Potential Hunter x Hunter upgrades.

[TheMerchant66]

Was looking over 3 calcs regarding the verse:

Meruems mountain busting feat is currently considered small city since it uses Pulverization. I decided to plug in the size of the mesa from the accepted calc

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:UchihaVision/Revisiting_HxH_2.0#comm-973966

But instead use Vaporization which I'll get to why I am advocating Vaporization later.

Volume of hill in the calc is 88944075000000 Cubic centimeters. Vaporization is 25700 joules per cubic centimeter. 88944075000000 x 25,700 is 2.2858627e+18 joules or 546.334297 megatons of TNT, Mountain level 7-A

Next is Menthuthuyoupi:

https://web.archive.org/web/2016050...s.com/xfa-blog-entry/chimera-ant-feats.15813/

This calc places Youpis crater with a volume of 533,988,500,000 cubic centimeters. Using Vaporization 533,988,500,000 x 25,700 is 1.3723504e+16 joules or 3.279 Megatons of TNT which would bump him, his Royal Guard peers, Netero, and pre Rose Meruem to small City, low 7-B.


Now, why should we use vaporization instead of Pulverization.

On Hisokas page he is accepted at 8-A Multi city block+ because of this calc

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Chrollo_Sun_%26_Moo

The reason why it's conaidered 8-A is because they agreed that the crater was caused by Vaporization because it the vapour shown there. My question is why isn't Youpi and Meruem accepted at Vaporization? Both caused way more smoke and Vapour, especially Youpi in the following scans.

https://ibb.co/p29WR4f

https://ibb.co/2Npdjg2

https://ibb.co/pW4R9Zg

https://ibb.co/2nNy1Mj

Meruems hill buster:

https://ibb.co/4R7HNxp

https://ibb.co/XbWfd99

The images show tons of Vaporized debris in comparison to Chrollos feat, so I'm unsure why the Vaporization values are not used.

Recap:

Post-Rose Meruem Vaporizing that Mesa: 546 Megatons of TNT 7-A

Menthuthuyoupis Rage explosion: 3.279 Megatons of TNT low 7-B

If accepted, these would be massive upgrades for the High tiers such as the Guards Neferpitou, Shaiapouf, and Netero scaling from Youpis explosion. Meruem would gain a massige boost in DC for his Post-Rose form.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

They are vaporization or at the very least melting. I will detail later when I get back from work.

 

[Uniasha]

pls do this after the forum movement

 

[Purgy]

Vaporization is the lack of anything remaining, at least according to what it says on the calc page. All the above feats have debris flying out and surrounding the explosion/crater. I don't know why it was accepted for the Chrollo calc, but I don't think it should have been based on what the wiki qualifies as Vaporization. Vapor/Smoke/Dust isn't enough, at least when there's clearly debris still remaining from the explosions.

For example, this is what true Vaporization should actually look like, notice how clean and smooth everything is? And most of all, no debris.

It's possible that the feat is Vaporization, but given that some debris even though not a lot, does remain, I'm not sure if it should be counted as true Vaporization instead of Pulverization which is probably a safer bet.

Having said that, I'm neutral on this so far, and will wait to see what others have to say.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

The youpi and Meruem feats are both melting or vaporization feats. We can tell what type of damage was done by the environmental cues.

Vaproization will inherently leave behind, well vapor/smoke. Melting will usually behind a mix of smoke/vapor depending on the feat. Pulverization will produce debris which is an important difference. Solid matter in the atmoshphere will act differently than gas. Will gases will trend upward and out, pulverization willspread much more slowly (diff sfx as well) and eventually settle after the kinetic event due to the particulates being much heavier/dense solid matter .

Here with yuupi's feat we can see the immediate aftermath of the blast. The smoke/vapor is bellowing upwards. Not in the omnidirection of the blast. This is important as debris would originally be blown in the direction of the blast (omnidirectionally.) and bepropelled in that directio until counter forces could stabilize it. This smoke is bellowing after the initial explosion and trending upward.

