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Portgas D. Ace vs Natsu Dragneel

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JiroUchiha9 said:
Side note: Why is NAtsu, a fire user that can EAT fire and recover with it only being put against other fire users? I've seen him put against Ace, Sabo, Charizard, etc. Sad part is, using their physical skill and in charizard's case, non fire abilities, they all beat NAtsu with mid-diff at most.
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Because Natsu wankers think he is immune to fire and can't lose to fire users.
 
^^ It's a bit ridiculous imo. Every other fire user they put him against has enough physical skill to beat him, and the wide movepool of Charizard gives him plenty of hax/stat modification abilities to work with. I want to remain neutral on this wiki, but Natsu is always put in losing efforts all the time
 
JiroUchiha9 said:
^^ It's a bit ridiculous imo. Every other fire user they put him against has enough physical skill to beat him, and the wide movepool of Charizard gives him plenty of hax/stat modification abilities to work with. I want to remain neutral on this wiki, but Natsu is always put in losing efforts all the time
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physical yes they can, with using their fire alone likely no. like when do someone in here has ever say natsu can't be beaten by fire user physically?
 
^^ they haven't, but they seem to think that NAtsu's fire immunity and partial lightning powers make him some unstoppable force against every fire user in Tier 7, when the only Fire User in tier seven he can beat as far as I know is Greymon
 
JiroUchiha9 said:
^^ they haven't, but they seem to think that NAtsu's fire immunity and partial lightning powers make him some unstoppable force against every fire user in Tier 7, when the only Fire User in tier seven he can beat as far as I know is Greymo
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well I pretty sure yamamoto can beat him, since I certain he is at least 7-A in his shikai(i refuse to believe him to be 7-B when bazz-b is 7-A)
 
^^ Yamamoto blitzes him because Yamamoto is Mhs-MHS+ iirc, giving him a HUGE speed advantage, and even if the speed is equal, Yaqmamoto's Bankai and HUGE combat experience advantage allow him to beat Natsu because his Zanpakuto cuts things out of existence and Shunpo + Dokotsu = GG because Natsu likely doesn't have the durability to tank an attack that caused a Resurrection Arrancar to instantly crack apart and disinigrate imo
 
JiroUchiha9 said:
^^ Yamamoto blitzes him because Yamamoto is Mhs-MHS+ iirc, giving him a HUGE speed advantage, and even if the speed is equal, Yaqmamoto's Bankai and HUGE combat experience advantage allow him to beat Natsu because his Zanpakuto cuts things out of existence and Shunpo + Dokotsu = GG because Natsu likely doesn't have the durability to tank an attack that caused a Resurrection Arrancar to instantly crack apart and disinigrate imo
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Nah only using his shikai, I mean yamamoto beat Yhwach 1000 years ago with his bankai, using his bankai to natsu is way too overkill.
 
the score is surprinsgly 5 Natsu - 4 Ace it seems, which is actually very, very surprising. Although some people didn't elaborate on their opinion reasonably on who'd win, so If i don't count them, it'd be 3 Natsu - 4 Ace, since 'Natsu would eat Ace/ lol fire immunity' is not a good reason IMO
 
^why not? it is a ability which can be used in the fight and gives natsu the advantage, why isnt it a good reason? there is also the "ace didnt show anything suprior to natsu in close combat"-thing as far as i remember :)
 
GreatestSin said:
^why not? it is a ability which can be used in the fight and gives natsu the advantage, why isnt it a good reason? there is also the "ace didnt show anything suprior to natsu in close combat"-thing as far as i remember :)
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It in no way is an acceptable reason imo. If he his fire immunity was such a deciding factor, than why couldn't Natsu beat Nuova Shenron? He can simply Eat Nuova Shenron's fire lolololololol.


You're joking right? Please tell me you aren't serious. Yugioh 5D's Jack Atlas has more hand to hand combat feats than Natsu since he beat a boat load of likely 100 men into submission with his bare hands. Natsu has NO Close combat skills. I'm sorry, but Fire Punching someone isn;t close combat skills. If it was, the nearly physicaly inept Alakazam would be a Close Combat expert since it can use Fire Punch
 
JiroUchiha9 said:
It in no way is an acceptable reason imo. If he his fire immunity was such a deciding factor, than why couldn't Natsu beat Nuova Shenron? He can simply Eat Nuova Shenron's fire lolololololol.
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NLF, so we only use his fire immunity when he fight against someone on his tier.
 
Not Jim Sterling said:
JiroUchiha9 said:
It in no way is an acceptable reason imo. If he his fire immunity was such a deciding factor, than why couldn't Natsu beat Nuova Shenron? He can simply Eat Nuova Shenron's fire lolololololol.
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NLF, so we only use his fire immunity when he fight against someone on his tier.
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That's still the logic used when people argue his fire immunity as a huge advantage/deciding factor. They act as if his immunity to his opponent's fire cripples them as much as he's crippled by opponent's with magick cancellation or a fire immunity/resistance and better physical ability, much like Ace and Kouen Ren and Sabo and Charizard etc.

Not saying his fire immunity is useless, cuz wihout a fire immunity, Ace just bodies him like Goku bodies the HST, but people that act/assume like a fire immunity makes him the most powerful fire user in Tier 7 or allows him to defeat stronger characters that use fire honestly don't know what they're talking about imo.
 
JiroUchiha9 said:
It in no way is an acceptable reason imo. If he his fire immunity was such a deciding factor, than why couldn't Natsu beat Nuova Shenron? He can simply Eat Nuova Shenron's fire lolololololol.
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i dont see why not, the fac that natsu can eat aces flames means that most of aces DF-powers are useless(like: most of his AP feats), i didnt say it automatically means he wins, he still wins but not solely because of that...

as for the other point: most of natsus fight (to the point i have seen) are close combat, he strengthens his fists with fire, and than pucnhes his enemy, what else do you expect for close combat skills?

@ lordaizen

it is at least a year ago that i ahve read/watched ace vs BB, but from what i can remember wasnt ace hopelessly pummeled around the moment the match turned into a CQC? one of BBs punches nearly broke aces neck (according to him (if i remember correctly))...

except for a showing of his own bodys durability i dont remember him having any notable attacks..
 
The fire immunity isn't a factor to me because Ace is also immune to fire. Natsu has a limit to eating foreign types of fire, as seen in every iteration of him absorbing flames that aren't normal. When he ate Zancrow's flames, not sure if this is canon or not, he had to use all of his fire first, which put him at a HUGE stamina disadvantage. I doubt normal fire and Ace's fire are the same thing, so for NAtsu to eat Ace/his fire, he'd have to exhaust all of his magick first, giving Ace an even larger advantage. I really can't see how Natsu stands an honest chance.

.....what? You actually count throwing flaming punches as close combat skills? Obito vs. Kakashi is a perfect example of close combat skills, same with any martial arts movie. Close combat skills = hand to hand combat skills. Throwing flaming punches while screaming is NOT Close combat skills. The FT VERSE is very lacking in actual close quarters combat skill. The number of Hand to hand confrontations that last more than 30 second-1 minute and/or mean anything to the outcome are much lower than the average battle shounen. Infact, as far as I can remember, Bacchus is the only FT character i can think of that actually displayed Hand to hand combat skills
 
^what makes you think that aces flame is different than normal flames? (well, normal in the usual depiction of fire in fiction), because until now, i cant remember seeing aces fire having something that makes him more special than natsus fire or the fire of regular pryokinesis users...

it doesnt need to look flashy, it is a way to fight in close combat and therefore a close combat skill... as for their decisive-ness in a fight: true, but this is a trait for FT, in this fight it is a barely shown close combat fighter vs someone who enhances his punches and has (in comparsion) way more cloe combat feats...

PS: this fight seems to be already labelled as inconclusive, at least according to aces profile :(
 
Well, if it's already added as inconclusive(which I agree with) under Ace's profile, someone should do the same for Natsu.

But just to put this out there, the only reason why Natsu had trouble eating Zancrow's flames, is becasue It's on a higher tier than Natsu's flames. Zancrow's a God Slayer. You can make a argument that it would apply to him trying to eat Akainu's attacks if someone would to make a VS, and you likely be right, but other than the fact that Ace is living fire, there's nothing special about his fire that someone could say natsu wouldn't be able to eat, certainly not more special than Natsu, who's flames are not only magic, but can now be mixed with lightning. Not to mention he has better feats with his flames than Ace does. Natsu had no problem eating fire from other flame magic users, even those that looked different than normal fire. Even was able to eat objects just because they were covered in fire. During the dragon attacks in the magic games, natsu was chewing on a Dragon that was actually made of nothing but fire, even while he was getting tossed all over the place due to the dragon trying to shake him off.
 
Was that in the manga though? I remember reading on the FT wiki that different bits and pieces of the dragon attacks were non cannon, like the appearance of Scissor Runner iirc (Arguably the best dragon but meh). I remember he actually talked to said dragon at one point. As soon as NAtsu mentioned that he was connected to Igneel, Atlus Flame basically gave him his power.

I'm not saying that Ace has some kind of God Slayer like flames, but if Natsu's highest feats were what, City+, and Ace had that giant, half island iirc fireball, wouldn't that count as beyond Natsu's own flames since it seems stronger and has a much larger AoE than Natsu's attacks? a Peak 7-B's flames vs. an at least 7-B's flames seems kind of even, but the 'at least' makes me question that. Kinda sucks that Ace died before we could get a little more on him to discern if he could be 7-A or HIgh 7-B

Also, how smart is Ace during combat? Would it be too much of a stretch for Ace to realize that NAtsu can't move (at least I can't recall him ever being mobile while absorbing flames) while eating fire and use it to his advantage for a close quarters attack? If it is, disregard this. If not, him using some form of fire attack for Natsu to stand still and absorb to close in with his Haki enhanced knife seems like a possibility. Especially because NAtsu doesn't seem like he'd be capable of outsmarting Ace
 
JiroUchiha9 said:
Was that in the manga though? I remember reading on the FT wiki that different bits and pieces of the dragon attacks were non cannon, like the appearance of Scissor Runner iirc (Arguably the best dragon but meh). I remember he actually talked to said dragon at one point. As soon as NAtsu mentioned that he was connected to Igneel, Atlus Flame basically gave him his power.

I'm not saying that Ace has some kind of God Slayer like flames, but if Natsu's highest feats were what, City+, and Ace had that giant, half island iirc fireball, wouldn't that count as beyond Natsu's own flames since it seems stronger and has a much larger AoE than Natsu's attacks? a Peak 7-B's flames vs. an at least 7-B's flames seems kind of even, but the 'at least' makes me question that. Kinda sucks that Ace died before we could get a little more on him to discern if he could be 7-A or HIgh 7-B

Also, how smart is Ace during combat? Would it be too much of a stretch for Ace to realize that NAtsu can't move (at least I can't recall him ever being mobile while absorbing flames) while eating fire and use it to his advantage for a close quarters attack? If it is, disregard this. If not, him using some form of fire attack for Natsu to stand still and absorb to close in with his Haki enhanced knife seems like a possibility. Especially because NAtsu doesn't seem like he'd be capable of outsmarting Ace
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Natsu actually has the mc trait of being battle smart and just because Ace had a better feat doesn't mean Natsu is a at a disadvantage Natsu was able to eat Atlas Flame's Fire even though Atlas could easily beat him so he could still eat Ace's flames
 
That's fair, although I'd honestly question the battle smart part, although smarts don't really factor in much when you factor in the PIS of FT.

I was speaking to my little brother, who's more knowledable about OP than I am, and he said that Ace is in his fire form at all times, and that the only people to hit him were Akainu because of his magama and BlackBeard because of his DF cancellation, and that all other forms of offense simply phased through him because he was made of fire. Is that true? If it is, than all Natsu could do is use his Lightning attacks, which wouldn't be very effective since they seem to still be primarily fire
 
yeah but that only applied to attacks that were physically normal or weren't a logia type DF I do not think Natsu's flame enhanced punches and kicks count as "phyisically normal" and he still has his mid-long range attacks like the FD's Roar or Brilliant Flame
 
Aces flames will only make Natsu stronger. Even if Natsu couldn't eat them they would have no effect whatsoever. Natsus reflexes, speed, and especially strength as a dragon slayer make this a easy win for him in my opinion
 
Natsu's flames would more than likely not have an affect on Ace either. "reflexes, speed..." Ace is actually FAR faster... besides,,, it is speed equalized...
 
Natsu's flame more stronger he melting the arena of GMG simply from his own aura, and also dried up the lake, even without his FDKM. Of course Ace's flame are useless again's Natsu
 
Natsu's flames being "more powerful" is just an opinion based off of his melting capabilities vs Ace's pulverizing capabilities.

Ace still wins this. The only reason this is inconclusive is due to their speeds being equalized. Ace wins with normal speed. Someone update their pages, please. Would do it myself but I can't do the link->text thing to save my life.
 
I still think it's inconclusive. While Ace is stronger, Natsu could still eat him. I actually can't imagine Natsu being beaten down just by bare hands. Is intangibility off?
 
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