Possible Heisei Godzilla Downgrade?

[Gerdkinerf]

Very interesting.

Should Algaro's Multi-Continent level yield of 1.602176487E+28 joules / 3.82929371 exatons of TNT equivalent for lifewiping be taken into account here with the meteor or no?

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

I think it's reasonable, given that that they shouldn't be too far behind the post-power boost monsters. Would a "at least Continent level, possibly Continent level+ to Multi-Continent" rating be better?

To be fair, Burning Godzilla's meltdown would have possibly destroyed the entire planet itself and not just the core.

Perhaps "At least Moon level, possibly Planet level" would be best?

Personally, I would say "Unknown, possibly Continent Level" for the pre-power boost Heisei monsters due to the uncertainty. "At least" implies a low-end cap, and there isn't enough to say Continent Level is their low-end.

Going by the meltdown calc, I'd say "Moon to Planet Level" for the meltdown explosion.

 

[ConsumingFire]

Very interesting.

Should Algaro's Multi-Continent level yield of 1.602176487E+28 joules / 3.82929371 exatons of TNT equivalent for lifewiping be taken into account here with the meteor or no?

I would include it since the wording in the movie itself can only be interpreted in one of two ways: either life-wiping or planetary destruction. We're never explicitly told the size of the asteroid in question but the asteroid would have to have been far larger than any real life asteroid were it to be a life-wiper, and life-wiping is to me a more reasonable interpretation of what the Shobijin said than Earth actually exploding.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

Very interesting.

Should Algaro's Multi-Continent level yield of 1.602176487E+28 joules / 3.82929371 exatons of TNT equivalent for lifewiping be taken into account here with the meteor or no?

I would include it since the wording in the movie itself can only be interpreted in one of two ways: either life-wiping or planetary destruction. We're never explicitly told the size of the asteroid in question but the asteroid would have to have been far larger than any real life asteroid were it to be a life-wiper, and life-wiping is to me a more reasonable interpretation of what the Shobijin said than Earth actually exploding.

Not even in the Past Planet Earth was destroyed for being shocked by a Mars size object. the result was the formation of the Moon.

[[1]]

Sooo Acording to that a meteorite have to be at least 4/5 times size of Earth ( a Venus size meteorite ) and above to Blow Up the whole Planet.

 

[ConsumingFire]

Not even in the Past Planet Earth was destroyed for being shocked by a Mars size object. the result was the formation of the Moon.

[[1]]

Sooo Acording to that a meteorite have to be at least 4/5 times size of Earth ( a Venus size meteorite ) and above to Blow Up the whole Planet.

Right?

This is precisely why I'm in favor of Battra's asteroid being life-wiping because to destroy Earth you'd have to throw another planet of roughly equal size at it rather than an asteroid. Earth is a tough nut to crack, to say the least.

EDIT: I'm also going to backtrack on my initial proposal of reducing Heisei Godzilla to Town level since it makes more sense to scale from Battra's asteroid and to factor in Godzilla's survival of Birth Island's explosion as a benchmark for his durability level.

 

[Gallavant]

1.602176487E+28 joules = 3.82929371 exatons of TNT equivalent or Multi-Continent level

Credits goes to Gallavant.

New calc pertaining to micro-oxygen, Destoroyah's source of power:

http://www.t5forums.com/forum/the-v...lcs/185162-godzilla-1954-the-oxygen-destroyer

This is in the coments below with the correction of the calc.

As a result was obtained 613 Petatons minimum for a "small piece" of micro-oxygen to atomically asphixiate the entirety of Tokyo Bay (Multi Continent level+)

And this micro-oxygen spitting kaiju right here is well.. Destroyah.

This was also recently edited and reposted on VSBattles

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Gallavant/Godzilla_-_The_Oxygen_Destroyer?cb=2525

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

So acording to this are you Ok with change Heisei Godzilla profile to Town Level?? cos I'm not he is multiple times stronger than only town level.

 

[Promestein]

Please refrain from quoting massive walls of text. Thanks.

 

[ConsumingFire]

So acording to this are you Ok with change Heisei Godzilla profile to Town Level?? cos I'm not he is multiple times stronger than only town level.

