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Precognition and Fate manipulation

"All possible futures" =/= permanently deleting others from forming, again this is not how Fate or the Future work. The future is something that's ever changing in nature. The future is literally a byproduct of the present.
you realize saying "All possible futures" means it's literally any future that can happen, right? Which means you can't change it to a different one or have another one form, because that would count toward one of the possible futures
 
The present and past are still a thing that exist, within that moment you can still form another outcome. Character B doesn't the branching of the future permanently, news ones can and will form.



Hm I'm fully aware who your referring to. Said character doesn't stop the flow of fate permanently, new ones still form regardless.

"All possible futures" =/= permanently deleting others from forming, again this is not how Fate or the Future work. The future is something that's ever changing in nature.
You can't as it take account all infinite outcome, She doesn't account just hundred to thousand, she account
All the infinite one that could be possible to exist for this a action.

And guy A see the futur not the past nor can change the past.

New one can't form for this account as the INFINITY possibility for this action are erased except one.
 
"All possible futures" =/= permanently deleting others from forming, again this is not how Fate or the Future work. The future is something that's ever changing in nature.
How do you know this? The future could very well be deterministic in our world and we wouldn't know the difference. How the future works changes from series to series, but in any case it wouldn't change anything.

Power of Fate, over making certain possibilities true is, by definition, deterministic. Seeing a future that's been magic'ed into happening doesn't matter, because it's destined to happen. It's the only future.
 
Gin, what do you think all possible futures means, the other futures are still possible futures even if they haven't formed, because as I said they are still possible futures and as such cease to be, there is no way to make new futures because they already have ceased to be
 
One at a time please. Let's avoid blatant dog pilling especially whenever it's wrong.

Literally how the **** do you expect me to reply whenever there's 5 users all replying to my shit?
 
You are understanding that the ability is "all possible futures", correct? Because if all POSSIBLE futures, aka any future that could happen via any sequence of events are erased and only 1 remains, then no other outcome can happen. Nothing can be changed because there is nothing to change. If it's not all POSSIBLE futures then this isn't the case, but if it's all POSSIBLE FUTURES then no changes can happen. The person with precog can only see the future coming up and anything they choose is what's already decided in this 1 last possible outcome. Because there are no other possible outcomes.
 
How do you know this? The future could very well be deterministic in our world and we wouldn't know the difference. How the future works changes from series to series, but in any case it wouldn't change anything.

Power of Fate, over making certain possibilities true is, by definition, deterministic. Seeing a future that's been magic'ed into happening doesn't matter, because it's destined to happen. It's the only future.
technically if fate was real in real life, then it would be completely fixed since
true randomness doesn't actually exist in any form
 
One at a time please. Let's avoid blatant dog pilling especially whenever it's wrong.
You're ignoring "all possible futures". If only 1 possible future remains because they erased all others, then only that one can happen. You can't change something if it literally has to be that way via someone's ability unless you yourself have fate hax or causality hax or whatever to counter it.
 
Like I said, wait for my counter instead of attacking the previous one all at once. Quite frankly it's irritating as **** to deal with, and promotes Argumentum ad populum. I also am more than aware of this exact debating tactic, it's uses to discourage users via sheer numbers, a pretty dirty tactic if you ask me.
 
I love how LordGinSama is the only one speaking with complete common sense. People are legit more interested on attacking his person than actually counter his very solid arguments here.
Except, ya know, they're kinda doing both. Not that I support attacking him, I seriously don't, but they are countering his arguments, it's just happening about 5 more times then it should for each point. That's annoying.
 
I love how LordGinSama is the only one speaking with complete common sense. People are legit more interested on attacking his person than actually counter his very solid arguments here.
???

While it's true that people aren't letting him counter. Gin isn't the only one speaking with "complete common sense". Both sides make sense. The problem is it's just a 5v1.
 
I understand why he's (gin) claiming this, but I just completely disagree
I didn't expect 5 people to join in on it with me at once though, so idk how to feel
 
Yeah.

People, let one or two counter Gin's points, you don't have to dog pile with the same point iterated 5 different ways.
 