To bolster this we then get a far shot of the explosion after effects . We can clearly seen the material is still trending upward like a gaseous cloud as opposed to heavier particles.

To even further bolster this, we can use Togashi's on panel sfx to draw a comparison between the two events and how they affected the environment. Youpi's crater as he stands amongst vapor. Rose bomb crater after the fire went out. We know nukes vape at ground zero and have thus can compare how the author draws an event with such power.

Similar situation with Meruem

Thus pulverization is not evidenced here, and would instead be one of melting or vaping. I'd side with the former given nuke comparisons and amount of white gaseous material was deposited into the air.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Also of note that High Tier hunters should scale to this or at the very least an extremely close amount. Morel's smoke jail was completely unmoved and even protected the building inside of the cloud. This being a morel who was running on fumes of his nen tank. Now I don't think this scales freely to high tier hunters, I do think it should scale to high end hunter Hatsu AP.

 

[LordUrien935]

I was planning on doing this after the forum move but it looks like you beat me to it. Definitely a higher upgrade than what I had in mind though. The calc I read put Youpi's rage blast at High 7-C at 123 Kilotons, but if vaporization is accepted then it looks like Youpi and Pitou will be Low 7-B, and by default so is Pre-Rose Meruem, Isaac Netero and Adult Gon. Pouf doesn't fully scale since he's explicitly stated to be the weakest RG physically so he might simply be High 7-C. I also found a calc of the Rose Bomb being 50 Megatons, not 18 as is currently, and if his mesa busting feat is legit vaporization then HxH will finally have a 7-A, not to mention that the feat was performed super casually. Doesn't mess up scaling either since no one scales to Post-Rose.

 

[LordUrien935]

Also of note that High Tier hunters should scale to this or at the very least an extremely close amount. Morel's smoke jail was completely unmoved and even protected the building inside of the cloud. This being a morel who was running on fumes of his nen tank. Now I don't think this scales freely to high tier hunters, I do think it should scale to high end hunter Hatsu AP.

Yes, I agree as well. I proposed the strongest human Nen users in the series (Zeno/Silva/Chrollo/Hisoka/Illumi/Zodiacs/Razor/Morel/Kite) to be Low 7-C at minimum, and if the Royal Guards are actually Low 7-B instead of High 7-C like I thought then they might be even higher than that. The Troupe varies from 8-A+ to Low 7-C, with even the weakest of them being able to create 50 tall buildings instantly. I think in general Hunters with Stars qualify for 8-A+ to Low 7-C, and Greed Island players like Genthru and Tsezguerra should be 8-A+, especially since a weaker Bomber than Genthru survived a blow from a bloodlusted Biscuit who is evaluated by databooks to be stronger than Kite. Tsezguerra being 8-A+ also makes more sense as to how he survived a ball throw from Razor. Gon's Rock varies, with it being 8-B normally, and Low 7-C when empowered by emotions.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Feats have been done by an amazing calcer Chaostheory123 .

Also did Bombadier Chimera Ant explosio which small town level. A blast that Killua casually tanked in base.

 

[LordUrien935]

If that's legit then everyone and their mother in HxH is being upgraded to Tier 7 since Killua is the backbone of all scaling in this verse.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Not much else to say other than I agree with Merchant, Urien and Dr whiteee. Though it seems pulverisation is contentious? Maybe ask a few calc group members after the lockdown is over.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Yep and the calc is sound.

 

[TheMerchant66]

Didn't know about that calc behind redone regarding Killua and the farting Ant. With that and my evaluation it's all pretty consistent.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ive contacted the staff listed on the hunter x hunter verse page to have a look at this.

 

[Damage3245]

The durability of Morel's Nen smoke constructs can't be used to find his AP. Depending on their application some of his constructs are much more durable than others.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

It can be applied to other's AP and his defense/traps with SJ. Morel's still needs to add energy in the form of nen to be capable of being that strong as a manipulator. That tells us how potent his nen is. It doesn't scale freely, only to his smoke Jail. And thus should scale to high end hatsu of comparable people.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Not necessarily. For all we know he could have limitations on Smoky Jail making it that durable which cannot scale normally through aura output and capacity. For it to be able to tank a rage induced explosion from Youpi?

Youpi's Capacity is >>>10x that of a 100% Morel, it's so much that Knuckle couldn't see the limit. Morel used Smoky Jail at around 30% Capacity so I think that assumption of limitations being on it is a good one.

 

[Damage3245]

Amount of energy put into it can sometimes have nothing to do with durability. Remember the nigh-invincible APR?

Therefore it can't scale to the Hatsu of any other character.

 

[LordUrien935]

What I want to know most is if the Bombardier Ant's calc is legit. If I were to request it in a calc forum it would be a definitive Priority 1.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Amount of energy put into it can sometimes have nothing to do with durability. Remember the nigh-invincible APR?
Therefore it can't scale to the Hatsu of any other character.

This is a false equivalence. APR is a mascot character that is created out of nen, it's a manifestation of the ability he is using.

Morel is explicitly increasing the durability of the smoke he is transmuting via his own nen through manipulation. The same way Uvo thought Kurapika was doing with his chains, and what the Beyblade did in HA.

It's disingenious to compare them like that when we know the mechanics of how Morel strengthens his smoke.

 

[Purgy]

What I want to know most is if the Bombardier Ant's calc is legit. If I were to request it in a calc forum it would be a definitive Priority 1.

Why not just do it? If it's wrong then it's wrong, can't hurt to see.

 

[TheMerchant66]

Killua at that time when he tanked the Farting Ants explosion was below Morel and Knov, just letting y'all know.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

And I'd like to point out that while the RG are defintely stronger than High Tier hunters, it is not by as much as people like to think.

Kite was able to land hits on Pitou and impress him. This was a newly awakened nen Pitou but irregardless Pitou was still a monster, and Kite had one arm which he lost only to protect Gon/killua.

Pitou was extremely hyped to fight Morel.

Zeno's Drago Dive threatened Pitou so much that his EN went into overtime to protect from it.

Morel's strongest hatsu being able to protect from Youpi's blast is not farfetched that plugging in answers to ignore the feat is something that needs to be done.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

We don't actually know what that blood is but assuming it's from Kite landing hits, it isn't any significant damage whatsoever.

Pitou being hyped to fight Morel is only through the strategic and tactical nature of his puppets being superior to hers. Not power.

Zeno is kind of an anomaly to be honest. He's probably the strongest human in that bunch.

I still think there's way more to it than just "output my aura" and it scaling to Youpi. Doesn't make any narrative sense or feat wise sense if we don't take into account limitations and contracts which can multiply an abilities effectiveness/power etc. We cannot scale it due to the nature of limitations and contracts.

I'm not sure why Morel is relevant at all to the scaling though, if anything it looks to mess it up a little.

 

[TheMerchant66]

Since we're on the topic Uvogins BBI on his profile leads to a calc that places the crater he makes at 2133600000 cubic centimeters. Using Vaporization 2133600000 x 25700 is 5.483352e+13 joules or 13.1 Kilotons of TNT, just mentioning tbis if Killua is accepted at small town level since the Ryodan are still portrayed above that version of him.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

The higher members maybe. The lower tier members like Kortopi and Shalnark aren't really portrayed as superior and then again we still need to take into account their fights with the Chimera Ants.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Since we're on the topic Uvogins BBI on his profile leads to a calc that places the crater he makes at 2133600000 cubic centimeters. Using Vaporization 2133600000 x 25700 is 5.483352e+13 joules or 13.1 Kilotons of TNT, just mentioning tbis if Killua is accepted at small town level since the Ryodan are still portrayed above that version of him.

Uvogin's crater was explicitly not vaporizatio .

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

The anime at least portrays as literal erasure of the rock to note. Though we might have to disregard that idk.

 

[LordUrien935]

8-A+: Kortopi, Shizuku, Shalnark, Pakunoda and maybe Bonolenov. Not sure about Kalluto. He's WAY below the others.

