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Potential Hunter x Hunter upgrades.

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Zeno was not holding back in their fight... He literally planned to kill himself to ensure Chrollo's death (in a fight where chrollo wasn't aiming to kill). They both admit they almost died from silva's blast.

Chrollo couldn't handle the concentration of attacks from his ken knives, but he still tanked multiple hits from Zeno's dragon.

Zeno's comments at the end of the fight, at the very least, indicate extreme parity between the two. As Zeno claims a serious fight between the two would end in a completly different conclusion that Zeno confidently winning.
 
No, Chrollo was able to run away from Zeno and Silva at the same time because he effectively did no damage to either and ran away for the majority of the fight. Chrollo being able to run away from Zeno and Silva to buy time doesn't show they're pretty much equal.

Zeno saying that doesn't mean Chrollo is roughly his physical equal. Chrollo is fast and agile whilst having a dictionary worth of abilities. You tell me if he would be harder to kill in that case where he is tactically trying to kill rather than buy time.

Ok I'm not even going to argue why narratively it's wrong that Zeno was "sacrificing himself to guarantee victory".

I will simply say again that Chrollo being unable to block his stike by having less affinity to Enhancement is irrelevant. If he cannot physically stand Zeno's Ko to the point where he say "I cannot defend against that, I have no other choice but to summon my book and pull out a Hatsu to evade and buy time until Illumi kills the Dons" then it's clear Zeno is superior physically. So Zeno scales above physically.
 
I disagree, and you kinda just hand waved most of my arguments.

Regardless, I really don't care if the majority decide to scale Zeno above Chrollo, I think it's wrong but if that's what you want to do, feel free. They're extremely close to each other even if you do put Zeno slightly above.
 
>Pitou's gender Trick question. It's both. Male in manga, female in the anime, that's how they trick ya.
 
Yeah the Anime kinda decided to feminize Pitou for some reason, it's pretty clear Pitou is a he though.
 
I mean I'm certain I addressed most of why what you said doesn't mean they're roughly equal. Zeno is just physically superior, I don't mind but how much you guys want to argue I'm just making that crystal clear. For the record I don't believe Zeno was serious at all in that fight but I know most people will not agree.
 
LordUrien935 said:
Ah, the three greatest debates for HxH: Pitou's gender, the full capability of Rising Sun, and what the hell Zeno meant in his fight with Chrollo.
Click to expand...
Rising Sun or Pain Packer? Rising Sun is just an application of Pain Packer.
 
LordUrien935 said:
In the manga Pitou is drawn with a visible bust.
Click to expand...
Inconsistently, her(oops) his* chest kinda changes in size randomly. The Anime keeps it consistent though iirc. I don't like using Databooks, but Pitou is referred to as a "he" in one of them.
 
I don't think Togashi himself wrote the databook. I give that statement in the databook about as much credence as JoJo's databook saying Star Platinum is the most invincible Stand abilty ever known.
 
Dileeden said:
LordUrien935 said:
Ah, the three greatest debates for HxH: Pitou's gender, the full capability of Rising Sun, and what the hell Zeno meant in his fight with Chrollo.
Click to expand...
Rising Sun or Pain Packer? Rising Sun is just an application of Pain Packer.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Rising Sun. I've seen people claim Feitan could beat a Royal Guard with it (even though we see Pouf and Youpi unaffected by magma)
 
The Troupe vs one or two of the RGs at a time might be fair but Feitan is getting wrecked against anyone of them. The only one I could see them beat is an Early Youpi though even then it would be so hard it might not even be possible.
 
>I give that statement in the databook about as much credence as JoJo's databook saying Star Platinum is the most invincible Stand abilty ever known. The JoJo databook doesn't say that, in fact it explicitly says GER is the strongest Stand in power and physicality even ignoring its ability and is the Ultimate unbeatable Stand. Star Platinum stopped being considered the best after Part 4. Off topic to HxH but just saying.
 
Potentially. But only through diversions and Chrollo's Hatsu because none of them could do any significant damage whatsoever to Pitou or Youpi. Pitou might blitz them. Youpi has omnidirectional vision. Pouf is a genius. I would say a RG wins more often then not. They aren't going to let Chrollo cover them with Owl's Cloth.
 
Isn't there a way to calc Feitan's sun move? I recall something similar being done for Groudon's make shift sun. It could yeild good results.
 
"No, Chrollo was able to run away from Zeno and Silva at the same time because he effectively did no damage to either and ran away for the majority of the fight. Chrollo being able to run away from Zeno and Silva to buy time doesn't show they're pretty much equal."

Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? Chrollo was able to go up against Silva by himself at a younger age to begin with.

Secondly, BOTH silva and Zeno were aiming to kill Chrollo. That's a huge advantage you are skipping over in attempts to downplay chrollo. Despite TWO high tier humans fighting to kill him they did not succeed and Chrollo was given respect for keeping track of silva while Zeno was attacking him explicitly given respect for keeping track of silva while Zeno was attacking him .

Third, the fact that Zeno had to resort to killing himself to ensure Chrollo died speaks volumes of chrollo's ability. Chrollo didn't have to kill them to get impressive hype/portrayal from the fight.

Finally, Zeno himself pretty much admits that at the bare minumum they have parity. Given that they couldn't kill Chrollo despite his lack of killing intention, and there number advatage + killing intent.

"Zeno saying that doesn't mean Chrollo is roughly his physical equal. Chrollo is fast and agile whilst having a dictionary worth of abilities. You tell me if he would be harder to kill in that case where he is tactically trying to kill rather than buy time."

