Possible Ichigo and Aizen Ap & Dura Upgrade and possibly Yhwach's Dura

[Perilouss]

@Shadow

I see what you're saying, but to say that it might be a hax ability, wouldnt that be speculation, since I certainly don't recall yhwach having any hax abilities that would enable him to destroy 3 worlds.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

either way thats just a statment made by 1 character with no proof. Feats>>>>statements
Momoshiki from naruto was a threat to kaguya but both Kaguya and madara are above him in power, just because 1 character makes a statement doesnt mean its true

Bad comparison.


Nothing suggests that Momoshiki is weaker than those two.


Additionally, those two statements are very different.


One is just a statement and one is a statement made by observation.


Bleach characters can sense each others reiatsu and determine how strong they are. That's what Byakuya is doing. It's not just a simple statement, it is literally a rule in the verse.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

it could be, but i do think its most likely falls under his AP but that would be speculation as well

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

The more i think about it.. Ichigo and Aizen should be 5B ... likely higher..

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

@Shadow
I see what you're saying, but to say that it might be a hax ability, wouldnt that be speculation, since I certainly don't recall yhwach having any hax abilities that would enable him to destroy 3 worlds.

It's not hax. Jugram specifically states his power is what stops the destruction of the worlds and after his death, they used his reiatsu to stop the destruction of the worlds, double confirming it is his AP, not any ability he has.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

So, 7 characters need to be upgraded.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

only 2

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

well i think we need more input then, i disagree with the upgrade besides for ichigo and Aizen but we will see what others say

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

well i think we need more input then, i disagree with the upgrade besides for ichigo and Aizen but we will see what others say

Nah. 7. Yhwach, Ichigo, Aizen, Jugram, Uryu, Lille and Gerard and while we are at it, might as well discuss some other profiles too.

 

[PaChi2]

No Gerard upgrade, no Lille, and no Jugram (even less Uryu). Byakuya didnt meet Yhwach, so its impossible for him to know how strong Post-Soul King Yhwach would be. Unreliable.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

That Ichigo and Aizen matter has been discussed before.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

No Gerard upgrade, no Lille, and no Jugram (even less Uryu). Byakuya didnt meet Yhwach, so its impossible for him to know how strong Post-Soul King Yhwach would be. Unreliable.

Just because he didn't meet him, doesn't mean he can't sense and make comparisons with his reiatsu. Your point is null.

 

[AppleLord]

That phrase is a mistranslation. Byakuya says this:

"Byakuya: Look at that reiatsu. // He is already... // ...facing Juchabach in battle."

In the Viz released.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

That phrase is a mistranslation. Byakuya says this:
"Byakuya: Look at that reiatsu. // He is already... // ...facing Juchabach in battle."

In the Viz released.

Link to chapter.

 

[M11UTD]

I agree that Ichigo should be upgraded since Soul King Yhwach needed the Almighty to put him down, but Barro and Gerard ?.... nah

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

^

 

[Perilouss]

I also agree that ichigo and aizen should be upgraded partly because of the above reasoning but also partly because yhwach should have planet level dura. Gerrard and barro do seem like a stretch to say the least, because having the better reiatsu doesn't necessarily mean you have better AP, for example the Espada were ranked based on reiatsu but ulquiorra had higher ap than some that were ranked above him

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I'm not sure but didn't Yhwach need the Almighty for Merged Hollowified Bankai Ichigo and not True Bankai Ichigo? I mean, after he broke his Bankai, he was casually beating him and he casually punched a hole through Aizen's torso taking off his arm in the process.

 

[Amlad22]

He only relied solely on the almighty after Ichigo activated Bankai. Which means he didn't consider his own raw power good enough to beat Ichigo, or he thought he could lose. There's no way someone who is above planet level would be scared of a moon level character

 

[PaChi2]

Just because he didn't meet him, doesn't mean he can't sense and make comparisons with his reiatsu. Your point is null.

So now Byakuya can meassure the reiatsu of a trascendental being (Absorbed the Soul King and such). Not buying it.

 

[AppleLord]

That phrase is a mistranslation. Byakuya says this:
"Byakuya: Look at that reiatsu. // He is already... // ...facing Juchabach in battle."

In the Viz released.

Link to chapter.

I can't give you the link since is within the Shounen Jump policy not to upload or share digital manga scans . I tried it once on reddit, and it was taken down. But you can find the translation easily on cnet128.com (mangahelpers) or on King of lighting review of chapter 674, he compares the two translations and explains that specific part in his YouTube channel.

 

[King_Raita]

Just because he didn't meet him, doesn't mean he can't sense and make comparisons with his reiatsu. Your point is null.

So now Byakuya can meassure the reiatsu of a trascendental being (Absorbed the Soul King and such). Not buying it.
Ichigo wasn't a transcendental being at the time. And transcendentalism is simply a power up. Not a special lv. Ichigo only becomes a transcendental when he fuses with his own powers. Be it his Hollow Powers or his Shinigami powers, he then becomes that strong. And Byakuya was simply noting Ichigo's Reiatsu, not measuring Yhwach's.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

Honestly, the whole Transcendent thing was most likely forgotten by Kubo, so I don't see the point in bringing it up.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

I'm not sure but didn't Yhwach need the Almighty for Merged Hollowified Bankai Ichigo and not True Bankai Ichigo? I mean, after he broke his Bankai, he was casually beating him and he casually punched a hole through Aizen's torso taking off his arm in the process.

Yhwach needed the Almighty against Merged Hollow Form (True Shikai) Ichigo and was going all out at that point. Despite that, Ichigo could still match him with strength to spare. He only started getting smacked when his Bankai and Merged Hollow Form got broken.


Monster Yhwach>Merged Hollow Form (True Bankai)=Aizen>Merged Hollow Form (True Shikai)=True Bankai>All Sternritter absorbed Yhwach>Base Yhwach.


If you want more details, just read the bible I wrote.

.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

I also agree that ichigo and aizen should be upgraded partly because of the above reasoning but also partly because yhwach should have planet level dura. Gerrard and barro do seem like a stretch to say the least, because having the better reiatsu doesn't necessarily mean you have better AP, for example the Espada were ranked based on reiatsu but ulquiorra had higher ap than some that were ranked above him

Espada rankings were BS.

 

[Perilouss]

They were based on reiatsu, not power, that's why people dont understand why barragan was no.2 when he was stronger than stark, its cause stark had better reiatsu.

Regardless, level of reiatsu isn't really an indicator for what ap a character has.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

Baraggan's power is hax. The Espada rankings are BS anyways and higher reiatsu means higher AP and durability, period.

 

[Perilouss]

And so what if its hax lmao? Barragan would wreck stark regardless.

You keep saying the espada rankings are BS but with no real explanation.

Show me scans of it implying anywhere that higher reiatsu = higher ap and durability, because it seems like you made that one up to me.

 

[Joseph619]

Baraggan's power is hax. The Espada rankings are BS anyways and higher reiatsu means higher AP and durability, period.

Espada ranking is not official definition that higher rank = higher AP. Barragan has better hax and Ulquiorra has better DC feat than Stark. Yammy is 0 and what has he done?

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

And so what if its hax lmao? Barragan would wreck stark regardless.
You keep saying the espada rankings are BS but with no real explanation.

Show me scans of it implying anywhere that higher reiatsu = higher ap and durability, because it seems like you made that one up to me.

Barragan beating Starrk has nothing to do with the point.

They are bullshit. Yammy is 0 but he got offscreened by Kenpachi and Byakuya who just had fights.

Ulquiorra is number 4 but he's clearly above Yammy who is supposedly number 0.

It just gets real confusing.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JGlY_Frhn...AmYeAuaNSsEjo7VcQgZ6vQCHM/s16000/0108-021.png http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-dgQHYPBMW...3UFrHBYtTGoZmvhxAMvvQwCHM/s16000/0108-022.png

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

Baraggan's power is hax. The Espada rankings are BS anyways and higher reiatsu means higher AP and durability, period.

Espada ranking is not official definition that higher rank = higher AP. Barragan has better hax and Ulquiorra has better DC feat than Stark. Yammy is 0 and what has he done?

That is why the ranking are BS.

 

[Perilouss]

@Piercer

This where you don't understand. The rankings are based PURELY off who has the strongest reiatsu. Yammy was 0 because he had the highest reiatsu. Yes he may have gotten offscreened, but thats where it's got to do with his overall fighting power, which isn't the best in the espada, whereas he had the highest reiatsu. Sure Ulquiorra may be above yammy in terms of fighting overall, but yammy had higher reiatsu hence he was 0 and ulquiorra was 4.

The rankings are not BS because they serve as an indicator of level of reiatsu, NOT fighting power, which is what you're failing to understand.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Perilous

I think you're getting reiatsu and reiryoku mixed up. The Espada ranks relate to reiryoku and not their reiatsu.

 

[Piercer_of_Heaven]

@Piercer
This where you don't understand. The rankings are based PURELY off who has the strongest reiatsu. Yammy was 0 because he had the highest reiatsu. Yes he may have gotten offscreened, but thats where it's got to do with his overall fighting power, which isn't the best in the espada, whereas he had the highest reiatsu. Sure Ulquiorra may be above yammy in terms of fighting overall, but yammy had higher reiatsu hence he was 0 and ulquiorra was 4.

The rankings are not BS because they serve as an indicator of level of reiatsu, NOT fighting power, which is what you're failing to understand.

You're the one who doesn't understand.

The higher your reiatsu, the more powerful you are. That's an established concept in the Bleachverse.

By your logic, a Lieutenant could have more reiatsu than a captain, which is clearly not the case, considering Lieutenants piss themselves when a Captain exerts his/her reiatsu.

How do you think Bleach characters gauge each others strength? It's through reiatsu.

I have no idea what you mean by "fighting power".

Ulquiorra is clearly above Yammy, that's why Ulquiorra is able to boss him around. Which means he has more reiatsu and is more powerful. Yet he's rated 4. Although, you could use the excuse that Aizen didn't know about his Second Release.

Then compare Yammy to the top 3, he's clearly weaker than them.

That's why the Espada ranking are BS.

These guys are all above Espada 0, meaning they have much more reiatsu, yet they are ranked based on reiatsu?

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuulllll─║lllsssssssshhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttttttt.

 

[Amlad22]

Just because someone has more reaitsu than another person doesn't mean they are stronger. Yammy may have more reaitsu than Starrk but he wouldn't beat him. Starrk still wins in every other category. Reaitsu is like a power level, it's a way to get a rough estimate of how much raw power someone has

 

[Perilouss]

@Piercer

Yes, but it's not the be all end all. A lieutenant could have more reiatsu than a captain lmao, poor example. I'm pretty sure renji has more reiatsu than isane or rojuro.

By fighting power I mean everything that can benefit one in a fight as a whole, i.e. speed, ap, hax, dura etc. Again, ulquiorra being superior to yammy in fighting power but not in reiatsu further proves that it's a ranking based on reiatsu not power. By your logic, a character with more reiatsu can never lose to someone with less reiatsu even if the character with less reiatsu is superior in all other stats. That's what I call bullshit lmao.

It has been stated that the espada rankings are based on reiatsu, not power, you can't argue with the manga's canon lol, I'd take the authors words against your fan beliefs every day of the week.

 

[AppleLord]

Just because someone has more reaitsu than another person doesn't mean they are stronger.

Is that right. Didn't Kenpachi and Aizen told the opposite of this.

 

[PaChi2]

"A battle between shinigami is a battle of Reiatsu"

Aizen rule n1.

 

[PaChi2]

Ichigo wasn't a transcendental being at the time. And transcendentalism is simply a power up. Not a special lv. Ichigo only becomes a transcendental when he fuses with his own powers. Be it his Hollow Powers or his Shinigami powers, he then becomes that strong. And Byakuya was simply noting Ichigo's Reiatsu, not measuring Yhwach's.

He used a quote of Byakuya comparing Gerard to Yhwach. Which seems to be mistranslated anyway. And yes, it is a special power, otherwise "I couldnt feel anything from Aizen's reiatsu" or "You traded your reiatsu for raw physical power" (which isnt but Aizen's misinterpretation of what Ichigo did) or "I need to lower my reiatsu so that others can feel it" (Lowering means that it is different from normal reiatsu, otheerwise it'd be pointless because they'd sense it anyway) or "Dont tell me you reached a higher evolution!", would all be meaningless.

 

[Perilouss]

This is getting off topic. The only characters that are being discussed about upgrading is ichigo, aizen and yhwach