Possible Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation upgrade - Maou Gakuin

[Dereck03]

Each HFG is independent of the reality it governs, since the deeper it is the higher level of reality, since a shallow HFG does not have to govern the higher reality.

 

[imZer0Null]

I'm pretty sure it need for concept.

You tell yourself that they are the same concept. It's the same concept existing in higher layer, exerting different lvl of power depending on which reality he is. Which litteraly it can't be dependent of reality.

You don't need to be independent of all other order but being independent of all reality which not the case here.


I'm sorry but you just want to wank Anos here.

Okay. It seems like you're ignoring what's already been said in this thread.
Please actually read what we say instead of stonewalling our arguments with the same recycled argument.
Nothing you've brought up disproves that the Order of Order is independent of the thing that it governs.

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

You need. All Reality not just some.....

"These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in"

The militia world is already the universe who has concept on it's own

It's the reality THAT NOUSGALIA GOVERN

 

[Regidian]

Each HFG is independent of the reality it governs, since the deeper it is the higher level of reality, since a shallow HFG does not have to govern the higher reality.

You need to be dependent of all reality it's govern and i'm pretty sure it each only one HFG

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

"For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept."

Don't crop the example here

 

[Dereck03]

You need to be dependent of all reality, not one

Nousgalia is already independent of the reality it governs, just as the HFG of layer 99 is already independent of the reality it governs, thus making it the order of the strongest order of all the sirver sea, it is the same since here in Maou Gakuin there is a difference of higher realities between layers.

 

[Regidian]

"For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept."

Don't crop the example here

The OP litteraly answer you, it doesn't even know if the order of order do that

2. I'm uncertain if altering the Order of Order would change all other order in the world (though it's possible)

 

[Regidian]

Nousgalia is already independent of the reality it governs, just as the HFG of layer 99 is already independent of the reality it governs, thus making it the order of the strongest order of all the sirver sea, it is the same since here in Maou Gakuin there is a difference of higher realities between layers.

HFG can't be independent if his power differ between each layer of reality.

 

[Dereck03]

Hey, "not sure if you alter it", but if you were to destroy or disrupt the order of order, reality and all the other orders that the order of order maintains would be destroyed, although this would not affect Nousgalia.

 

[imZer0Null]

The OP literally answer you, it doesn't even know if the order of order do that

2. I'm uncertain if altering the Order of Order would change all other order in the world (though it's possible)

Yet disrupting the Order of Order, which could be considered altering it, disrupts and destroys all other order the Order of Order governs...
This again is not the case for any other order except for the Chief God's order.

 

[Dereck03]

HFG can't be independent if his power differ between each layer of reality.

If all layers were the same, there would be only one HFG, but since each one is a different plane of existence, there are HFGs according to the reality that governs each one.

 

[Regidian]

If all layers were the same, there would be only one HFG, but since each one is a different plane of existence, there are HFGs according to the reality that governs each one.

I will ask one thing.

Does HFG govern all 99 layer or one? (Because OP seem to tell/show that it govern all 99 one)

It's quite simple if HFG govern all 99 layer it mean that destroy something in layer 1 will destroy a thing in layer 99 because all of them are governed by the same HFG And he independent of them sl don't give a shit about higher layer or lower.

If you can destroy one concept of HFG in layer 3 but the same concept of HFG still exist in layer 97 i'm pretty sure that mean that HFG is not independent of the reality as it will exist one HFG by reality.

 

[Dereck03]

Each HFG governs its own layer, i.e. if reality, the order of order exists across the silver sea, but at a higher level of reality the deeper the layer, while an HFG of layer 1 can only govern the reality of layer 1 they can't govern the reality in layer 2, cuz that's a Higher level of reality, an HFG can govern the reality of layer 2 and also that of layer 1, since the power of the order of order is superior in the deeper layers.

 

[imZer0Null]

I will ask one thing.

Does HFG govern all 99 layer or one? (Because OP seem to tell/show that it govern all 99 one)

It's quite simple if HFG govern all 99 layer it mean that destroy something in layer 1 will destroy a thing in layer 99 because all of them are governed by the same HFG And he independent of them sl don't give a shit about higher layer or lower.

If you can destroy one concept of HFG in layer 3 but the same concept of HFG still exist in layer 97 i'm pretty sure that mean that HFG is not independent of the reality as it will exist one HFG by reality.

There's no reason the shallow Order of Order, which governs other shallow order, should affect deep order, when there's a deep Order of Order which governs that.

If you destoy the entirety of the Order of Order, all other order throughout the Silver Sea will be destroyed. Simple as that.

I also advise you to stop cropping quotes to fit your argument, when the rest of the quote debunks your argument.

 

[Regidian]

There's no reason the shallow Order of Order, which governs other shallow order, should affect deep order, when there's a deep Order of Order which governs that.

If you destoy the entirety of the Order of Order, all other order throughout the Silver Sea will be destroyed. Simple as that.

I also advise you to stop cropping quotes to fit your argument, when the rest of the quote debunks your argument.

Cropping quote? Nothing of the quote in the OP debunk what i try to understand.

Anyways i don't really see anything that lead to cm1 it's just seem a bigger cm2 to me.