No I meant that I'm okay with scaling Heisei Godzilla's power from Battra's asteroid.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

So acording to this are you Ok with change Heisei Godzilla profile to Town Level?? cos I'm not he is multiple times stronger than only town level.

No I meant that I'm okay with scaling Heisei Godzilla's power from Battra's asteroid.

My bad ......damn I read it wrong :/

I had read you want to reduce Godzilla Heisei to Town Level.

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

I have a quick question about SpaceGodzilla having relativistic+ reaction speed in combat, which seems to come from battles with MOGUERA. Wouldn't that imply that the humans piloting MOGUERA's various forms throughout the movie have relativistic+ reaction speed for tagging him, too?

 

[ConsumingFire]

I have a quick question about SpaceGodzilla having relativistic+ reaction speed in combat, which seems to come from battles with MOGUERA. Wouldn't that imply that the humans piloting MOGUERA's various forms throughout the movie have relativistic+ reaction speed for tagging him, too?

Technically it should, yes, although that's only in outer space.

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

I thought MOGUERA's official top speed in space was Mach 44 according to Toho Kingdom, and Wikizilla seems to support this, but neither of them list sources. I think SpaceGodzilla was moving at hypersonic+ speeds at most when fighting MOGUERA. Something about ordinary humans having relativistic reaction speed doesn't sit right with me.

 

[ConsumingFire]

I thought MOGUERA's official top speed in space was Mach 44 according to Toho Kingdom, and Wikizilla seems to support this, but neither of them list sources. I think SpaceGodzilla was moving at hypersonic+ speeds at most when fighting MOGUERA. Something about ordinary humans having relativistic reaction speed doesn't sit right with me.

It doesn't sit well with me either as human reactions are clearly nowhere near that fast. On that same note, though, where is VBW gauging Relativistic+ speed from? I certainly hope it's not the black hole. Mach 44 in a vaccum sounds far more believable to be honest.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

This is precisely why I'm in favor of Battra's asteroid being life-wiping because to destroy Earth you'd have to throw another planet of roughly equal size at it rather than an asteroid. Earth is a tough nut to crack, to say the least.

EDIT: I'm also going to backtrack on my initial proposal of reducing Heisei Godzilla to Town level since it makes more sense to scale from Battra's asteroid and to factor in Godzilla's survival of Birth Island's explosion as a benchmark for his durability level.

Soo is someone going to edit the profiles for the Heisei Kaijus??

 

[Skeleturtle]

Just for the record: the size of a meteor is not the only thing that plays in it's dc. It's also the speed.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

Just for the record: the size of a meteor is not the only thing that plays in it's dc. It's also the speed.

Yeah good point. I still believe that this meteor is at least Multi-Continent level if not Planet Buster.

in the oyher side average meteor velocity is 25-30 km per second

[[1]]

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

Would this calc make a difference?

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?bt=187038

 

[ConsumingFire]

Would this calc make a difference?

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?bt=187038

Speed matches up well enough with what I came up with here, but if this calc is used then it would be best in my opinion to use a low end estimate since the high end is above the calculated power output of Burning Godzilla's meltdow (and by the same user, no less). Now we know that Godzilla is stronger than Battra and because Godzilla melted due to excess nuclear energy to begin with he logically shouldn't be able to produce that level of power in his base state, which is why I believe assuming a low end estimate for the asteroid's power in the calc provided makes the most sense.

 

[ConsumingFire]

Soo is someone going to edit the profiles for the Heisei Kaijus??

As long as the admins are okay with it, then I will. For right now I'll edit just one of them. If they're not okay with it, then they'll change it back.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Would this calc make a difference?

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?bt=187038

Speed matches up well enough with what I came up with here, but if this calc is used then it would be best in my opinion to use a low end estimate since the high end is above the calculated power output of Burning Godzilla's meltdow (and by the same user, no less). Now we know that Godzilla is stronger than Battra and because Godzilla melted due to excess nuclear energy to begin with he logically shouldn't be able to produce that level of power in his base state, which is why I believe assuming a low end estimate for the asteroid's power in the calc provided makes the most sense.

