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Ok. Cos he really need a lot of info!Gerdkinerf said:
Mechagodzilla (Heisei)
like his 2 forms normal and Super
Attack Potency
Durability
Speed
and more..
-
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Possible Heisei Godzilla Downgrade?
- Thread starter ConsumingFire
- Start date
Mechagodzilla (Heisei)
like his 2 forms normal and Super
Attack Potency
Durability
Speed
and more..
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We're aware, I'm just trying to go for a safe lowballed range to account for the possibility of the meteor only causing a mass-extinction event. Hence "At least Large Country level to Multi-Continent level, possibly Planet level", it covers every range and possibility of the meteor's potential severity.
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I don't believe it should because Destoroyah's micro-oxygen beams displayed different properties from the genuine Oxygen Destroyer and didn't dissolve Godzilla Jr.Gallavant said:
Either the beams are heavily toned-down versions of the Oxygen Destroyer, or the nuclear reaction to nuclear bomb analogy holds and we aren't guaranteed that the micro-oxygen beams fully scale to the Oxygen Destroyer (evidenced by Godzilla Jr. not immediately dying from two micro-oxygen beams from Final Form Destoroyah despite supposedly having enough power to kill a fully grown Godzilla).
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They didn't dissolve Jr. or Godzilla bevause they are simply that tough.
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Yeah Mostly of the calculation group members accepted the calc isn't it?Gallavant said:
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I don't recall the micro-oxygen beams from the juvenile Destoroyahs dissolving the human soldiers, either.Skeleturtle said:
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The smallest ones. They're also killable by the military without much effort, hence why only the Aggregate and above were stated to have oxygen destroyer levels of micro-oxygen, by the most knowledgable character in the movie. Its attacks are beyond just being mere micro-oxygenZillaJrKaijuKing said:
"379
01:02:07,060 --> 01:02:10,856
I know micro-oxygen does not have that kind of power
"
Micro-oxygen amount (or density, depending on the translation) was said and shown to increase "Immeasurably" between forms.
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From a simple KE equation, stopping Ceres and its debris at a range close to Earthwould be Moon level (36.57 exatons at its average velocity)Gerdkinerf said:
Just throwing that out here
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Nice information. This means a little bigger Meteor would be a even higher lvel.Gallavant said:
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Gallavant said:
Then it doesn't make logical sense. Two micro-oxygen beams shouldn't have had any trouble completely disintegrating a smaller version of what the original Oxygen Destroyer disintegrated since less mass should mean there's less oxygen to dissolve going by the calculation.
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As I've said before, Godzilla 1954 isn't even known to be a Godzillasaurus like the Heisei familyZillaJrKaijuKing said:
And by the same logic no superhuman character should maintain form on the Sun because its temperature is beyond H2O's, carbohydrates, proteins etc or their composition's boiling point.
They're called feats for a reason. They don't make sense in this aspect.
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Gallavant said:
Well, I just re-watched the scene with the juvenile Destoroyahs and their micro-oxygen beams didn't fully disintegrate the human soldiers even though the micro-Destoroyahs disintegrated tanks full of fish, so it's not just that the juveniles were weaker than the Aggregates. There's still an inconsistency between the behavior of the micro-oxygen beams and the Oxygen Destroyer.
Gallavant said:
I actually did respond to that comment. It doesn't make sense to claim that the Oxygen Destroyer would have trouble killing creatures of different species when it never had trouble doing so before.
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TBH, Moon level seems oddly specific given that it's above lifewiping yet below planet busting. And lifewiping and planet busting are the only two real options one can interpret from the Cosmos' statement.Gallavant said:
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- Thread starter
- #135
Hmm... That actually might work since we don't know the asteroid's true velocity or size, and since the Earth is supposed to be alive in the films (it created Battra after all) then Low Moon level to Moon level should be enough to deal a death blow to the Earth while leaving its molten "carcass" relatively intact. Just my thoughts.Gerdkinerf said:
EDIT: However, the impactor is specifically stated in the films to be a "meteor", and meteors are anything from meteorites, comets, or asteroids rather than dwarf planets like Ceres. This can't be overlooked.
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It wouldn't have been referred to as a dwarf planet at the time of the film's release thoughConsumingFire said:
At first Ceres was called a planet, but as more asteroid belt members were discovered, Ceres was demoted to asteroid. Its status changed again in 2006 when it was promoted to dwarf planet
"In 1802, additional objects were also found to be orbiting in the same area. Sir William Herschel labeled these objects as asteroids, so in 1802 Ceres became known as an asteroid, not a planet. Ceres was the largest known asteroid in the asteroid belt until 2006."
