggested that while smaller sharks (< 4 m) approached prey cautiously, larger individuals used a more direct approach, probably related to their size and strength. In some cases, they reported that the attack is made at such a velocity that the prey is propelled out of the water by the force of the impact.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sharks I think can probably still scale from bite force since they bite differently than most animals. Their teeth isn't even that hard or strong, but rather their jaw muscles. They sink their teeth into their prey, but it doesn't break bones from there. Instead, they effortlessly rip off body parts by doing a barrel roll. Same thing could be argued for alligators and crocodiles. However, big cats, wolves, and bears should have their bites separate from their paw strikes.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Sharks can probably scale from bites since that's kinda their primary form of attack other than charging. They don't slap you with a fin or something.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is probably fine.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

So basically KE only applies to big animals.

Shouldn't be that hard to fix TBH.

No, it only aplies to animals that actually use it.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Correct. And even for said animals I'm planning on separate stats for normal physicals and KE.

 

[Antvasima]

That sounds good to me.

 

[KLOL506]

Maybe base it on their destructive feats?

 

[Antvasima]

This is just a notification about that all discussion posts made after April 14 will disappear in the new forum, so if there are any important content revisions that need to be referenced in the new forum, please back them up here:

https://archive.org/web/

The threads can be updated with later backups if more posts are made in them.