Addressing the Argumentum ad populum


Okay so let me start off by addressing the main issues here, since people seem to have not much of a clue on how the future flows. Let's start off by taking a look at the definition of the future and Fate.

the will or principle or determining cause by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do
Fate isn't something linear in nature, the concept of the future is that it's always changing, always forming new outcomes and so on and so forth. The Future isn't something that can exist without the past or present, both of which are what determine the outcomes of the future. The Future in always directly influenced by the changes and actions made in the present, the arguments above assume that the future is something that just exists by itself without any relationship to the present, like it's something entirely independent.


The future is a direct result of the actions and decisions people make within the present, the future cannot and will not change if the present is never affected, it only gets affected and changes due to the consequences of the present. The Present is what determines the flow of Future, creating a future isn't possible without a past or present.


Creating and Influencing a new future doesn't require the manipulation of Fate, this is a blatant non sequitur that I'm pretty sure users here only got from their manga or whatever, Fate Manipulation is a hax that allows you to directly change Fate to your own accord and leisure to whatever you want, going against the normal flow of Fate. And I don't wanna see people throwing around inherent Strawman Fallacies either such as "Well now I guess Deku has Fate hax." he doesn't, and that's actually helps my argument if anything. New future's form due to the actions and choices we make in the present. You can always forge a new future by making certain choices and actions. Deku changed his own fate by acting in the present, because again the future is a direct result of what's happening now.


This is different than let's say Yhwach changing the future by Manipulation of Fate to his own accord, those are two different cases so they aren't applicable to one another, at best an argument like this is used to try to discredit my arguments while not addressing the arguments themselves.



Addressing the Counter arguments



Okay so now let's address the aforementioned arguments from above, because to be honest this is just another example of users piggy back riding off of the arguments of other users with little to no difference between them and using them to flood and overwhelm other users.

being able to create a new future is something only characters with some level of fate manipulation can do
precognition does nothing except for seeing what is going to happen, and if what's going to happen changes then they can't change it back unless they have fate manipulation
if fate says that they will not be able to perform any other action, then they won't unless they fate manipulate
First of all I dont even know where to start start this argument in particular since it's all objectively false and evidently so. Changing the future is something that literally anyone can do, Fate hax is the application of the manipulation of Fate to get a particular desired result, nothing more and nothing less. The future is something that's conventionally a result of the present and the actions made in said present time.

The future doesn't change by itself, the future changes based upon actions, choices and so on and so forth. Without a past or present there would be no such thing as a future because the future is something determined by the present and past. Changing your future doesn't require the application of Fate Manipulation unless you wish for a very particular type of result, changing the future is something we do everyday. This is literally why Deku had Fate Manipulation rejected because changing the future based upon your actions is something we ALREADY do. So again this is a massive non sequitur to be riding on.


you realize saying "All possible futures" means it's literally any future that can happen, right? Which means you can't change it to a different one or have another one form, because that would count toward one of the possible futures

The Future is a concept that one can always change via their actions in the present, the present is what generates the future to begin with, even if all "possible outcomes." are deleted, new ones can still be made by the actions made now, in the present. The Future doesn't just work independently, the future is a direct result of what happens in the present. For what your talking about to happen you'd also need to nuke the present, due to it being the source of the future.

For the future to be completely axed completely that would also require the destruction of the present (the source of the future.) As long as the past remains then a new future can always be forged by the action of others.


How do you know this? The future could very well be deterministic in our world and we wouldn't know the difference. How the future works changes from series to series, but in any case it wouldn't change anything.
Because that's how it works? There's a reason why we have theories of time paradoxes, if there isn't no past then a future nor present can be created due to how time branches off. This isn't a difficult concept to comprehend. Temporal measurements like the Past, Present and the Future are all dependent on one another, without a past then a future cannot logically exist. The past is what determines the present, the present is what determines the future. I've never seen a work of fiction that deviates from this, and if there is feel free to actually post the example, because as far as I'm aware there aren't any that allow for the future to remain while the present are gone.



You are understanding that the ability is "all possible futures", correct? Because if all POSSIBLE futures, aka any future that could happen via any sequence of events are erased and only 1 remains, then no other outcome can happen. Nothing can be changed because there is nothing to change. If it's not all POSSIBLE futures then this isn't the case, but if it's all POSSIBLE FUTURES then no changes can happen. The person with precog can only see the future coming up and anything they choose is what's already decided in this 1 last possible outcome. Because there are no other possible outcomes.
The present still remains which is what determines the sequence of events of the future, as long as the present remains new future's will be created based upon one's actions and such in the present, the future only changes and gets created due to the actions and choices that take place in the present. "All possible futures." is irrelevant whenever new one's spawn from simple actions and choices.


