Possibly upgrade for eternity?

[Antvasima]

I would personally find it more likely that he simply created another smaller High 1-B realm outside of himself, similarly to how the First Firmament created the new multiverse, although willingly rather than unwillingly.

 

[TheSandman31]

How can a non-euclidean space be beyond space when it is just curved space?

 

[DarkLK]

Non-Euclidean =/= dimensionless.

 

[Antvasima]

@TheSandman31

That was my interpretation as well.

@DarkLK

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay. The two realms however share almost ridiculous amounts of similarities though.: - Outside Eternity - Both stated to be created by Eternity - Both are shown to be nothing and fornless. - Both "white" in color

Also.. Looking at the wikia, the Land that Shouldn't / Couldn't Be was stayed directly to be Eternity's Realm. So... It is implied they are one in the same.

Also.... Thank you Sandman and DarkLK for the assist for the Non-Euclidean debate.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Wait, what about the edge of known science? Science and math include 1-A realms. So would that count depending on how literally it gets taken?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Non-euclidian Space is not dimensionless.

 

[Antvasima]

@Lightbuster30

I think that 1-A is supposed to be beyond science, and that requires too much personal interpretation in the first place.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

...... @Light . That... Is actually true. Hmmm.....

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, if there is no explicit proof for a 1-A Multi-Eternity, I think that we should soon close this thread. I do not have limitless time and energy available.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

So I assume the only "legitimate" evidence we have for 1-A God-Tiers [ Abstracts and those comparable, if not stronger or in a similar level ] is that the Land that Shouldn't Be is heavily implied to be Eternity's Realm, as it was referred as such in the comics and the wikia. Yes, the same one from the Dormammu Comics where he became Lord of all Creation, and the realm " transcended all levels of reality and dream ".

 

[Lightbuster30]

@Lightbuster30

I think that 1-A is supposed to be beyond science, and that requires too much personal interpretation in the first place.

According to Aeyu, 1-A is very within science and mathematics. Or am I thinking of the latter? She said something about how you'd need to be limitless to transcend science since that would make you beyond any form of logic, I can link you to the discussion on her wall if need be. To my knowledge 1-A does follow logic, just none that can be explained with dimension based logic.

 

[Antvasima]

I highly doubt that the 2005 Defenders comicbook mentioned the exact same realm as the Never Queen and Eternity created 11-12 years later.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, Dormammu beating Multi-Eternity is a massive outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

As far as I remember, Aeyu was trying to upgrade the Downstreamers, but was disproven by Azathoth.

 

[Lightbuster30]

As far as I remember, Aeyu was trying to upgrade the Downstreamers, but was disproven by Azathoth.

Well that was because there wasn't enough evidence of their multiverse type being IV iirc.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

It was pretty much stated as the exact same realm. I know it makes no sense whatsoever... But It apparently is so.

I know this... Yes I do. I never mentioned it once, and Dormmamu isn't going to be upgraded unless we put a key with him having that amp after absorbing Eternity

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I am going to bed now. I would appreciate if you try to make sure that this thread does not go completely out of control while I am asleep Matthew.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Good night Antvasima.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's keep this to general vectorspaces, for the sake of simplicity in choosing sources:

Here is a linear algebra I script from some university.

See definition 4.5.12 for the definition of a basis of a vectorspace.

Based on this definition is Definition 4.6.3 dimension, which defines the dimension of a Vectorspace as the number of elements in one of its basis.

According to the fundamental theorem of linear algebra every vectorspace has a basis, meaning every vectorspace also has a dimension.

Now according to the Definition 5.3.6 here, we see that a vectorspace is euclidean if and only if one introduces it as a pair with a scalar product.

Simple to see: not all vectorspaces are euclidean, but all have a dimension. (For example every normed vectorspace, whichs norm isn't induced by a scalar product. The 2 dimensional real number space with the norm ||(x,y)|| = |x|+|y| should be an example for that)

Meaning there exist non-euclidean spaces, which have a dimension.

De facto dimension is a much more fundamental concept than is euclidean and non-euclidean.

 

[Antvasima]

Good night. I would still prefer to close this thread though. It is very tiresome to deal with, and there is no concrete evidence, so I do not think that it will lead anywhere.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Thank you , Ant. However ... You still haven't proven the realms are separate though, Ant. No offense, but what I felt was more... Uhmm... Opinion-based rather than refuting me with facts. Both were referred to as Eternity's Realm, both have too many similarities and are "conveniently" located in the exact same space and "conveniently" have the exact same coloration.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

No problem.

