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Probably the worst
- Thread starter Yobo_Blue
- Start date
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Just to quote on how Magecraft works anyway.
"Magecraft [Others] A general term representing activities that artificially re-enact Mysteries/Miracles. Although there were some differences depending on traditions and schools, the basic principle was still "the transformation of the magical energy that exists within the practitioner or the environment". The practitioner would issue Commands according to the Foundation (System) of his school, and this would cause the execution of a predetermined Program. Magical energy was the electrical current required to deliver the command. Although magecraft gave the impression of omnipotence, it fundamentally produced Mystery through the principle of equivalent exchange. It was possible to transform one thing into another, but it was impossible to produce something from nothing. However, the essence of magecraft as a discipline was to challenge that "Nothingness", and endeavor towards the impossible. Large-scale spells such as the so-called Grand Sorceries, Grand Rituals were really purposeless if not for attempting to reach " " (Kara) or True Magic. Kara no Kyoukai was a story of one magus' attempt at challenging "Nothingness"."
"Magecraft [Others] A general term representing activities that artificially re-enact Mysteries/Miracles. Although there were some differences depending on traditions and schools, the basic principle was still "the transformation of the magical energy that exists within the practitioner or the environment". The practitioner would issue Commands according to the Foundation (System) of his school, and this would cause the execution of a predetermined Program. Magical energy was the electrical current required to deliver the command. Although magecraft gave the impression of omnipotence, it fundamentally produced Mystery through the principle of equivalent exchange. It was possible to transform one thing into another, but it was impossible to produce something from nothing. However, the essence of magecraft as a discipline was to challenge that "Nothingness", and endeavor towards the impossible. Large-scale spells such as the so-called Grand Sorceries, Grand Rituals were really purposeless if not for attempting to reach " " (Kara) or True Magic. Kara no Kyoukai was a story of one magus' attempt at challenging "Nothingness"."
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Trivial matter, but at the same time isn't burden of proof is on you to provide evidence he has dwell into the supernatural a lot? It is not like he has the time to do that a lot given how a positive could turn against you anyway. Although in one of those scans, Zatanna was mentioned to been to been helping Batman out when it comes to magic anyway.Yobo Blue said:
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Some of the proof doesn't necessarily mean it involved the supernatural world though. What you have shown is mostly relating to cosmic stuff for the most part.Yobo Blue said:
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https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Magecraft
'"Magecraft' (Ú¡öÞíô, Majutsu?), or Thaumaturgy, is the artificial reenactment of Mystery, which is ordinarily possible only by inhuman beings."
Batman knows magic.
Magic is Mystery.
Batman has Mystery.
'"Magecraft' (Ú¡öÞíô, Majutsu?), or Thaumaturgy, is the artificial reenactment of Mystery, which is ordinarily possible only by inhuman beings."
Batman knows magic.
Magic is Mystery.
Batman has Mystery.
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Knowing magecraft gives you mystery with your magecraft not every action
That aside batman should just have mystery in general and affect servants with any action
That aside batman should just have mystery in general and affect servants with any action
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The only problem though is affecting servants doesn't translating into killing servants though.
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@Yobo
His regen though seems to High-Low and he is ranked as 9B anyway.
Edit: Never mind as that is in a different key it seems.
His regen though seems to High-Low and he is ranked as 9B anyway.
Edit: Never mind as that is in a different key it seems.
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According to Avenger's first key, he is apparently ranked as Unknown against humans for some reason. These scans being shown here in his attack potency: https://i.gyazo.com/7617d1d1ebfbc9a0da14edfc8835e4fb.png
http://i.imgur.com/eZqHX4v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1nVWeUp.jpg
I suppose it has to do with Avenger's nature and other things for that matter.
And Batman is human nonetheless.
http://i.imgur.com/eZqHX4v.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1nVWeUp.jpg
I suppose it has to do with Avenger's nature and other things for that matter.
And Batman is human nonetheless.
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Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Dream Manipulation (Recreated Fuyuki in a world of dreams for Bazett), Time Manipulation (Can create a four-day time loop), Pain Manipulation (Can reflect the pain of his own injuries onto others, inscribing it onto their very soul), Statistics Amplification (Can vastly increase his own abilities so he can fight on par with other Servants, but dies in the process), Soul Manipulation(All Servants can consume souls to replenish their magical energy), Possession, can utilize Shirou's abilities when possessing his body, Intangibility and Invisibility in spirit form (In his true spiritual form, Avenger exists as nothingness), Immunity to Modern Weapons (Servants are Divine Mysteries that cannot be harmed by modern weapons such as guns, knives, or bombs unless they are infused with a supernatural aspect such as magical energy or possess a certain amount of age or mystery behind their creation)
Not sure, but has Batman ever dealt with Time Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, and apparently Possession before? His first key has those abilities and I am uncertain if Batman has ever dealt with something like that in the long run anyway.
Not sure, but has Batman ever dealt with Time Manipulation, Dream Manipulation, and apparently Possession before? His first key has those abilities and I am uncertain if Batman has ever dealt with something like that in the long run anyway.
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It does depend the potency of the hax for Avenger and what the level of resistance is from Batman . The only things Batman doesn't resist would seems to be dream and time manipulation though.
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Alright, let's get this done. Batman has his ability to seal AM in a crystal, so he has that. This is borderline a stomp but Bats has that so its not. Avenger is stupidly good at killing humans, and apparently would be able to take out humans who are stronger than servants if they existed (i.e. some of the prime heroes before they became servants). Beyond that massive advantage, he has his twin blades so he can take batman out with a single solid swipe, which he undoubtably will unless batman dodges all his attacks, but he won't know that he has to resort to the crystal unless he actually manages to get successve failing hits or getting hit himself. Avenger is usually someone who is fighting with an extreme stat disadvatage even greater than the one Batman has over him, so he should be able to walk through this with relative ease. Basically, he gets one swipe and wins.