I'm not even talking about precognition anymore I'm talking about the mechanics of how the past, present and future works. You said that if all possible futures are nuked then new ones can't be formed, which is inherently incorrect since the future spawns from the present to begin with, the present is the source of the future and what determines what happens in the future.




Gin, what do you think all possible futures means, the other futures are still possible futures even if they haven't formed, because as I said they are still possible futures and as such cease to be, there is no way to make new futures because they already have ceased to be
And I've already explained this several times above, the future doesn't determine itself what determines and forges the future is the present, there's no no thing as a future without a past or present. As long as there's a present then a new future can be forged by the slightest of actions.



You're ignoring "all possible futures". If only 1 possible future remains because they erased all others, then only that one can happen. You can't change something if it literally has to be that way via someone's ability unless you yourself have fate hax or causality hax or whatever to counter it.
I'm not ignoring anything, I'm taking that into consideration. Also seems pretty condescending of you to say that I'm ignoring it when I've addressed it several times. The future is something that's ever changing and ever generating from the actions made in the past and present, the confusion comes from you guy's not understanding that and instead replying with "needs fate hax." whenever the future is literally something we change every day BECAUSE of the present.
 
Also from this point forward, I hope you all bash a ******* pinky toe into a hard corner from the amount you guys made me write.
 
Addressing the Argumentum ad populum


Okay so let me start off by addressing the main issues here, since people seem to have not much of a clue on how the future flows. Let's start off by taking a look at the definition of the future and Fate.


Fate isn't something linear in nature, the concept of the future is that it's always changing, always forming new outcomes and so on and so forth. The Future isn't something that can exist without the past or present, both of which are what determine the outcomes of the future. The Future in always directly influenced by the changes and actions made in the present, the arguments above assume that the future is something that just exists by itself without any relationship to the present, like it's something entirely independent.


The future is a direct result of the actions and decisions people make within the present, the future cannot and will not change if the present is never affected, it only gets affected and changes due to the consequences of the present. The Present is what determines the flow of Future, creating a future isn't possible without a past or present.


Creating and Influencing a new future doesn't require the manipulation of Fate, this is a blatant non sequitur that I'm pretty sure users here only got from their manga or whatever, Fate Manipulation is a hax that allows you to directly change Fate to your own accord and leisure to whatever you want, going against the normal flow of Fate. And I don't wanna see people throwing around inherent Strawman Fallacies either such as "Well now I guess Deku has Fate hax." he doesn't, and that's actually helps my argument if anything. New future's form due to the actions and choices we make in the present. You can always forge a new future by making certain choices and actions. Deku changed his own fate by acting in the present, because again the future is a direct result of what's happening now.


This is different than let's say Yhwach changing the future by Manipulation of Fate to his own accord, those are two different cases so they aren't applicable to one another, at best an argument like this is used to try to discredit my arguments while not addressing the arguments themselves.



Addressing the Counter arguments



Okay so now let's address the aforementioned arguments from above, because to be honest this is just another example of users piggy back riding off of the arguments of other users with little to no difference between them and using them to flood and overwhelm other users.


First of all I dont even know where to start start this argument in particular since it's all objectively false and evidently so. Changing the future is something that literally anyone can do, Fate hax is the application of the manipulation of Fate to get a particular desired result, nothing more and nothing less. The future is something that's conventionally a result of the present and the actions made in said present time.

The future doesn't change by itself, the future changes based upon actions, choices and so on and so forth. Without a past or present there would be no such thing as a future because the future is something determined by the present and past. Changing your future doesn't require the application of Fate Manipulation unless you wish for a very particular type of result, changing the future is something we do everyday. This is literally why Deku had Fate Manipulation rejected because changing the future based upon your actions is something we ALREADY do. So again this is a massive non sequitur to be riding on.




The Future is a concept that one can always change via their actions in the present, the present is what generates the future to begin with, even if all "possible outcomes." are deleted, new ones can still be made by the actions made now, in the present. The Future doesn't just work independently, the future is a direct result of what happens in the present. For what your talking about to happen you'd also need to nuke the present, due to it being the source of the future.