To be fair, that calc for the meltdown is outdated and inaccurate, I'd go by this more recent one by Gallavant:

Energy yield ranges from 5.619E+35 joules at the low-end to 1.092E+37 joules at the high-end.

5.619E+35 joules = 134.297323 yottatons of TNT equivalent

1.092E+37 joules = 2.60994264 ninatons of TNT equivalent

Both results are 5-A (Large Planet level), which is more consistent with the film's clear intent of Burning Godzilla's meltdown destroying the entire planet rather than merely destroying the core like the old calc's assumption.

Even the lowest-end result of Burning Godzilla's death, the explosion from the "Burning Hypothesis" has a yield of 2.85714E+26 joules or 682.872849 petatons of TNT equivalent, which is 6-A (Continent level+)

As for the meteor, I would go for a wide range of "at least High 6-B (Large Country level) to High 6-A (Multi-Continent level), possibly 5-B (Planet level)", given that the meteor Battra was going to destroy should be at least on par with the Chicxulub impact event, which most sources state released about 4.2E+23 joules or 100.382409 teratons of TNT equivalent, much higher then the NarutoForums yield of 1.37140625E+23 joules (32.777396 teratons of TNT equivalent).

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

Would destroying the meteor really require countering all of its momentum? I thought Gallavant or one of the mods once said it took more energy to stop something than to destroy it.

I'm on mobile right now, but the link doesn't seem to work for me. I'm curious as to how a calculation for destroying a planet the size of Earth got Large Planet Level energy. I think I've seen the calc before, but I don't remember it.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Well, to be fair, most planet busting feats in fiction with quantifiable time frames would actually be categorized as at least 5-A (Large Planet level) by default, if not likely High 5-A (Dwarf Star level) or even Low 4-C (Small Star level) due to the sheer speed the explosion would be moving at, such as with the Death Star's superlaser destroying Alderaan or when anime DBZ characters blow up planets .

Even moving the Earth at a mere 1/100th of it's diameter (127.562 km) per second would result in 4.8591393E+34 joules or 11.6136217 yottatons of TNT equivalent being released, which is enough energy to overcome the GBE of both Neptune and Uranus.

127.562 kilometers is just slightly larger than the 120 kilometer diameter of the first Death Star, which can be seen here in a size comparison with our Earth:

http://orig09.deviantart.net/cb19/f/2016/088/5/e/size_comparison_by_gerdkinerf-d9x0e7f.png

The Earth only needs to be moved at escape velocity (11.1865501 km/s or Mach 32.8735787) for it to destroyed, going by the GBE formula. This is equivalent to moving the planet at a (relatively) hilariously slow pace of only 1/1,140.31582th of it's diameter per second. This is, quite literally, proportionally slower than the average man moving at the body length of an ant per second.

So, yeah, most celestial explosions equivalent to the object's GBE in real life would be extremely slow and pretty boring to witness, nothing like the spectacular and cinematic events in the media.

And as for the link, try this and see if it works or not. If it doesn't, I apologize. I'd also try going on his user page and clicking on the blue button that says "Blog", the calculations should appear under that as '"'Godzilla - Meltdow".

 

[ConsumingFire]

@Gerdkinerf: Thanks. I wasn't aware of the updated calc so of course we can use it.

EDIT: 100.382409 teratons is just barely Large Country level.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

@Gerdkinerf: Thanks. I wasn't aware of the updated calc so of course we can use it.
EDIT: 100.382409 teratons is just barely Large Country level.

So is like the Chicxulub Impact?? which releases and energy equivalent to 100 teratons.

[[1]]

 

[Gerdkinerf]

I'd like to think that it'd at least be on par with the Chicxulub impact given that it's probably the inspiration behind most "killer asteroid destroys civilization and causes a mass-extinctio" scenarios and / or media. I can't think of any significantly less powerful asteroid impacts that had the same effects.

I think a range of High 6-B (Large Country level) to High 6-A (Multi-Continent level) sounds pretty reasonable for a mass-extinction causing, if not likely outright life-wiping asteroid. And of course there's even the slight possibility of it being 5-B (Planet level).