Tier 7 range: Chrollo, Phinks, Uvogin, Nobunaga, Feitan, Machi, Franklin, and Shalnark in Autopilot.

 

[Strawboi]

What about characters from Sucession War Arc?

 

[LordUrien935]

It could be argued that Uvogin wasn't using his full strength when using Big Bang Impact on Worm. But yeah it's weird because the anime explicitly shows that there's nothing left compared to the abundant debris in the manga.

 

[TheMerchant66]

The later panels show steam coming from Uvos crater though I can admit I might have jumped the gun, there is a possibility Killua surpassed Uvo if we accept the Farting Ant at small town for him. And yes, only the high tier members would have that scaling.

I also forgot to compare the fight with the Ants although I feel the portrayals of said fights will be inconsistent.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Killua surpassing Uvo sounds super dumb tbh

 

[LordUrien935]

No, I vehemently disagree on Killua > Uvogin.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

What about characters from Sucession War Arc?

Succession War is more haxy but we have Halkenburg who scales way above Kurapika at least.

 

[LordUrien935]

What about characters from Sucession War Arc?

Kurapika in Emperor Time should be Tier 7 so Halkenburg should scale to it.

Tserriednich and the others are featless so they stay where they are currently.

 

[Purgy]

And I'd like to point out that while the RG are defintely stronger than High Tier hunters, it is not by as much as people like to think.
Kite was able to land hits on Pitou and impress him. This was a newly awakened nen Pitou but irregardless Pitou was still a monster, and Kite had one arm which he lost only to protect Gon/killua.

Pitou was extremely hyped to fight Morel.

Zeno's Drago Dive threatened Pitou so much that his EN went into overtime to protect from it.

Morel's strongest hatsu being able to protect from Youpi's blast is not farfetched that plugging in answers to ignore the feat is something that needs to be done.

We have statements saying that all of the hunters who went there including Morel, are fodder to the Royal Guards, we even have two statements saying that the Royal Guard individually would beat Netero. We have a statement from Youpi stating nobody there has even 1/10th his strength.

Your first argument is moot for the very reason you tried justifying it with, Pitou was without Nen and had only just been born, their fight also happened off panel.

The second is also moot given that being excited to fight somebody isn't the same as them being even remotely on your level, given how powerful the Royal Guard are, I'd imagine anybody who's even remotely strong is exciting to fight, they're not exactly spoilt for choice in terms of fighting people on their tier. Also, given how Pitou is talking about his puppets, it's more likely she's excited due to his skill with Nen.

Zeno wasn't alone, Netero was with him, and Pitou actually went for Netero instead of Zeno. And honestly, even if Pitou had gone after Zeno, Zeno is like at the peak of high tier so it wouldn't even matter. Also, saying it "threatened Pitou so much" is honestly ridiculous, Pitou wasn't threatened in the least, her job is to guard the palace with her En, that's what she was doing.

Lastly, there are multiple statements in Hunter x Hunter that say a fight comes down to abilities and knowledge on your opponent as oppose to raw power, which is also shown, which would explain why Nen Masters such as Morel and Kite would be able to somewhat keep up with relatively speaking, Nen Amateurs (Even though the Royal Guard are Genius in terms of Nen development).

The Royal Guard are significantly above any Human in almost every capacity with the exception of maybe Netero depending on how you interpret conflicting statements and feats.

I'm vehemently against Morel and people of his tier scaling to one of Youpi's strongest attacks, it goes against everything the story has told us.

 

[TheMerchant66]

No, I vehemently disagree on Killua > Uvogin.

That's why i feel his BBI should be using Vaporization values or I suppose we can just assume Uvos BBI is only small town+

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

BBI we're using DC but we could just say Uvo scales AP wise anyway without the DC. The anime portrays it more consistently than the manga lol.

 

[LordUrien935]

It makes sense sure, but the panels clearly show it's not vaporization. It's safer to assume that Uvogin wasn't using his full power since Machi kinda disregards the DC by saying "It's just a straight punch with some Nen added"