You guy should ask the knowledge member of concept type to come

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

Anyways i don't really see anything that lead to cm1 it's just seem a bigger cm2 to me.

didn't affected by the destruction of the reality he govern
affected the whole reality he govern if he dies

Bigger cm2 which is we already had it

I sleep

You guy should ask the knowledge member of concept type to come

Somebody call yuri and oblivion plss

 

[deonment]

And it exist 99 layer so it would be 99 above baseline if this was even possible(and i'm pretty sure what you tell can disqualify it as cm1).

The rest of the forms and the form of the good

 

[Yzak]

seems reasonable. I agree with this

 

[DarlingAurora]

I agree with this too.

 

[Ness21]

Cropping quote? Nothing of the quote in the OP debunk what i try to understand.

Anyways i don't really see anything that lead to cm1 it's just seem a bigger cm2 to me.

Ohayo minasan

Ayee.. what do you think
HGF will become CM1 as described above
For your argument, each bubble has its own reality and with each layer up... the level of reality will increase. Even you are out of topic in this CRT.

What is being discussed here is that HGF is not all layers in Silversea, and to get CM1 it is not necessary to reach the Silversea level.

 

[QuasiYuri]

Neutral since it isn't clear-cut type 1 as far as I see, but leaning toward agreement.

 

[Verrel966]

I agree

 

[Verrel966]

The difference between layer are not infinite for what i know (he will never be only 2-B otherwise).

And it does, cm1 type 1 need to be independent of the reality their gover which is not the case her since their power/what they can exert depend on the reality their are. If their are the same concept destroy concept x in layer 0 should destroy concept x in layer 99 as their are the same concept existing in the same dimmensionnality.


Having different exert of power with different layer of reality mean that their are not independent since like you tell yourself concept X in layer 0 and concept X in layer 99 is the same concept but they don't have same power between all reality.

The silver sea consists of 99 layers, where each layer is in a different dimension.

 

[Marciano15]

agree

 

[InfiniteCosmology]

Oye,Null, count me as agree too.

 

[Delta333]

agree

 

[Antvasima]

@GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Moritzva @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest

Would you be willing to help out with evaluating this as well please?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I dont see a problem here, so I agree with the CTR

 

[Dereck03]

Bump

 

[Yzak]

Bump

 

[Marciano15]

The silver sea consists of 99 layers, where each layer is in a different dimension.

why are you here?

 

[Bernkastelll]

why are you here?

Ouch? He can be here

 

[Marciano15]

The silver sea consists of 99 layers, where each layer is in a different dimension.

what other tricks are you doing:v

 

[Marciano15]

The silver sea consists of 99 layers, where each layer is in a different dimension.

You only act as a spectator, not as a debater

 

[Verrel966]

You only act as a spectator, not as a debater

Sorry

 

[Dereck03]

Stop derailing here

 

[PrinceofPein]

Also neutral leaning towards disagreeing btw
i have not read the LN and no little about it so i may be wrong so correct me about this.
1. Some of the scans are taken out of context e.g. adding a line from WN 29 to one from WN 120,
2. The heavenly father order is said to be a type 1 concept by the OP, but in the same OP there is this scan

If the Heavenly Father God is destroyed, the order of the world will be disturbed and eventually destroyed

If it was a type one concept that governs everything, it will not be disturbed it will be simply destruction not a gradual destruction like the scan says. type 1 concept are not pillars of a house, they are the house. so destroying a type 1 concept is suppose to make everything in the reality of the said concept stop existing immediately not gradually.

but this tho should qualify for type 1 CM although it is shaky and can still be type 2 CM

<Venuzdonoa> is a weapon created by the Order of Destruction. The order was not completely erased, but rather disrupted and turned into a weapon. After removing the order from the natural system of the world, the concept of destruction and all laws related to it across the entire world was affected.

 

[imZer0Null]

1. Some of the scans are taken out of context e.g. adding a line from WN 29 to one from WN 120

If you think the scans are taken out of context for some reason, then feel free to read the actual chapters. I did give the chapter numbers for the statements after all.
Here is the web novel.

2. The heavenly father order is said to be a type 1 concept by the OP, but in the same OP there is this scan

If it was a type one concept that governs everything, it will not be disturbed it will be simply destruction not a gradual destruction like the scan says. type 1 concept are not pillars of a house, they are the house. so destroying a type 1 concept is suppose to make everything in the reality of the said concept stop existing immediately not gradually.

This could possibly be a valid argument, but there is one problem:

If the Heavenly Father God is destroyed, the order of the world will be disturbed and eventually destroyed.

Gods only maintain order, therefore a God's death =/= destruction of their order, but a God's death = order not being maintained, which would disrupt the order (remove the order from the natural system of the world).

You might have thought that HFG's destruction = destruction of his order, but that is false.
If the Heavenly Father God is destroyed, and his order is therefore disrupted, not destroyed, all other order in the world would be disrupted and destroyed.

 

[PrinceofPein]

This could possibly be a valid argument, but there is one problem:




You might have thought that HFG's destruction = destruction of his order, but that is false.
If the Heavenly Father God is destroyed, and his order is therefore disrupted, not destroyed, all other order in the world would be disrupted and destroyed.

well this is definitely not type 1
if the order death is not the destruction but simply maintenance issue, it is not type 1

 

[Dereck03]

well this is definitely not type 1
if the order death is not the destruction but simply maintenance issue, it is not type 1

What are you talking about?

A mere disruption of the order of order would destroy the entire reality and all orders will be destroyed unilaterally, if any other order is disrupted or destroyed it will not affect the order of order but will affect the whole reality... If all orders and reality is destroyed it will not affect the HFG and the order of order as well