For the future to be completely axed completely that would also require the destruction of the present (the source of the future.) As long as the past remains then a new future can always be forged by the action of others.



Because that's how it works? There's a reason why we have theories of time paradoxes, if there isn't no past then a future nor present can be created due to how time branches off. This isn't a difficult concept to comprehend. Temporal measurements like the Past, Present and the Future are all dependent on one another, without a past then a future cannot logically exist. The past is what determines the present, the present is what determines the future. I've never seen a work of fiction that deviates from this, and if there is feel free to actually post the example, because as far as I'm aware there aren't any that allow for the future to remain while the present are gone.




The present still remains which is what determines the sequence of events of the future, as long as the present remains new future's will be created based upon one's actions and such in the present, the future only changes and gets created due to the actions and choices that take place in the present. "All possible futures." is irrelevant whenever new one's spawn from simple actions and choices.


I'm not even talking about precognition anymore I'm talking about the mechanics of how the past, present and future works. You said that if all possible futures are nuked then new ones can't be formed, which is inherently incorrect since the future spawns from the present to begin with, the present is the source of the future and what determines what happens in the future.





And I've already explained this several times above, the future doesn't determine itself what determines and forges the future is the present, there's no no thing as a future without a past or present. As long as there's a present then a new future can be forged by the slightest of actions.




I'm not ignoring anything, I'm taking that into consideration. Also seems pretty condescending of you to say that I'm ignoring it when I've addressed it several times. The future is something that's ever changing and ever generating from the actions made in the past and present, the confusion comes from you guy's not understanding that and instead replying with "needs fate hax." whenever the future is literally something we change every day BECAUSE of the present.
this could get a bit philosophical, and I still completely
but I feel like I'll let everybody else handle this instead, since I assume they have something to say about this too
 
Addressing the Argumentum ad populum


Okay so let me start off by addressing the main issues here, since people seem to have not much of a clue on how the future flows. Let's start off by taking a look at the definition of the future and Fate.


Fate isn't something linear in nature, the concept of the future is that it's always changing, always forming new outcomes and so on and so forth. The Future isn't something that can exist without the past or present, both of which are what determine the outcomes of the future. The Future in always directly influenced by the changes and actions made in the present, the arguments above assume that the future is something that just exists by itself without any relationship to the present, like it's something entirely independent.


The future is a direct result of the actions and decisions people make within the present, the future cannot and will not change if the present is never affected, it only gets affected and changes due to the consequences of the present. The Present is what determines the flow of Future, creating a future isn't possible without a past or present.


Creating and Influencing a new future doesn't require the manipulation of Fate, this is a blatant non sequitur that I'm pretty sure users here only got from their manga or whatever, Fate Manipulation is a hax that allows you to directly change Fate to your own accord and leisure to whatever you want, going against the normal flow of Fate. And I don't wanna see people throwing around inherent Strawman Fallacies either such as "Well now I guess Deku has Fate hax." he doesn't, and that's actually helps my argument if anything. New future's form due to the actions and choices we make in the present. You can always forge a new future by making certain choices and actions. Deku changed his own fate by acting in the present, because again the future is a direct result of what's happening now.


This is different than let's say Yhwach changing the future by Manipulation of Fate to his own accord, those are two different cases so they aren't applicable to one another, at best an argument like this is used to try to discredit my arguments while not addressing the arguments themselves.



Addressing the Counter arguments



Okay so now let's address the aforementioned arguments from above, because to be honest this is just another example of users piggy back riding off of the arguments of other users with little to no difference between them and using them to flood and overwhelm other users.


First of all I dont even know where to start start this argument in particular since it's all objectively false and evidently so. Changing the future is something that literally anyone can do, Fate hax is the application of the manipulation of Fate to get a particular desired result, nothing more and nothing less. The future is something that's conventionally a result of the present and the actions made in said present time.

The future doesn't change by itself, the future changes based upon actions, choices and so on and so forth. Without a past or present there would be no such thing as a future because the future is something determined by the present and past. Changing your future doesn't require the application of Fate Manipulation unless you wish for a very particular type of result, changing the future is something we do everyday. This is literally why Deku had Fate Manipulation rejected because changing the future based upon your actions is something we ALREADY do. So again this is a massive non sequitur to be riding on.




