• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Problems regarding kinetic energy for small or regular size animals

Apex_Predator_GX

Apex_Predator_GX

6,904
3,703
Several small and regular size animals have exaggerated statistics due to accumulated kinetic energy while running full speed.

An example is Shiba Inu who is Street level via Kinetic Energy while running at full speed.

Small animals usually use less force to attack like with bites. Via KE even a small dog can be Tier 9-C. So we have to adjust the profiles according to their regular attack statistics instead.
 
Given that I generally make profiles for relatively small and regular sized animals, I feel the need to butt in. I'm inclined to say this isn't quite right, but you're on to something. If they can take running at full speed, then by no means should their durability be wrong. AP is a different story, though, and definitely dependent on the animal's hunting style/standard tactics.

For example, I've made a lot of fish profiles. Generally, big (again, a relative word. Big, but not enormous like a whale shark), fast fish like the Wahoo or the Yellowfin Tuna hit Wall level because of their size and mass alone, and when you factor in the fact that they're doing this through water instead of air, it's hard to see why that could be wrong. Furthermore, a lot of fish do hunt through going at maximum speed and trying to surprise their prey. I'll add that it's pretty much impossible to hit 9-A with a Real World KE calc, though, even for prehistoric creatures, but it is pretty damn easy to hit 9-C as long as you're not incredibly tiny or incredibly slow (For example, Greenland sharks were almost 10-A until I managed to find a source for a higher speed value).

I think people overestimate how many joules it takes to hit Street level; it's only 300. To get past 10-C? 40. It's a much smaller gap between Tiers 10 and 9 than it is for higher tiers.

I use KE because physics can't be wrong in real life, and that makes it pretty reliable. Maybe providing two KE calcs (one for cruising/walking speed, one for maximum speed) would be the way to go?

If anyone knows of a good way to get AP from bite force in Newtons, that would help a lot, too, and maybe even eliminate the need for KE calcs on some pages.
 
We shouldn't scale AP from smaller creatures running at full speed; otherwise every full grown human who's not physically impaired would be well into 9-C. We scale AP based on the strength of a punch for humans, and most animals should scale either from a bite or a claw attack instead of full body running.
 
We should not use KE in the first place with small animals like dogs, small animals cannot be stronger than humans because scaling through KE, should use things that they can destroy.

Like humans, we can't scale through KE.

10-B = General human

10-A = Muscle building athletes, bodybuilders, muscular soldiers and trained

9-C = Boxers, Fighters, Killer, Heavyweight boxers, Heavy bodybuilders
 
Their durability is only Below average Human I agree. And I agree that KE via running shouldn't be used at all. But bite force really shouldn't exceed 10-C.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
We shouldn't scale AP from smaller creatures running at full speed; otherwise every full grown human who's not physically impaired would be well into 9-C. We scale AP based on the strength of a punch for humans, and most animals should scale either from a bite or a claw attack instead of full body running.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.
 
Antvasima said:
Somebody should ask DontTalkDT and all of the calc group members to comment here: VS Battles Staff
Click to expand...
Anyway, has anybody done this? We need their help to develop new working standards and possibly create new calculations for our animal profiles.
 
I don't really see the need for all these KE ratings. The only animals I'm aware of that actually use charging as an attack are cats, birds of prey, ungulates (ex. bulls and deer), sharks, and cetaceans. The rest just feels unnecessary.
 
So basically KE only applies to big animals.

Shouldn't be that hard to fix TBH.
 
Antvasima said:
@BigSmoke

It is exaggerated, yes.
Click to expand...
No, I mean that he said cats generally attack by charging. Cats can output 400 joules with kinetic energy. Street level Domestic Cat confirmed
 
@everyone mentioning street level cats

See, that's the problem, I feel like there's too little of a gap. If a cat can reach Street level, then something is clearly wrong with the qualifications for the tier itself.

300 Joules is not that much. Any human can reach it with a good tackle. Sure as hell does not mean we're all Street level.

I think we ought to step back and rethink things.
 
Yes, we need somebody to ask DontTalkDT and all of the calc group members here to rething how we should handle this problem, and possibly calculate new borders for the lowest tiers.
 
Guess ordinary humans are stronger than you think. Who would've thunk?
 
Like I mentioned, we probably need to start recalculating the borders for our lower tiers, so I would appreciate if somebody asks all of the calc group and DontTalkDT to come here and help out.

We will hopefully migrate to the new external forum soon though, so we obviously won't have time for a major revision of tier 10 and 9 yet.
 
So only tiers from 10-C to 9-C will need revision, correct?
 
Why whenever humans get into tiers like 9-B and 9-C is the tier completely rewritten. But when destroying most mountains gets low 7-C results we continue to call 7-A mountain level despite only Mountain Everest barely qualifying now days.
 
@KLOL506

Yes, that is correct.

@Keeweed

As DontTalkDT has explained, the higher tiers would usually be more randomly selected numbers no matter what we do, given that there are many different sizes and methods of destruction to choose from, and it would also be a much more difficult revision, given all of the calculation blogs with the previous borders listed.
 
I mean the lower tier also seem to be pretty random considering how they've been changed to fit humans multiple times; but it just seems strange to separate the tiers by names when those names aren't even close to reality. But if revisions to those tier would be non beneficial then I guess I won't bring it up again. (Though I don't see the benefit of changing the lower tiers either)
 
We currently get a lot of more blatantly inaccurate tiers for the lower levels.
 
Antvasima said:
We currently get a lot of more blatantly inaccurate tiers for the lower levels.
Click to expand...
From what I can tell, only Wall level had a good basis here; and it was based on a gun whose shots that can break concrete walls..
 
Well, we need more calc group input in any case, or nothing will happen here.
 
A human has been able to bend steel before and I believe the reason we had 9-C were it is was because most bullets would be athletic human level if we change 9-C; so we either have human level bullets or 9-C humans and since there have been people who can bend steel I find having a 9-C human every once and a while to be more accurate. Also if we change 9-C that may even make some big cats and deer athletic human level.

Just don't use kinetic energy for people and animals charging because that's rarely an attack and most the energy wouldn't transfer anyways.
 
Well, again, somebody really needs to ask all the members I mentioned earlier to help out here. This is the calc group forum. Only calc group members and the occasional other staff members are supposed to comment here.
 
DontTalkDT and the calc group members. I keep saying that over and over.
 
Using KE even pisically unfit humans would be high into 9-C tier. It obviously can't be used
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

H3110l12345I20
Real Life Big Animals CRT 2
3 4 5
Replies
181
Views
9K
H3110l12345I20
H3110l12345I20
Second22
BIGGEST Tokyo Revengers Dowgrade Calculations Heheh
13 14 15
Replies
586
Views
19K
Vapourrrrr
ThePrimalHunter
What Is Your Real Life Tier? FC/OC Edition
5 6 7
Replies
260
Views
5K
GarrixianXD
GarrixianXD
Kyleb79
Powerpuff Girl Mid Revision
Replies
21
Views
743
Kyleb79
Kyleb79
DontTalkDT
Regarding the 2ms perception thing
2
Replies
77
Views
6K
Arnoldstone18
Arnoldstone18
Back
Top