For these reasons, I vote avenger.
For these reasons, I vote avenger.
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Ah, so he has prior knowledge? I slightly ammend my vote but it turns out much the same. Avenger is again rediculesly good at killing humans including mages, and sealing isn't that incredibly special. If sealing was all it took to take down AM then he wouldn't be considered a threat to humans on par with the primape murderer, and although Batman's sealing worked on what looks like a red lantern, Avenger should still be more than capabe of taking him out before he uses it
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I remember a disscusion about Servant Immunity to modern weaponry, and I think it was agreed that Mystery is not just about age, is about... That, mystery.
The less someone or something is known (From where is, how old is, how it works, etc etc), the more mystery has.
I believe that is the reason for why most mages don't share their spells a lot, because their magic would weaken if they are too known.
The less someone or something is known (From where is, how old is, how it works, etc etc), the more mystery has.
I believe that is the reason for why most mages don't share their spells a lot, because their magic would weaken if they are too known.
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Yeah, there is a lot more to mystery than just age. The reason why Edison caused one of the greatest declines of mystery is because he allowed so much info to be shared perminently
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His ring should at least have enough mystery to let him deck Avenger, so that's a thing
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Wait you do realize that Batman doesn't often have the rings for a long period of time for them to be considered standard right? Especially if you talking about the some of the Lantern corps anyway something he never considered using them often though.
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I guess that drives it even further in the Favor of Avenger, so my original comments holdHammerStrikes219 said:
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I do indeed think he shouldn't hold mystery, but perhaps I am just not sold on the whole cosmic lynchpin idea. Mystery carries some sort of effect no matter what, so the fact that Batman is really not human at all in capabilities and some of the stuff he pulls off could do it but eh, I'll let you all decide that.
As for the match, Batman is ridiculously skilled but... Well, Avenger shows that no matter the opponent, he can keep off a defensive battle with barely any issue and it's even his speciality so he has all the time in the world to use his options and manage to kill Batman. Not to mention his statistics amplification, that should surely give him the win when he reaches a level where just grazing Batman takes a chunk off. That plus all Iap said.
As for the match, Batman is ridiculously skilled but... Well, Avenger shows that no matter the opponent, he can keep off a defensive battle with barely any issue and it's even his speciality so he has all the time in the world to use his options and manage to kill Batman. Not to mention his statistics amplification, that should surely give him the win when he reaches a level where just grazing Batman takes a chunk off. That plus all Iap said.
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I believe that is 2 for Avenger
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I agree that Avenger sould also win FRA. Also, Batman has never dealth with Invisibily that give Nonexistent Physiology.
- Invisibility in spirit form (In his true spiritual form, Avenger exists as nothingness)
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Damn I didn't even know about that part lol
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Just to clarify a point, there was already a thread discussing the nature and requirements for mystery. The general consensus was simply that "if the modern majority of humans would consider it abnormal, it has mystery" and "the more abnormal it is, the more mystery it has".
To quote directly my summarized explanation:
Say, a punch is a punch. People know how punches work, and they know how much damage they tend to deal. They can be this strong or this weak, and even if most people don't know the exact numbers, they can easily believe it when they see it. But if a punch suddenly causes explosions on impact, sets things on fire, affects a higher or lower spatial dimension, or if the damage dealt by the punch far surpasses what's considered "normal" by the modern era, then it has mystery because it is a mystery, of a sort. Older things have more mystery because the farther back in history we go, the less we actually know for sure. That even knowing what happened in myths and legends actually happened, it's unbelievable that they did because by modern points of view, the feats don't make sense and thus, are mysterious.
So Batman, by virtue of all his feats and being 8-C, is easily mysterious enough to affect Servants regardless of what he uses, as long as it's directly done. Anything short of ordering someone else to attack for him would be considered a part of his inherent mystery.
To quote directly my summarized explanation:
Say, a punch is a punch. People know how punches work, and they know how much damage they tend to deal. They can be this strong or this weak, and even if most people don't know the exact numbers, they can easily believe it when they see it. But if a punch suddenly causes explosions on impact, sets things on fire, affects a higher or lower spatial dimension, or if the damage dealt by the punch far surpasses what's considered "normal" by the modern era, then it has mystery because it is a mystery, of a sort. Older things have more mystery because the farther back in history we go, the less we actually know for sure. That even knowing what happened in myths and legends actually happened, it's unbelievable that they did because by modern points of view, the feats don't make sense and thus, are mysterious.
So Batman, by virtue of all his feats and being 8-C, is easily mysterious enough to affect Servants regardless of what he uses, as long as it's directly done. Anything short of ordering someone else to attack for him would be considered a part of his inherent mystery.
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@Solcais
The only issue is how exactly will Batman be able to kill or incap him will be the question here.
The only issue is how exactly will Batman be able to kill or incap him will be the question here.
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Oh wait I forget that Batman considered killing his opponents to be not allowed. He usually let the villains he defeated to be in Arkham Asylum or rarely in other prison and we all know how that turn out (I can name quite the instances of him not killing his opponents, but it is obviously this may become a mismatch leaning to Avenger's favor).
In-character, Batman will most likely attempt to incap Avenger at least anyway.
In-character, Batman will most likely attempt to incap Avenger at least anyway.