The Future is a concept that one can always change via their actions in the present, the present is what generates the future to begin with, even if all "possible outcomes." are deleted, new ones can still be made by the actions made now, in the present. The Future doesn't just work independently, the future is a direct result of what happens in the present. For what your talking about to happen you'd also need to nuke the present, due to it being the source of the future.

For the future to be completely axed completely that would also require the destruction of the present (the source of the future.) As long as the past remains then a new future can always be forged by the action of others.



Because that's how it works? There's a reason why we have theories of time paradoxes, if there isn't no past then a future nor present can be created due to how time branches off. This isn't a difficult concept to comprehend. Temporal measurements like the Past, Present and the Future are all dependent on one another, without a past then a future cannot logically exist. The past is what determines the present, the present is what determines the future. I've never seen a work of fiction that deviates from this, and if there is feel free to actually post the example, because as far as I'm aware there aren't any that allow for the future to remain while the present are gone.




The present still remains which is what determines the sequence of events of the future, as long as the present remains new future's will be created based upon one's actions and such in the present, the future only changes and gets created due to the actions and choices that take place in the present. "All possible futures." is irrelevant whenever new one's spawn from simple actions and choices.


I'm not even talking about precognition anymore I'm talking about the mechanics of how the past, present and future works. You said that if all possible futures are nuked then new ones can't be formed, which is inherently incorrect since the future spawns from the present to begin with, the present is the source of the future and what determines what happens in the future.





And I've already explained this several times above, the future doesn't determine itself what determines and forges the future is the present, there's no no thing as a future without a past or present. As long as there's a present then a new future can be forged by the slightest of actions.




I'm not ignoring anything, I'm taking that into consideration. Also seems pretty condescending of you to say that I'm ignoring it when I've addressed it several times. The future is something that's ever changing and ever generating from the actions made in the past and present, the confusion comes from you guy's not understanding that and instead replying with "needs fate hax." whenever the future is literally something we change every day BECAUSE of the present.
Not being mean but what you want to tell is not how the thing work for this person verse, she would never had a problem with Yagyuu if that was the case, and the numerous people in the verse that can see directly the futur would counter which is not the case. + In her verse litteraly what you described is counted as fate manipulation when she create a entirely new fate existed outside the scope of the infinite one existing for this action. The infinite one account the present one as like you tell present action can change the outcome (and i like showed a scan when she do a thing you tell, where she was able to counter raikou before raikou even think of doing her action)


+ Infinite possible futur would still account the "'new futur" you talk about it except if now you tell that it exist more than infinite futur for the action she want??


Her base power is to make that an action she decide yo perfom(like cutting right arm of her ennemy) will only ever had one outcome because all the infinite other possible futur are deleted not existing.


I mean your whole point is like countered with the mechanism of her verse (like quantum time lock that show that what you doesn't work).

And your thing is way philosophical, in many anime futur are pre determined whitou being able to be changed even when knowing and futur exist even when the present still not have hapening. Your try to take one of the philosophy of futur into the fictional verse when many verse doesn't work like this.
 
It has nothing to do with philosophy, I'm talking about how the past and present influence the future, this is a discussion of physics not philosophy. I speak of that, not Fate.
Not being mean but what you want to tell is not how the thing work for this person verse, she would never had a problem with Yagyuu if that was the case, and the numerous people in the verse that can see directly the futur would counter which is not the case. + In her verse litteraly what you described is counted as fate manipulation when she create a entirely new fate existed outside the scope of the infinite one existing for this action.
I'm not talking about any particular verse at this point, I'm talking about general mechanics. And that's how it works in Nasu is irrelevant as that isn't applicable to other verses otherwise robots and chairs have souls in every Bleach match because that's how it works in verse.
Her base power is to make that an action she decide yo perfom(like cutting right arm of her ennemy) will only ever had one outcome because all the infinite other possible futur are deleted not existing.


I mean your whole point is like countered with the mechanism of her verse (like quantum time lock that show that what you doesn't work).
Read above. I'm also not even talking about future sight countering fate hax, I'm solely talking about the future being something that changes and spawns from the actions set in the present.
 
By the by, I'm not that interested in this discussion, so I won't really be arguing. I know why this was made now and I really don't care now lol.