So, as I suggested before, I would go with a range of "at least High 6-B (Large Country level) to High 6-A (Multi-Continent level), possibly 5-B (Planet level)" for Heisei Godzilla II, Battra, Heisei Mothra, Heisei Mechagodzilla, Moguera, SpaceGodzilla, Burning Godzilla, and Destoroyah.

 

[Gallavant]

I thought MOGUERA's official top speed in space was Mach 44 according to Toho Kingdom, and Wikizilla seems to support this, but neither of them list sources. I think SpaceGodzilla was moving at hypersonic+ speeds at most when fighting MOGUERA. Something about ordinary humans having relativistic reaction speed doesn't sit right with me.

It doesn't sit well with me either as human reactions are clearly nowhere near that fast. On that same note, though, where is VBW gauging Relativistic+ speed from? I certainly hope it's not the black hole. Mach 44 in a vaccum sounds far more believable to be honest.

Mach 44 (15 km/s) would take 11966666 seconds to travel 1.2 AU (179,517,445 kilometers). Thats almost 140 days, several months for MOGUERA to reach and combat Space Godzilla in the asteroid belt, and almost 280 days when you add the time for them get back to Earth. Such a timeskip is impossible when both before and after, they're still trying to mind control Godzilla

Mach 44 is just contradicting secondary canon, wherever that number comes from.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

Mach 44 (15 km/s) would take 11966666 seconds to travel 1.2 AU (179,517,445 kilometers). Thats almost 140 days, several months for MOGUERA to reach and combat Space Godzilla in the asteroid belt, and almost 280 days when you add the time for them get back to Earth and such a timeskip is impossible when both before and after, they're still trying to mind control Godzilla

Mach 44 is just contradicting secondary canon, wherever that number comes from.

This sounds legit to me.

Mach 44 is a mistake cos at mach 44 MOGUERA would take several months to fight Space Godzilla in vacuum of space.

While in the movie it only takes few minutes to MOGUERA find and fight Space Godzilla.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Well, to be fair, it could be a time lapse and possibly not the filmmaker's literal intended timeframe. Same goes for Mothra's calculated speed feat of Mach 222.495456 (75.7129787 km/s).

Not trying to downplay feats or anything, but I do think that this possibility should be considered.

For Moguera, I would go for "At least Supersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic in Earth's atmosphere. At least High Hypersonic (Mach 44), likely Relativistic flight speed in space"

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Also, would it be fine if I changed Battra's attack potency to this?

"At least Large Country level to Multi-Continent level (Capable of destroying a meteor large and swift enough to at least cause a severe mass-extinction event and likely wipe out all life on Earth), possibly Planet level (The Cosmos considered the Earth itself to be a living being).

Keep in mind that complete and total life-wiping, not creating just a mass-extinction event, requires Multi-Continent level energy, which is why I'd go for a wide range in the first place to cover all the minimum and maximum possibilities of the asteroid impact's severity.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

Also, would it be fine if I changed Battra's attack potency to this?
"At least Large Country level to Multi-Continent level (Capable of destroying a meteor large and swift enough to at least cause a severe mass-extinction event and likely wipe out all life on Earth), possibly Planet level (The Cosmos considered the Earth itself to be a living being).

Keep in mind that complete and total life-wiping, not creating just a mass-extinction event, requires Multi-Continent level energy, which is why I'd go for a wide range in the first place to cover all the minimum and maximum possibilities of the asteroid impact's severity.

Agee it looks fine to me.

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

Large Country to Multi-Continent Level sounds good enough from what I can see.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

May I adjust the stats of Heisei Godzilla II, Destoroyah, Heisei King Ghidorah, Mecha-King Ghidorah, Heisei Mothra, and SpaceGodzilla as well to fit with Battra?

 

[XxFNAFCraft911xX]

I agree with them being at least that, yeah.

 

[XxFNAFCraft911xX]

Well, to be fair, it could be a time lapse and possibly not the filmmaker's literal intended timeframe. Same goes for Mothra's calculated speed feat of Mach 222.495456 (75.7129787 km/s).
Not trying to downplay feats or anything, but I do think that this possibility should be considered.