Matthew Schroeder ... Just curious. Do you have any opinion on the likely connection between the Land that Shouldn't/Couldn't Be and Eternity's Realm displayed in Ultimates, Secret Wars, and The Defenders being in fact the same realm ?

 

[Lightbuster30]

No problem.

Matthew Schroeder ... Just curious. Do you have any opinion on the likely connection between the Land that Shouldn't/Couldn't Be and Eternity's Realm displayed in Ultimates, Secret Wars, and The Defenders being in fact the same realm ?

Wasn't it beyond all the abstracts? Including Eternity? I think even Eternity had no clue what the place was, so why would he have a realm he doesn't know about? (B

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

they don't and marvel wikia is wrong

I think al ewing forgot about the shouldn't be couldn't be

since the outside was supposed to be dark (as prove you can even read the previous issues on the vol 1)

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Uhmm.... No. Eternity created it when he interacted with Never Queen. No other explanation was given on it's creation. He never once referred to it as his realm , the narration however has + characters have though.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

let's close this thread it's impossible to argue a realm that is beyond the infinite D multiverse isn't atleast high 1-B

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I would like to conclude this though. If both are the same realm, and Eternity's Realm was shown to be 1-A, then it scales to Eternity because he created it.

Uhmm... Why mention the Outside. Eternity's Realm was never meant to be The Outside. It is outside Eternity's Realm. If this wasn't the case... Directly outside of Eternity , and all around him would be darkness... Which wasn't portrayed in Ultimates or Secret Wars.

The Higher Evolutionaries have this statement " They are manipulating reality beyond the concept of time and space as we know them ". Would this count as 1-A ?

Also " All the myriad aspects of tome & space "... It was stated in the Heroes Reborn story arc . Wouldn't this be High 1-B ? I want to make sure what counts as 2-A or High 1-B, in case we find more proof for High 1-B instead of 1-A in this thread.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

The white space in ultimates was clearly called the outside.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

and if you read ultimates vol 1 the outside was clearly dark.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

In Ultimates it was pitch black though. I'm not joking. Remember the scan Sandman showed earlier ? The Outside was pitch black.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Ugh seed I know that... But i have read the ultimates stories and it clearly said the white space is the outside. there is no prove it is the land of couldn't shouldn't be

also the land of couldn't be shouldnt be is infinite void.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I'm trying to prove Eternity's Realm is the Land that Shouldn't/Couldn't Be. I'm not trying to prove that the Land that shouldn't/couldn't be is The Outside. In fact, everything in their mother contradict such a notion.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

then the eternity realm you been talking about wasn't in the ultimates.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

It was. The white space we saw Eternity in. That was Eternity's Realm.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

prove it wasn't the outside as it was shown in this picture.

if you read this issue eternity was very close to galactus but he was suppossedly inside the outside.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

The last 4 scans are the most important and btw, I suggest you read all of them before jumping immediately to conclusions first, thx.


"B-But Galactus with Lifebringer is only "At least Multiver..."" Galactus w/ Lifebringer is far stronger than you think.


Broke through 1-A chains made by the First Firmament after becoming much stronger and presumably regained his full strength later on. Don't forget that the time First Firmament chained Multi-Eternity at first is when Multi-Eternity was at his weakest which was directly mentioned at around the very beginning of the comic in the next scan below.



"He will only siphon energy and life outside this reality, slowly, at first imperceptibly..." The only way Galactus could possibly accomplish this while existing outside of Multi-Eternity is with the Lifebringer which I highly believe that's the only method that allows him to do so. "Then faster and faster, all time and space, sprialing away to the first firmament...leaving nothing behind." Definition of Sprialing: "decrease or deteriorate continuously." Aaaaaaand just like that, the First Firament is officially 1-A now, like what are the odds of that? And being able to completely destroy Multi-Eternity is a 1-A feat now since he technically does indeed embodies all of time and space after all for various & obvious reasons.


Please tell me how does a "regular High 1-B being" was capable of doing this to the First Firmament after almost being devoured and reduced to nothingness?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

How do any of those imply 1-A though ? I read all of them...

 

[Magi_Hussie]

@The 2nd Existential

"Then faster and faster, all time and space, sprialing away to the first firmament...leaving nothing behind."

Definition of Sprialing: "decrease or deteriorate continuously."

1-A.

>Multi-Eternity broke through chains that were made by the same 1-A (First Firmament) while at his weakest.

>Multi-Eternity burst through the First Firament's body after being compressed from a single multiverse to a single universe and almost devoured & reduced to nothingness.

Those can be considered to be 1-A feats.