But, I will be monitoring this. So, behave, children.
 
It has nothing to do with philosophy, I'm talking about how the past and present influence the future, this is a discussion of physics not philosophy. I speak of that, not Fate.

I'm not talking about any particular verse at this point, I'm talking about general mechanics. And that's how it works in Nasu is irrelevant as that isn't applicable to other verses otherwise robots and chairs have souls in every Bleach match because that's how it works in verse.

Read above. I'm also not even talking about future sight countering fate hax, I'm solely talking about the future being something that changes and spawns from the actions set in the present.
It has do with philosophy we don't know how work futur and fate, Fate is destinity, destinity is having a predetermined futur. Meaning futur you can't change in first.

It work like that in pretty much in every verse, you basically trying to tell that her ability outsider her verse can be countered by anyone because her erasing the infinite possible futur of one action doesn't account action that are possible to happen based on the present when it's the litteral principe of her ability.

Except for the futur to be able to be changing it need to exist, simple as that. Guy B litteraly make futur except one not existing.

Guy B litteraly make that the futur of an action is limited to one, every infinite possible change that could make this one futur not happening are erased.

Him stopping the atk, him changing the trajectory, someone passing by here, stopping by here and stopping the atk are all possibilities futur that can happen and all of them are erased to have only one existing. It's the principe to erase all possibilities futur ...
 
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By your logic fate manipulation doesn't exist as anyone could change the fate people force to them.
 
It has do with philosophy we don't know how work futur and fate, Fate is destinity, destinity is having a predetermined futur. Meaning futur you can't change in first.
It absolutely isn't philosophy, we have multiple theories and a rough understanding of how the past, present and future work. This is something you made up to try to discredit what I said previously, Fate is another subject entirely.
It work like that in pretty much in every verse
No, it doesn't.
you basically trying to tell that her ability outsider her verse can be countered by anyone because her erasing the infinite possible futur of one action doesn't account action that are possible to happen now when it's the litteral principe of her ability.
I'm not saying that or even loosely insinuating that, as she can kill her opponent's before they even get the chance to change anything. So yeah this is a blatant example of what we call Strawmanning.
Except for the futur to be able to be changing it need to exist, simple as that.
The future is derivative of the present, that's irrelevant as I explained above.
She litteraly making that the futur of an action is limited to one, every infinite possible change that could make this one futur not happening are erased.
Which doesn't counter what I said above.
Him stopping is atk, him, changing the trajectory, someone passing by here and stopping by here and stopping the atk are all possibilities futur that can happen and all of them are erased to have only one existing
Who are you referring to here? I'm not even talking about two particular characters, you're the only one who's still hung up on that Zoro vs Musashi thread, everyone has long since moved on. I'm talking about physics and that alone.
By your logic fate manipulation doesn't exist as anyone could change the fate people force to them.
Yet again with the strawmanning huh? With my logic Fate manipulation would still indeed exist, Fate Manipulation is for the direct manipulation and alteration of Fate. You have control over your future based upon the actions you make, as I said this isn't remotely comparable to the outright manipulation of Fate itself so get that out your head.
 
So would you say that abilities like precog allow you to potentially avoid whatever fate has in store for you, assuming that you choose to act in a way that changes said fate? Or am I not getting what you're saying
 
Depends on the mechanism and precedence, as fate is in no way one regulated thing in fiction. So case by case.
OW16jiG.png
 
So would you say that abilities like precog allow you to potentially avoid whatever fate has in store for you,
Depends entirely on the Precognition, not all forms of Precognition are born the same. But for the sake of the argument, let's say Kenbunshoku Haki users wouldn't be able to avoid having their Fate's messed with unless it's minor Fate Manipulation that only works for 5 seconds into the future then yes they could.

Context is what matters, there are definitely characters with precognition that can counter Fate manipulation but that's obviously not applicable to everyone with Precognition.
assuming that you choose to act in a way that changes said fate? Or am I not getting what you're saying
Read above.



not even sure why this thread was made since Zoro doesn't even have future sight so the OP is definitely confused as **** in that regard.
 
It absolutely isn't philosophy, we have multiple theories and a rough understanding of how the past, present and future work. This is something you made up to try to discredit what I said previously, Fate is another subject entirely.