For Moguera, I would go for "At least Supersonic, possibly Massively Hypersonic in Earth's atmosphere. At least High Hypersonic (Mach 44), likely Relativistic flight speed in space"

I believe there's also other feats as well that are Massively Hypersonic.

But honestly, I think Mach 222 is legit.

And then the SG and MOGUERA thing would be amazingly impossible to happen in months as well.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Here's a quick calc I did for SpaceGodzilla's durability going his relativistic speed feat, going off of this:

Distance traveled by Moguera = 1 AU (Or 149,597,870,700 meters)

Time frame = 12 minutes, 34 seconds (Or 754 seconds)

149,597,870,700 / 754 = 198,405,664 meters per second (Or 66.1810058% the speed of light)

Flying form Spacegodzilla's mass = 720,000 metric tons (Or 720,000,000 kilograms)

Moguera's mass = 160,000 metric tons (Or 160,000,000 kilograms)

Inputting these figures into the relativistic kinetic energy calculator, we get:

Moguera's kinetic energy = 4.798E+24 joules or 1.14674952 petatons of TNT equivalent

SpaceGodzilla's kinetic energy = 2.159E+25 joules or 5.16013384 petatons of TNT equivalent

For comparison, the site's Attack Potency chart lists the maximum energy for Large Country level and/or minimum energy for Continent level at 5.565E+24 joules or 1.33006692 petatons of TNT equivalent.

I also found this calc which lists the figures even higher:

Mougera's kinetic energy = 1.05086558E+26 joules or 25.1162902 petatons of TNT equivalent

SpaceGodzilla's kinetic energy = 4.72889512E+26 joules or 113.023306 petatons of TNT equivalent

Keep in mind that neither was harmed by the collision, with, as KaiserWombat puts it "zero damage inflicted on the latter while the former only received minor trauma due to sensitive circuitry." Pretty casual stuff.

Fits well with the energy ouput of the meteor Battra was going to destroy, I'd say.

 

[ZillaJrKaijuKing]

That's surprisingly consistent with what's already been calc'ed. Of course, it has to assume no time lapse.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

May I adjust the stats of Heisei Godzilla II, Destoroyah, Heisei King Ghidorah, Mecha-King Ghidorah, Heisei Mothra, and SpaceGodzilla as well to fit with Battra?

and what about Super Mecha Godzilla/ Mecha Godzilla Heisei?? HIs Profile needs a lot of information as well.

 

[Gerdkinerf]

Oh right, I forgot about him.

Yeah, I'll update his stats as well.

 

[HYPERGODZILLA]

Here's a quick calc I did for SpaceGodzilla's durability going his relativistic speed feat, going off of this:
Distance traveled by Moguera = 1 AU (Or 149,597,870,700 meters)

Time frame = 12 minutes, 34 seconds (Or 754 seconds)

149,597,870,700 / 754 = 198,405,664 meters per second (Or 66.1810058% the speed of light)

Flying form Spacegodzilla's mass = 720,000 metric tons (Or 720,000,000 kilograms)

Moguera's mass = 160,000 metric tons (Or 160,000,000 kilograms)

Inputting these figures into the relativistic kinetic energy calculator, we get:

Moguera's kinetic energy = 4.798E+24 joules or 1.14674952 petatons of TNT equivalent

SpaceGodzilla's kinetic energy = 2.159E+25 joules or 5.16013384 petatons of TNT equivalent

For comparison, the site's Attack Potency chart lists the maximum energy for Large Country level and/or minimum energy for Continent level at 5.565E+24 joules or 1.33006692 petatons of TNT equivalent.

I also found this calc which lists the figures even higher:

Mougera's kinetic energy = 1.05086558E+26 joules or 25.1162902 petatons of TNT equivalent

SpaceGodzilla's kinetic energy = 4.72889512E+26 joules or 113.023306 petatons of TNT equivalent

Keep in mind that neither was harmed by the collision, with, as KaiserWombat puts it "zero damage inflicted on the latter while the former only received minor trauma due to sensitive circuitry." Pretty casual stuff.

Fits well with the energy ouput of the meteor Battra was going to destroy, I'd say.

Nice job!! This is really Consistent.