Possible Marioverse Upgrades

[Metal875]

Okay, so we're going to be covering a lot here. I hope you guys are okay with that.

Wario Issues
First off, Black Jewel and Wario aren't getting the respect they deserve for a certain, very important feat.


As you can tell, Black Jewel is what held his realm together--by destroying him, his realm along with its space-time were erased. This would also give Wario Infinite speed due to moving within a timeless void, but I don't think that should be added.

Regardless, the destruction of a space-time continuum is Low 2-C. And Wario has another feat that backs this up...

Rudy the Clown was a threat to both the music box world and the "outer one." By outer one, Rudy is talking about the actual Marioverse.

The old man actually backs this up by using it towards the context of a universe here. So Rudy was a threat to the safety of two universes, which backs up Black Jewel's erasure of his realm.

If both are not valid, Wario should, at the very least (along with Black Jewel) get a solid 4-A tier, because Black Jewel's realm clearly contains numerous stars.

Super Paper Mario
Hoo boy, this one's gonna be long, and likely longer than the other things addressed here.

Attack Potency
As most would know, The Void consumes all worlds, all dimensions, all timelines (by making it as if those worlds and dimensions never existed at all) and possibilities (erases the future, allowing (Super) Dimentio to create his own).

The most debatable thing that has ever been made about this is the "all dimensions" part. First, I wanna prove why they are referring to mathematical dimensions. Of course, that would require some quotes.

All the secrets of the universe are contained in this soup. Drink not, lest you learn more than man was ever meant to know.

This is a treasure within Wario: Master of Disguise that shows that the Marioverse has secrets residing within String Theory.

This is reliable because the soup was locked up in a museum before Wario stole it--clearly it was something special, to be locked up and hidden from man.

So, when The Void was consuming all dimensions--it was consuming all eleven dimensions.

But I'm not quite finished yet--there's more to this upgrade. Far more, actually. Of course, we're already within the constraints of Tier 1-C. Shall we go further?

I present that the base forms of Paper Mario characters--Paper Mario w/o Pure Hearts, and base Dimentio are High 1-C, whilst them being powered by their respective hearts are Low 1-B. The proof?

Well, let's set things up first. More quotes.

Tippi said: This sage was very wise and is even said to have written the Light Prognosticus... He was also a great magician who could control dimensions...

The statements that were emboldened will come in handy later.

Next...

The Light Prognosticus"] The Void will swallow all... Naught can stop it... unless the one protected by the dark power is destroyed. The hero with the power of eight Pure Hearts will rise to this task. [/quote]
Now, please recall that Merloo wrote the Light Prognosticus. And he is saying that not even he can stop this prophecy. Of course, he controls dimensions--so Super Dimentio clearly has to be beyond his reach of power--a twelfth dimensional being.

Believe it or not, this is actually backed up by something else. And that something else is backed up be a quote from this very wiki.

Death Manipulation"] The death of the manipulation, as a concept, open wide opportunities. With this, you can instantly both kill an object and on the contrary, make it immortal, depriving it of the concept of death. In addition, you can kill even conceptually immortal beings, if your concept is stronger than the concept of a target. [/quote]
So... Queen Jaydes. Gotta love her, right?

Now, I'm proposing that Queen Jaydes has power over the concepts of life and death, and I'll be matching what she's done to our definition of the manipulation of life and death concepts.

Not only can she instantly kill Paper Mario in a game over (the one I'm proposing is 11-D), but she can also bring Luvbi back during the post-game, even though such a Nimbi never existed, and was merely a persona of the Pure Heart.

So, she has the power to both instantly kill a target and, on the contrary, make it immortal.

Now, she stands no chance against Super Dimentio--according to our page itself, in order to not be able to kill someone, they simply must have a stronger concept.

And what's a stronger concept than higher dimensionality? Merloo supports it, and Jaydes supports Merloo. Heck, the Pure Hearts support it, as they have infinite power when in comparison to normal characters. This is all very consistent--and, it provides great reasoning for why the Chaos Heart and Pure Hearts were needed. Everything just... adds up.

Finally, to finish why 11-D base Paper Mario characters is valid.

As we know, Paper Mario tanked The Void. Of course, that thing was consuming all eleven dimensions.

But, that's not all that's important here. Mainly, look at Paper Mario's condition after The Void.


As you can tell, Paper Mario has been blown back to Flipside--another world, and is temporarily unconscious.

Now, let's take a look at his condition after Dimentio blew him away--to the Underwhere.


And here, Dimentio has blown Paper Mario to the Underwhere--another world, and he is temporarily unconscious.

The similarities between said feats cannot be ignored--Dimentio clearly matched The Void's power, for what it's worth. All four of the heroes can do battle with Dimentio equally, thus, they all scale to The Void; this is why they're High 1-C in base form. And with their hearts, they're Low 1-B.

Everything is supported and cleanly backed up. I would also say that, since The Void consumes all dimensions and that there's eleven, then the Paper Mario characters should get Immeasurable speed as well--for both their base forms and with their hearts.

Mario Party Characters
Everyone within Mario Party have some very impressive feats. Whether they're outliers or not, they should be made note of.

Attack Potency
Bowser, during the events of Mario Party 5, stated and showed he was going to rui , or, destroy the Dream Depot. In the Dream Depot, the dreams of the Mushroom Kingdom's denizens are turned into entire universes, and according to the guide booklet on page 6, dreams gather there everyday. Bowser also planned on destroying Future Dream; this dream in particular was stated by Misstar AND by Mario Party 5's guide booklet on page 28 to be an entire universe, meaning each dream is its own universe. This is what happens in the Dream Depot, and Bowser was going to destroy the entire thing.

Granted, I don't recall any statements about at what rate, but the point still stands. Everybody within this game scaled to Bowser, who was destroying entire universes.

Speed
They all fought the Millennium Star, who, in the opening, traveled from the center of the universe to Earth within seconds.

Summary
1. Wario and Black Jewel need to, at least, be upgraded to 4-A, if not Low 2-C. See the full thing to understand better.

2. The Paper Mario characters should be upgraded to High 1-C due to many, long dimension explanations. It's best to read the full thing--kinda hard for me to summarize. :/

3. Mario Party characters have feats that include MFTL+ speed (Millennium Star) and Universe level feats (Mario Party 5). If these are outliers, they should at least be mentioned within footnotes.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

• Wario: Unless I'm forgetting something, there is nothing whatsoever that says space-time is erased when Wario defeats Black Jewel, and likewise, it is only implied to have warped the entire planet. Even arguing for its highest end, nothing suggests the jewel altered the entire universe, especially after being explained as a planetay threat in the story.

• Super Paper Mario: This is so little to go on that it's basically nothing at all. Many mentions of dimensions in SPM refer to spatial dimensions, but the extent to which this is used in game is Paper Mario switching between 2-D movement and 3-D movement. That's about it. As for there being an object called "String-Theory Soup" in Wario: Master of Disguise, this is entirely meaningless unless it is shown to actually have some sort of notable effect on reality. But it doesn't, as it's just a fun name for an item that only exists to be a collectible. In a case like this, we would need something more substantial. I'll use Problem Sleuth as an example, in which this character tears apart the universe, revealing the cosmic strings beneath while the comic also mentions superstring theory. Judging by this, we can say the verse almost certainly runs on this mechanic. We cannot say a verse uses modern string theory in its entirety due to a throwaway item name and just that.

• Mario Party: Bowser going around ruining dreams refers to him entering good dreams and making them bad. At no point is he doing anything remotely resembling universal destruction. As for the Millennium Star, it didn't exactly travel to Earth. It just fell there. Similar to Aku in his primal form. We don't go scaling this to everyone's reaction speeds.

 

[Metal875]

Wario: The space-time thing came from the fact that everything was reduced to a non-existential white realm in the picture, not so much as statements. Though, him reducing everything to a white realm, and it including stars in its background clearly shows that there's more to this feat than just planetary destruction.

Super Paper Mario: But why do we need showings of it? I could have sworn that, as long as there was a statement backing it up, it could be used.

I suppose if that doesn't work, then what about the concept things for the hearts? Those might not work since the infinite power statement would no longer back up a 2-A, but does that have some water to it?

Mario Party: It was stated that he was going to destroy them and replace them with his own. That's more than just altering them--he was also going to destroy them. And I don't understand why it wouldn't scale, as it had moved that fast. Is this because it was falling, so it, like, had no control, or something?

 

[Ryukama]

I agree with Azzy that we shouldn't base the entire cosmology of the whole series and upgrade it by several orders of infinity upon the name of a random collectable in an obscure handheld Wario game.

And I already adressed the "Infinite Pure Hearts" thing with you here.

 

[Metal875]

I agree with Azzy that we shouldn't base the entire cosmology of the verse and upgrade by several orders of infinity based upon the name of a random collectable in an obscure handheld Wario game.

And I already adressed the "Infinite Pure Hearts" thing with you here.

Yes, I know you addressed that. That is why I said in my response "Those might not work since the infinite power statement would no longer back up a 2-A." I trusted what you said about that--but I'm just confused on why. Like, I remember being told a long time ago that we just needed some sort of statement to back it up... Well, regardless, what about the other two?

I still believe those two to be valid.

 

[Ryukama]

I haven't played that Mario Party or Wario game. So I can't say for sure. I'm sorry.

But I still disagree with 2-A or Tier 1 Mario for the reasons I previously stated.

 

[Withersoul_235]

While I do consider High 1-C to be a far stretch, I agree with the Wario and Black Jewel upgrades.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Super Wario Wank.

Seriously, though, what the hell. These are far too speculatory, outlandish and nonsensical to be accepted. A random object with "String-theory" on the name doesn't proof 11-Dimensions, and voids are not assumed to destroy all existence unless otherwise proven. And there is no evidence that all space-time was warped on Wario's case, or that Bowser destroys universes, quite the contrary. You are simply taking quotes out of context. Also we cannot scale the star to the characters since it just fell. Also we don't use Mario Party for feats.

 

[Metal875]

I have a couple things, but... I simply see no point in continuing this.

Close it, terminate it, do whatever you'd like with it.

 

[Paleomario66]

Honestly, I don't really see a problem with any of these.

The White void should be an indication that the realm was destroyed, and at the very least, Black Jewel's reality warping should be at the level of 4-A.

Those are actually references to String Theory, and the void was directly stated to be able to destroy all existence in the Marioverse. The statement is already on Dimentio's profile.

I don't see why Mario Party feats shouldn't be included, as Mario doesn't really have an official canon. The Millenium flew through space all the way to Earth ("it fell", but this makes no sense, since there is no gravity in space), so I don't see why the speed doesn't scale.