No, it doesn't.

I'm not saying that or even loosely insinuating that, as she can kill her opponent's before they even get the chance to change anything. So yeah this is a blatant example of what we call Strawmanning.

The future is derivative of the present, that's irrelevant as I explained above.

Which doesn't counter what I said above.

Who are you referring to here? I'm not even talking about two particular characters, you're the only one who's still hung up on that Zoro vs Musashi thread, everyone has long since moved on. I'm talking about physics and that alone.

Yet again with the strawmanning huh? With my logic Fate manipulation would still indeed exist, Fate Manipulation is for the direct manipulation and alteration of Fate. You have control over your future based upon the actions you make, as I said this isn't remotely comparable to the outright manipulation of Fate itself so get that out your head.
It's not something i "made up" we like too have theories that present/past/future doesn't exist and even less that their revelant in fiction.

It does even in OP, if what you said was applicable in OP, time travel in the future would not be possible you know that?

Except she have fight people that can change futur, see the futur etc, you keep talking about changing futur when her ability is to make that it exist only one that can't be changed because the Infinity possible futur you know as infinity are erased.

Except her action count the present it would not be called possible future otherwise, simple as that. She litteraly lock an event to be obligatory to change, you can't change it from present because it's the only one that can happen.

Do you understand the difference between chosing a futur, and be obligated to have only one because it's the only existing for this action, she litteraly possibilities that could change it. It's stupid to think it. Doesn't account think like him changing now a movement when she already proved to be able to do it with Raikou.

If you want to talk about physic it's quite simple, You have two route in front of you, one in right, one in left. You have infinity possible futur with this. You can go right/left, just not moving, move your eyes, just not going in the route, going backwards etc.

The whole Principe of shaving all infinite futur possible and only letting one, is to obligated you to do to left, you can't go to right anymore because the possibility of going to right doesn't exist anymore, same for going backward. You can know that this happen, it not change that you obligated to follow this only futur because it's the only existing for you now.


Yiu have control over your fate based on your action except if someone deprive you of them and oblige you to chose only one action not complicated.


+If changing his fate and action was enough to evade her thing, luck in fate would be enough as it's literally the ability to passively changing your present action and fate when facing inevitable outcome. But it doesn't work.
 
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Since this was prompted by Musashi vs Zoro, I'll be giving my two-cents from that perspective.

Musashi's ability specifically locks down a specific series of events into occurring, only being counted by abilities that expressly create new timelines and thus possible series' of events. Precognition does not create new futures, not normally anyways and most certainly not Zoro's, so all it does is show the series of events that has already been chosen. This would work with basically any run-of-the-mill fate hax as well, given that those force a specific series of events as well and are just generally less thorough about it than Musashi. After all, what exactly is the point of messing with the future when, theoretically, people can still create new futures that you don't want?

tl;dr the latter option ("he will be "locked" into the only futur existing as guy B erased all the other.")
 
Depends entirely on the Precognition, not all forms of Precognition are born the same. But for the sake of the argument, let's say Kenbunshoku Haki users wouldn't be able to avoid having their Fate's messed with unless it's minor Fate Manipulation that only works for 5 seconds into the future then yes they could.

Context is what matters, there are definitely characters with precognition that can counter Fate manipulation but that's obviously not applicable to everyone with Precognition.

Read above.



not even sure why this thread was made since Zoro doesn't even have future sight so the OP is definitely confused as **** in that regard.
Fate manip that work only on 5sec are like mega rare, and if you try to talk about musashi then it would be false she can like chose the fight outcome from her possibility. She doesn't limited to 5sec fate. (She can litteraly use her eyes to see the other universe too)

You know why i made this thread so stop acting like that
 
Depends on the mechanism and precedence, as fate is in no way one regulated thing in fiction. So case by case.
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If i give you the two perso precisely and the description of what their thing is, would you give your opinion otherwise it will never finish i think?
 
Fate manip that work only on 5sec are like mega rare, and if you try to talk about musashi then it would be false she can like chose the fight outcome from her possibility. She doesn't limited to 5sec fate. (She can litteraly use her eyes to see the other universe too)

You know why i made this thread so stop acting like that
When the **** did I say she can only fate hax for 5 seconds? Like what are you even talking about? Stop rambling.
 
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