Portgas D. Ace vs Natsu Dragneel

[Primaris_Brian]

That is what you call, a No limit Fallacy

because he has never show or not yet show his limits and flame that can even burn a flame is indeed exist in fairy tail verse, and He can even eat flame that is superior to his own flame.

i know, thats why i give you an example.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

also i'm just thinking about this, there are limits of how much heat ace can take and if ace just continue to power up natsu then at one time natsu probably can even gather enough flame to just burn ace.

Wait what? how is Natsu going to burn fire? XD

 

[Primaris_Brian]

also i'm just thinking about this, there are limits of how much heat ace can take and if ace just continue to power up natsu then at one time natsu probably can even gather enough flame to just burn ace.

Wait what? how is Natsu going to burn fire? XD

I mean magma can hurt him, and while magma is not fire, magma is still hot like a fire, so that show there are limits of how much heat he can take.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

also i'm just thinking about this, there are limits of how much heat ace can take and if ace just continue to power up natsu then at one time natsu probably can even gather enough flame to just burn ace.

Wait what? how is Natsu going to burn fire? XD

I mean magma can hurt him, and while magma is not fire, magma is still hot like a fire, so that show there are limits of how much heat he can take.

Apparently Akainu was able to do that because the Magu-Magu no Mi trumps the Mera Mera no Mi. likewise the Hie Hie no Mi would be able to trump the Yuki Yuki no Mi. Well that's according to the one-piece wiki anyway :V Also it could have just been that Akainu used Haki <,<

 

[LordAizenSama]

iirc it was something about the properties of magma/lava being superior to fire, and being to smother his flames out or something

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Apparently Akainu was able to do that because the Magu-Magu no Mi trumps the Mera Mera no Mi. likewise the Hie Hie no Mi would be able to trump the Yuki Yuki no Mi. Well that's according to the one-piece wiki anyway :V Also it could have just been that Akainu used Haki <,<

no, i remember he say his magma can even burn fire or something like that, I mean that dosent make sense, but since this is fiction and thing like amaterasu or the god slayer magic can also do the same, so that fire burn fire thing can happen.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

iirc it was something about the properties of magma/lava being superior to fire, and being to smother his flames out or something

the same for dragon fire magic which is superior to fire, or god slayer fire which is more superior to dragon fire but natsu can still eat that fire and even raise his fire resistance to the point where he can use god slayer fire without even hurting himself and even create new type of fire.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Apparently Akainu was able to do that because the Magu-Magu no Mi trumps the Mera Mera no Mi. likewise the Hie Hie no Mi would be able to trump the Yuki Yuki no Mi. Well that's according to the one-piece wiki anyway :V Also it could have just been that Akainu used Haki <,<

no, i remember he say his magma can even burn fire or something like that, I mean that dosent make sense, but since this is fiction and thing like amaterasu or the god slayer magic can also do the same, so that fire burn fire thing can happen.
Whoa Natsu can use god slayer fire now? wow I've missed a lot I should probably start watching/reading fairy tail again XD

 

[Primaris_Brian]

no, i remember he say his magma can even burn fire or something like that, I mean that dosent make sense, but since this is fiction and thing like amaterasu or the god slayer magic can also do the same, so that fire burn fire thing can happen.

Whoa Natsu can use god slayer fire now? wow I've missed a lot I should probably start watching/reading fairy tail again XD
or you can just read my post above you.

 

[CinCameron20]

Ace still has logia Regenerationn. If Natsu eats a large portion of his body, he can bring it back via flames. Ace is experienced in hand-to-hand combat due to his childhood and especially during his life after becoming a pirate. He fought against Jinbe for 5 days non-stop -- how is Natsu going to go on for nearly that long when his stamina is limited due to the amount of stamina he has showcased? He knows haki (it was confirmed due to his reaction to Luffy and that he unlocked it during his late childhood, but his level of understanding of Observation and Armament have never been shown).

This post annoys me on the simple basis that it is "Speed equalized", which makes it so that Ace is restricted to being equal to Natsu's speed and he may never show his full power in the manga unless we see a flash back. Ace would win with Normal Speed.

Ace's flames would pretty much give Natsu the edge since they both cancel each other out but Natsu can devour Ace's attacks. But Ace has much more stamina. This fight is going to remain at a stalemate or a Extreme difficulty for either one (depending on your opinion towards Natsu's Lightning Flame dragon style/Dragon-slayer limits and Ace's flame + haki capabilities) with Speed equalized until we see Natsu pull out and master Dragon force (unless it doesn't get him to 7-A, then it will still likely be a stalemate).

This fight should be concluded once Natsu has pulled out another power-up. If it were not for his inferior stamina pool and the fact that Ace has CoC as a last resort, he'd likely have this. As of right now, I don't see either having a decisive trick over the other unless it turns out to be false that Ace can use haki, but considering he and Jinbe have made it clear that they know of the different types of haki and the former unlocked CoC during his childhood, it is unlikely that they'd be unable to use it since it was stated that everyone has the ability to use the 2 types of haki and Ace has the 3rd. I find this to be inconclusive if not an extreme difficulty fight for one of these two, tbh.