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"killing" the physical Earth itself without mass-scatter:
Volume of Earth: 1.08321 x 10^12 cubic km = 1.08321 × 1027cubic centimeters
Rock fragmentation: 8 joules/cc
Rock violent fragmentation: 120 joules/cc
Rock pulverization: 214.35 joules/cc
8.66568e+27 - 1.299852e+29 - 2.3218606e+29 joules
2.07 Exatons - 31 Exatons - 55.49 Exatons
Multi Continent level - Moon level
Considering the result of the calc pertaining to Godzilla Junior it seems like a reasonable enough range to narrow it down to
Volume of Earth: 1.08321 x 10^12 cubic km = 1.08321 × 1027cubic centimeters
Rock fragmentation: 8 joules/cc
Rock violent fragmentation: 120 joules/cc
Rock pulverization: 214.35 joules/cc
8.66568e+27 - 1.299852e+29 - 2.3218606e+29 joules
2.07 Exatons - 31 Exatons - 55.49 Exatons
Multi Continent level - Moon level
Considering the result of the calc pertaining to Godzilla Junior it seems like a reasonable enough range to narrow it down to
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Yeah looks similar comparing to the Oxygen Destroyer Calc.Gallavant said:
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- Thread starter
- #140
Looks reasonable enough to me. However, wasn't Destoroyah's Micro-Oxygen Spray calced at Multi-Continent level? It might be safer to go for a low end value if that's the case since I can't see Battra being at his level.Gallavant said:
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Gallavant said:
There's too much going against the assumption that the micro-oxygen beams are identical to the oxygen destroyer to directly scale the DC of the Oxygen Destoyer to Destoroyah. Feats > character statements in the face of contradiction AFAIK.
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The lower forms' have nothing to do with Aggregate Destoroyah who's energy density was stated different as I've posted. Out of what you've said it really comes down to AOE concentration and a character's immunity to "hax", both of which are considered acceptable on this site.ZillaJrKaijuKing said:
Try to find something else
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Gallavant said:
The juvenile Destoroyahs aren't as irrelevant as you claim. The higher forms' micro-oxygen beams displayed the same characteristics as that of the juvenile Destoroyahs'. In other words, they displayed the "metal-boring" properties that micro-oxygen was stated to have in what you once described as micro-oxygen's less potent form rather than the complete disintegration properties of the Oxygen Destroyer/micro-Destoroyahs.
Since the juvenile Destoroyahs definitely should have had more than enough micro-oxygen in them to dissolve humans completely based on the fact that the micro-Destoroyahs dissolved tanks full of fish (each form is "immeasurably" more powerful than the previous, and even if the juveniles were for some reason not stronger than the micros, the inconsistency would still exist based solely on the micros' power), there's no reason to think the juveniles' micro-oxygen beams shouldn't have completely dissolved the human soldiers if the beams were truly identical to the Oxygen Destroyer.
That confirms that the micro-oxygen beams of the forms above the micro-Destoroyahs are different in behavior from the Oxygen Destroyer. There is an inconsistency between your interpretation of character statements and what is seen in practice, and this same inconsistency applies to the higher forms of Destoroyah unless there's an actual feat to prove otherwise. It's not just AoE. It's fundamentally different behavior.
Therefore, the nuclear reaction to nuclear bomb analogy that was thrown around before still applies to Destoroyah's attacks. Unless we see one of Destoroyah's attacks dissolve all of the oxygen in Tokyo bay, there is no guarantee that the full potency of the Oxygen Destroyer applies to each and every single one of Destoroyah's attacks.
All we really know from the statement that "micro-oxygen doesn't have this kind of power" is that it takes Oxygen Destroyer-levels of power to create Destoroyah's higher forms, not that each and every attack is a full Oxygen Destroyer.
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- Thread starter
- #145
@ZillaJrKaijuKing: You've got a point. Since the fish were dissolved, then the humans should have been too. Yes, the fish were in water, but then the human body is over 60% water, most of it intracellular.
That and "immeasurably" shouldn't be taken out of context here. It was simply too much for the human scanners to measure, and that's all.
That and "immeasurably" shouldn't be taken out of context here. It was simply too much for the human scanners to measure, and that's all.
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Speaking of Destoroyah, I just noticed that Destoroyah's lifting strength is M+ via scaling from SpaceGodzilla and that his flight speed is Massively Hypersonic to Relativistic+ via scaling from Mothra, SpaceGodzilla, and MOGUERA. Lifting strength and flight speed don't automatically scale from characters that didn't show up in his movie when those stats don't have a clear relationship. His lifting strength could still be M+ by scaling from Godzilla if Destoroyah matched Godzilla's strength, but lifting strength and flight speed can't be scaled from the other characters since there's no clear relationship between those stats. (Also, the split in the Earth during Godzilla and Battra Larva's battle was caused by volcanic activity, not Godzilla slamming Battra to the ground.)
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I suppose we can't assume every form change is immeasurable or the same then, just the one said to be.
And no one said Micro-Destoroyah or Juvenile had Oxygen Destroyer amounts, nor do we know how many micro-Destoroyahs there were in the water, one of them just happened to be captured as a few pixels while it was slowly disintigrating a fish on careful analysis of video recordings. They vary in size and some of them might not have even been visible.
And no one said Micro-Destoroyah or Juvenile had Oxygen Destroyer amounts, nor do we know how many micro-Destoroyahs there were in the water, one of them just happened to be captured as a few pixels while it was slowly disintigrating a fish on careful analysis of video recordings. They vary in size and some of them might not have even been visible.
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Thats right actually but..ZillaJrKaijuKing said:
"252ZillaJrKaijuKing said:
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:30,031
What's happening under the water?