Chrollo isn't his physcal equal? Chrollo isn't physically strong, that doesn't change his durability (tanked multiple hits fromZeno's dragons , nen blast from zeno anddozens of fist strikes he blocked., same with silva ) or his reaction speed (was dodging Zeno while also keeping tabs on silva and not giving him an opening). Nor does it say anything about his nen potency.

"Ok I'm not even going to argue why narratively it's wrong that Zeno was "sacrificing himself to guarantee victory"."

This is literally the canonical truth of the situation. Not really sure at all how you could argue this point. "Kill him without consideration for me " which directly leads toZeno needing to pin Chrollo down long enough for Silva to kill them both as a means of traping Chrollo. Hence why zeno claims they almost died.
 
Dude I don't care. If you cannot counter the Ko point, Silva is physically superior and that was my point. If you disagree with me narratively and semantically I couldn't care less.
 
Beating a dead horse here at this point, but we're sure Killua doesn't meet the requirements for Genius? Because if the kids from Promised Neverland are ranked as Genius on this site...
 
Chariot190 said:
>I give that statement in the databook about as much credence as JoJo's databook saying Star Platinum is the most invincible Stand abilty ever known.
The JoJo databook doesn't say that, in fact it explicitly says GER is the strongest Stand in power and physicality even ignoring its ability and is the Ultimate unbeatable Stand. Star Platinum stopped being considered the best after Part 4. Off topic to HxH but just saying.
Click to expand...
Maybe not the official databook but when reading Stone Ocean, the info for Star Platinum called it "the most invincible ability"
 
Silva is stronger physically, that doesn't apply to nen or the false statements you were making which is what I intially responded to anyways. And chrollo is still durable to tank majority of what they through at him.
 
Chimera Ants are physically tougher than normal humans by default so probably? His new body might also allow him to be far more agile too.
 
Dileeden said:
A little off topic but do you guys think Kaito will get stronger than before with his new body?
Click to expand...
Yes

I think he retained his full memory and experiences, and he has a stronger body with presumably more potential.

He could honestly become High Tier bordering on God Tier at some point.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Yes as I said, I don't care. My point was Zeno is stronger the rest is just semantics. If you believe what I said is false, be my guest.
Click to expand...
Silva is physically stronger, Zeno most likely is as well. Physical strength doesn't scale to nen efficiency nor does it make them overall stronger.

Zeno potentially scaling to the RG would be based on his nen efficiency not his physical strength.
 
Silva is physically stronger, Zeno most likely is as well. Physical strength doesn't scale to nen efficiency nor does it make them overall stronger.

Zeno potentially scaling to the RG would be based on his nen efficiency not his physical strength.

As a matter of fact, Enhancement on top of physical strength is what I was talking about which is why I mentioned Ko because Nen can be explicitly used to amplify stats. So Zeno amping his strike with Ko>Chrollo.
 
>Maybe not the official databook but when reading Stone Ocean, the info for Star Platinum called it "the most invincible ability"

Yeah it's an excerpt from JoJo a gogo, a book that was being written prior to the completion of Part 5. When that exact quote was written the GER chapters technically weren't done yet. Which is true, Star Platinum is considered unbeatable in a 1v1 as it's the second strongest, durable, fastest Stand at the time and the author considers time stop to be the ultimate ability pre GER, which is a case of the author not realizing how broke ass Time Erase is but he's said as much in multiple interviews. This is later corrected though in JoJoveller. The line technically isn't wrong at the time of writing it and has since been officially corrected in the latest guide. This is off topic though to HxH, but I'm pointing out the line technically wasn't wrong at the time and it was used in stone ocean because the bio was copy pasted, this has since been fixed tho.

Anyway, about Feitan, if he creates a miniature sun it would be possible to calculate it's GBE and the energy needed to create it, it'd probably be a decent feat judging by Groudon's yeilding like small planet levels of power despite being only like 15+ kilometers. A room sized one by Feitan could maybe hit tier 7?
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Silva is physically stronger, Zeno most likely is as well. Physical strength doesn't scale to nen efficiency nor does it make them overall stronger.
Zeno potentially scaling to the RG would be based on his nen efficiency not his physical strength.
Click to expand...
As a matter of fact, Enhancement on top of physical strength is what I was talking about which is why I mentioned Ko because Nen can be explicitly used to amplify stats. So Zeno amping his strike with Ko>Chrollo.
yeah that's how nen works. Zeno is stronger and has better enhancment making his physical strikes better. Not sure how that affects scaling or makes Zeno stronger overall as a fighter. Chrollo is physically weaker than even Machi.
 
Chrollo can go toe to toe with those physically stronger because of skill, agility and Hatsu. Until the RGs and Meruem we were told that quantity of aura and physicality didn't mean everything in a nen fight because strategy and abilities. RGs and Meruem were make to mess with that system. Especially Meruem.
 
Yes and his durability, which as highlighted above, is also very high.

But once again Nen doesn't go based on physical stats alone.

Zeno accomplished his feat of scaring Pitou with hatsu. Nothing to do with his actual physical ability.

Chrollo is a comparable fighter, which was my point, and you claimed that no one would scale to Zeno's feat despite others being comparable. Then went on this thing about Zeno being stronger. If you meant physically then ok, but once again his Dragon has nothing to do with his physical stats. And many others can easily match or are much stronger than Zeno physically.
 
I know this already and I mean this thread is about AP ratings. Not who wins in a fight or who is comparable in a fight. I already put what I think above, if you don't agree then that's fine but I'm not arguing about that. I'm saying Zeno>Chrollo AP because Zeno physically bullies him.
 
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