 

[Czuczian11]

Everything may change with time as Natsu can and most likely is going to be stronger than City Level Hypersonic+ EoS if he have to compete with Mountain Level MHS Acnologia while Ace will not change his tier unless some calcs/plot twists will happen.

However as of 475 chapter of Fairy Tail i honestly (as great fan and supporter) see no reason why Ace should even use his Fruit in this battle. With equalized speed Natsu still has not enoug power to crush Ace unless Ace willfully lets him to absorb himself.

Most likely in the future Natsu will stomp

 

[CinCameron20]

Can we just make speed normal and make this Ace's win? With speed equal and "natsu at his peak" which is with Igneel's power after 2nd time-skip, it would likely be a stalemate since Natsu would likely hurt Ace via eating and lightning before he starts running out of magic power and Ace's only means of harming Natsu is with his knife and fists.

Edit: also, Wendy bout to reach max potential Gon/Ichigo style.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Ok before i say anything else can anyone explained to me why ace has the stamina to fight against jinbei for days but got defeated quickly when he fight against BB?

also jesus christ I just woke up and got about 20 notification...

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Ok before i say anything else can anyone explained to me why ace has the stamina to fight against jinbei for days but got defeated quickly when he fight against BB?
also jesus christ I just woke up and got about 20 notification...

It's been quite a while since I watched that battle but if i remember correctly wasn't BB draining Ace's power or something during the fight?

 

[CinCameron20]

@Not Jim Sterling -- their fight did not show the conclusion, so they could have been fighting for a longer period of time, but Blackbeard's power disabled Ace's logia capabilities and his physical blows were intended to disable and possibly kill Ace. Both of them took lethal blows with no protection, but we did not see the end of their duel due to the fight being cut off after their final clash. Blackbeard has always been noted to have a strange body--especially by Marco. We don't know how their fight ended, but BB's DF ability has several hax that could have ended the fight quickly.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

@All -- So natsu can eat ace flames but ace can keep fighting for days, except if natsu have BB hax, well ok I going to ask one more question since after this we all probably just going to repeat the same argument over and over again, since natsu can become stronger by eat flames does that mean he can automatically replenish his stamina? I just wanna hear the opinions from ace,and natsu suporter about this.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Hmmm....I think the answer to your question would be yes, atleast I think. If i remember correctly he was seriously tired in the battle against Gajeel but after he ate some fire he was good to go again.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

So this fight is basically be damned to be a long fight, anyway i going to wait for other response.

 

[CinCameron20]

Natsu's magic power restores, but not his stamina from my memory. He can still feel fatigued but regain his magical abilities and fight back. His injuries do not fade and it is like a short burst of adreniline from eating flames.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Natsu's magic power restores, but not his stamina from my memory. He can still feel fatigued but regain his magical abilities and fight back. His injuries do not fade and it is like a short burst of adreniline from eating flames.

his stamina too, but not his injures

 

[CinCameron20]

His stamina has always shown to be restored for a short burst, but immediately after using the boost he gained via eating flames, he'd be much more exhausted than he was prior. The only exception I have seen is when he ate Atlas Flame's fire.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

His stamina has always shown to be restored for a short burst, but immediately after using the boost he gained via eating flames, he'd be much more exhausted than he was prior. The only exception I have seen is when he ate Atlas Flame's fire.

That probably happen because he just ended up using all the flames that he eat or something like that, I remember him recover his power by eating a camp fire when he do a marathon run.

 

[CinCameron20]

Wait, wasn't that Filler?

 

[Primaris_Brian]

Wait, wasn't that Filler?

don't know my memory kinda fail me, I forget in what episode that was happen.

 

[MrAsthmatic]

I'd say inconclusive or tie, something like that. Going by feats, I sincerely doubt that Ace can compete with natsu in either fire manipulation or hand to hand, yet there's nothing definite to say that Natsu could bypass Ace's intangiblity. Could he eat Ace? How can you say for sure? How much fire can he eat anyway? Also, natsu's fire isn't normal fire at all. It definitely seems to be superior to Ace's fire, but by how much? Enough to bypass intangibily? There's no definite yes or no on any of these questions.

 

[CinCameron20]

Considering that Ace at the "flame fruit", there is no certainty for Ace to be harmed by Natsu's flames and he might actually use them to his advantage much like Natsu would if he ate Ace's flames.

It is inconclusive since both are fairly adept in hand-to-hand (Ace being immune to it, but Natsu has Lighting-based attacks that may or may not have an affect on Ace), have the same elemental powers with similar AP and immunity towards the element, both having similar durability, but Ace has more stamina since he was capable of fighting against Jinbe for 5 days non-stop, Natsu can restore his magic power and stamina to an extent via eating flames, etc...

Neither has a definite advantage over the other, which is why I state that it will either be a tie, or extreme difficulty for one of the two.

Natsu will likely win in the future, but as of right now, both are very similar stat-wise and can not be harmed by the other's most powerful attacks. They'd be fighting non-stop.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

well since I still feel sick and i'm not going to argue about this matter anytime soon, so what is the result? inconclusive?

 

[GreatestSin]

my vote goes to natsu ^_^

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Natsu has no way of damaging a logia so he can't really do anything but on the flipside Ace can't use his flames but he does have the striking strength to damage people with city level durability since he could fight Blackbeard, in the end Ace can damage Natsu but not vice-versa. Even if it turns into a battle of stamina we have seen Ace fighting for 5 days straight while Natsu doesn't have any impressive stamina feats. I don't see Natsu coming out victorious here.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

For now, I'm gonna put it under Ace's inconclusive, but I'm going to leave a note that speed was equalized and that Ace would win if it wasn't.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Natsu has no way of damaging a logia so he can't really do anything but on the flipside Ace can't use his flames but he does have the striking strength to damage people with city level durability since he could fight Blackbeard, in the end Ace can damage Natsu but not vice-versa. Even if it turns into a battle of stamina we have seen Ace fighting for 5 days straight while Natsu doesn't have any impressive stamina feats. I don't see Natsu coming out victorious here.

Natsu has insane stamina and fire resistance

And Natsu has a lot of ways to hit Ace

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Natsu has insane stamina and fire resistance

And Natsu has a lot of ways to hit Ace

Can Natsu fight for days on end? I don't think so. I acknowledge that Natsu has great fire resistance but Ace doesn't need to use fire to hurt Natsu.

What kind of ways can Natsu hit Ace?

 

[CinCameron20]

@Kaen ... saying that he has a lot of ways to hit Ace and not listing any ways is quite silly.

Ace wins this.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@Kaen ... saying that he has a lot of ways to hit Ace and not listing any ways is quite silly.
Ace wins this.

Sorry

I was talking for Normal Ace

No Logia Form

 

[CinCameron20]

...? this isn't about "normal" ace... he still has logia intangibility and the only restriction that is keeping this from being Ace's win is that speed is equalized. This is nearly a stalemate, but Ace wins via CQC.

 

[Primaris_Brian]

CQC? you mean Haoshoku Haki? since Haoshoku Haki is only useful on fodders lol.

 

[CinCameron20]

no... CQC = close quarters. Also, CoC is not just useful against fodder. It can be used in combat to briefly stun opponents and enhance striking power. Luffy and Doflamingo are the first to actually showcase this.

 

[GreatestSin]

natsu takes this, ace never showed good close combat powers, we dont even know if he is awesome in haki usage, since natsu can always fill his stamina and magic with aces flames i give it to natsu...

 

[CinCameron20]

^ Lol... Ace was noted by one of BB's subordinates for having exceptional physical capabilities and that it was expected of a Commander in WB's crew.

"Fill his stamina and magic" He would become increasingly fatigued the more he tries to restore his magic power by absorbing Ace much like he ALWAYS has whenever he binge eats fire.

 

[JiroUchiha9]

Yeah, I just read up on Ace's profile since I'm not familiar with him, and I gotta say he takes this. I've read the Fairy Tail manga and watched the anime, and Natsu has little to no hand to hand combat skill against characters around his level because he normally spams his fire attacks until they overwhelm him where he eventually gets a nakama power up to beat them.

If speed is equalized and Natsu realizes that his nigh on only form of offense is useless, he's basically screwed because Ace is stated to be an expert hand to hand combatant, something I can tell from Experience that NAtsu is not. Especially since Ace can use a Haki enhanced knife along with his normal hand to hand combat, proving that he has at least enough experience to be proficent with a weapon, something that again, Natsu is not. I don't even think Natsu has experience canonically fighitng short-mid range weapon users, so combating Ace with a Haki enhanced knife isn't going to be something he will be able to handle very well.

And as for the LFD mode, I doubt that will mean much to be honest since the attacks still seem to be primarily fire. Sure the Lightning stuff will be some form of problem, but uh, unless Natsu can use completely lightning attacks, it won't honestly mean anything since Natsu at his peak seems to be 7-B, which according to what i read on Ace's profile is the low end of his Tier. I doubt a peak 7-B using/trying a new attack style (pure lightning) to get around an opponent's immunity would be able to stop a 'at least Low 7-B/7-B' before they can retaliate, but I might be wrong.


TL;DR: Ace has way too much combat skill and experience for NAtsu to handle, especially since NAtsu's primary fighting style is fire spam until Nakama power up

Side note: Why is NAtsu, a fire user that can EAT fire and recover with it only being put against other fire users? I've seen him put against Ace, Sabo, Charizard, etc. Sad part is, using their physical skill and in charizard's case, non fire abilities, they all beat NAtsu with mid-diff at most.