253
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,351
Did the creature cause the
volcanic eruption?
254
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,515
lt's between the Philippine
plate and the Eurasian plate.
255
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:19,796
They're gone! 256
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,238
Battra? Godzilla? 257
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:25,996
They've vanished from our scanners! 258
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,031
They went into the undersea volcano? 259
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,869
How can Godzilla
withstand the magma?
Zilla Jr's beam fight was clearly just the weather conveniently changing.
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"Did the creature cause the 'volcanic eruption?"
I suppose that part throws a wrench in my claim. I honestly did think the splitting of the ground was caused by a volcanic eruption. I'd have to watch the scene again. I must have missed that quote.
I find it funny how withstanding magma (1600 degrees C tops) was played off as something impressive when melting diamond (Godzilla vs. Biollante) takes around 4400 degrees C.
I suppose that part throws a wrench in my claim. I honestly did think the splitting of the ground was caused by a volcanic eruption. I'd have to watch the scene again. I must have missed that quote.
I find it funny how withstanding magma (1600 degrees C tops) was played off as something impressive when melting diamond (Godzilla vs. Biollante) takes around 4400 degrees C.
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- Thread starter
- #150
It's just Toho being lazy and playing on perceived viewer ignorance as most viewers associate magma with being "really hot" and diamond with being "really hard", and likely wouldn't have known the melting point of the latter.ZillaJrKaijuKing said:
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And there's no guarentee that Zilla Jr or Queen Bee were in the eruption. We don't see he was. No one said he did either. Nothing was really restricting him to remain there, like in the case of Manda being frozen to the sea floor when the reactors went off.
Here we at least have a scientist character who studied the Oxygen Destroyer to the point that he could potentially make one stating Aggregate Destoroyah's beam attacks have Oxygen Destroyer power.
Here we at least have a scientist character who studied the Oxygen Destroyer to the point that he could potentially make one stating Aggregate Destoroyah's beam attacks have Oxygen Destroyer power.
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Its (apparently) mass moving at high velocity, so of course it can bore through things. How efficient is it at boring? That could depend on the velocity, material, probably aerodynamics and some other factors.
Neither "regular" micro-oxygen or the Oxygen Destroyer's were used as high velocity projectiles, we've only seen them stationary until Destoroyah. The Oxygen Destroyer was just a release of some slow moving substance into the water. The statement about micro-oxygen boring through any metal was hypothetically if it was used as a weapo, as in one that countries would be using against each other (hence why the person asked about the "darker" side of micro-oxygen)
The only thing differenciating the forms is the amount and density of micro-oxygen. A super bunker buster nuclear bomb missile that is propelled at 10 kilometers per second and pierces through a mountain is still a nuclear bomb. A ray gun stated to have nuclear bomb level energy that pierces through 100 layers of one of the harder metals on Earth still has nuclear bomb level energy, but it doesn't nescessarily mean that a regular nuclear bomb would have to do the same.
Neither "regular" micro-oxygen or the Oxygen Destroyer's were used as high velocity projectiles, we've only seen them stationary until Destoroyah. The Oxygen Destroyer was just a release of some slow moving substance into the water. The statement about micro-oxygen boring through any metal was hypothetically if it was used as a weapo, as in one that countries would be using against each other (hence why the person asked about the "darker" side of micro-oxygen)
The only thing differenciating the forms is the amount and density of micro-oxygen. A super bunker buster nuclear bomb missile that is propelled at 10 kilometers per second and pierces through a mountain is still a nuclear bomb. A ray gun stated to have nuclear bomb level energy that pierces through 100 layers of one of the harder metals on Earth still has nuclear bomb level energy, but it doesn't nescessarily mean that a regular nuclear bomb would have to do the same.
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Depends on the accuracy of the Translation honestly. The blu ray release that neglected to mention this line was probably a dubtitle hybridZillaJrKaijuKing said:
compare the two
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA5ucqLrpFE
"292
00:42:13,173 --> 00:42:14,799
What's happening under there, captain? 293
00:42:15,842 --> 00:42:18,469
The temperature at depths of 7,000
meters has reached to twenty... 294
00:42:18,470 --> 00:42:20,388
It looks like a large
volcanic eruption. 295
00:42:20,722 --> 00:42:22,381
Now it's thirty degrees.
Still increasing. 296
00:42:22,382 --> 00:42:24,884
It's the border of the Eurasia
Plate and the Philippine Plate. 297
00:43:05,959 --> 00:43:07,001
They're gone. 298
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,804
Both Battra... And Godzilla? 299
00:43:11,147 --> 00:43:13,066
No more signs of life, sir. 300
00:43:13,416 --> 00:43:15,335
Then the volcano must
have gotten them both. 301
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,563
Godzilla drowned in the magma?"
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Best to go with the mid end.Gerdkinerf said:
- 15,407
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Looks good to me.
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Looks good to me too. Also I go with the Mid End Cos is the Average asteroid orbital velocity.Gerdkinerf said:
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That was assuming a meteor 3/5 the size of Earth in order to destroy the planet. There's still the low end of life-wiping.Kiryu-MG3 said:
