Pokemon Sun and Moon Stat Placements.

[VileShadows]

Just wanted to say that Solgaleo devouring the sun is an extreme hyperbole. Solgaleo is an emissary of the sun, and is only a fraction of its true might. The whole "devouring the sun" is a reference to the alchemic symbol of a lion eating the sun. There's absolutely no way a Pokemon as featless as Solgaleo would outclass the likes of SMD Mewtwo and Rayquaza (the versions with dwarf star level feats).

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Shadow How can you tell if it is extreme hyperbole or not? Big claims like that means assumptions and speculations are in place along with everyone who can interpreted things differently. Also show solid evidence to back up this claim of yours when other people have their reasons and evidence to suggest it is possible and not out of context.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Probably in that there are no clear ramifications of said feat if it was true, but then again, god tiers would probably step in... while Volcarona becomes an artificial sun for the planet temporarily or something.

But what do I know, this is just me giving my 2 cents in.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

By the standards presented by the game for what Ultra Beasts are, it would be very much possible to scale Solgaleo and Lunala (along with the other UBs, probably) to all other non-god tier legendaries in the main series, since beings from Ultra Space are not only stated to have different boundaries than those in the regular universe, but specifically to exceed them. Little things like this are often stated via things that on their own could be argued to be hyperbole, but in context (the result of extensive scientific analysis by global police and scientists), are likely all true.

For instance, UB-02 Absorption (aka Buzzwole) is said to have a punch that would be "off the charts" and impossible to measure. This is coming from the same people who can analyze the strength of things like Machamp, Tyranitar, or even pokemon like Regigigas. UB-04 Blade (aka Kartana) is said to have an odd body structure which, while paper thin, has blades so sharp they can cut through any substance currently known. UB-05 Glutton (aka Guzzlord) is eating every single second it's awake, and converts all of this to energy which it absorbs and uses to fuel itself, resulting in no waste whatsoever.

Of course, this does not show that the UBs + Solgaleo and Lunala are star level, but it shows that even compared to other powerful Pokemon in the franchise, their power is treated as horrifying and incredibly dangerous, and that they all get pretty solid scaling despite many lacking proper feats of their own. The Tapus would scale as well, but they are obviously weaker to an extent (it took all four to stalemate Solgaleo/Lunala, individuals had to stay on the defensive when confronting random UBs, who again, are not even stated to be explicitly powerful members of their species/group).

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I say we should scale them to the Hoenn Legends mainly because of Anabel coming from Pokemon Emerald meaning the UB's had to deal with or possibly fight some og thge legends there. Knowing Rayquaza he would've fought them.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The fact that they needed to study Arceus and create something near him in power just to fight those things should prove enough that the UBs are far above normal mons.

@Dragon Do note that this Hoenn had no Mega Evolution. So no 5-C or Sub-Relat. If this calc is accepted, the scaling would only boost them to MHS+.

 

[VileShadows]

The fact that they needed to study Arceus and create something near him in power just to fight those things should prove enough that the UBs are far above normal mons.

Ehh, I don't agree with that. Silvally being "near" Arceus hasn't been backed up by any in-game statements or feats, and at face value Silvally is pretty mediocre stat-wise. I think it would be more accurate to say it's similar to Arceus in abilities given its type shifting system, which would logically give it a massive edge over Pokémon or Ultra Beasts it might normally be disadvantaged against.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^He didn't say scale Silvally to Arceus. He's just giving more proof for UB's being far above normal mons. That's it.

 

[VileShadows]

^He didn't say scale Silvally to Arceus. He's just giving more proof for UB's being far above normal mons. That's it.

Well of course that's applicable to the power of the Ultra Beasts. I just didn't like the wording "near", because it sounds as if Silvally is near Arceus in raw power.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

We don't use stats. Otherwise, Rayquaza would be 2-B. And the website info hinted that it was both power and versatility that was needed for Silvally.

 

[VileShadows]

We don't use stats. Otherwise, Rayquaza would be 2-B. And the website info hinted that it was both power and versatility that was needed for Silvally.

lol I know we don't use stats, I just brought that up because I feel like a "clone" of Arceus would have higher than base 95 in everything, not that it matters. Yeah Silvally probably has a lot of power, but on a much smaller scale than the original obviously, especially since multiple Type:Null had been created.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

There was only two of them. Well, two full model at least.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

There were 3 I believe. The third Type:Null's location is unknown.

 

[VileShadows]

There was only two of them. Well, two full model at least.

Still, you have to consider the Earthly limitations we have. Yes, humanity in Pokémon has achieved something like Mewtwo (who's 5-A if we're talking composite), though I doubt they'd have the resources to create a being who can alter universes, even the Aether Foundation (which looks to be much more well-funded than Fuji's lab). It's likely they just read up on the lore surrounding Arceus and thought it was brilliant that a Pokémon could change type in an instant. It doesn't necessarily have to have all of Arceus' other abilities, though it was undoubtably created with versatility in mind.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^You realize we are dealing with fiction right? If they wanted to create a universal pokemon they likely could. Fiction is like that.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Even Team Galactic managed to prep-time their way to Low 2-C.

Note that the text about his versatility and his power comparable to Mythological Pokémon are seperate.

"The reason is that Type: Null was constructed to synthesize the strengths of various Pokémon, enabling it to adapt to any situation."

"To complete a certain mission, there was need of a Pokémon powerful enough to rival those Pokémon often spoken of in mythology."

 

[VileShadows]

^You realize we are dealing with fiction right? If they wanted to create a universal pokemon they likely could. Fiction is like that.

I know fiction is weird like that, but logically I just don't see the corporations within the Pokémon continuity being able to do that, so I have my doubts.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

Reactive Evolution for Arceus is all I'm hearing.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Using logic like that in pokemon will not work considering Team Galactic exists...

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Breloom Ahh no as this isn't referring to Arceus, Saikou is referring to Type Null.

 

[VileShadows]

Even Team Galactic managed to prep-time their way to Low 2-C.

Note that the text about his versatility and his power comparable to Mythological Pokémon are seperate.

"The reason is that Type: Null was constructed to synthesize the strengths of various Pokémon, enabling it to adapt to any situation."

"To complete a certain mission, there was need of a Pokémon powerful enough to rival those Pokémon often spoken of in mythology."

The reason Team Galactic was able to prep their way up to low 2-C was because they had gotten their hands on the Red Chain by crafting it from the lake trio, I'm doubtful that options like that exist for Aether.

When it comes to the "often spoken of in mythology" thing, I just perceive that as being comparable to various legendary Pokémon like Ho-Oh and the likes, not specifically Arceus.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

^Considering what Aether did. Not all that hard to believe. I mean we are talking about people who can force beings from other universes to appear.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Again, there are manyy reasons why it's obviously Arceus. The typing change, the "RKS System" name and the design being similar to the Red Chain. And usually, Mythology refers to the Creation Trio in Pokémon.

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Shadow Really when the Pokedex for Arceus said otherwise.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

Type:Null was created to resemble Arceus. Note that I didn't play SUMO yet, but someone above stated that Type:Null was created with some of Arceus' power.

 

[VileShadows]

^Considering what Aether did. Not all that hard to believe. I mean we are talking about people who can force beings from other universes to appear.

True enough I suppose. My problem is that the whole thing is too vague, I feel like Silvally needs more clearly defined characteristics in order to class it into a tier. I personally have doubts of it being close universe level, but whatever you make of it is up to you

 

[VileShadows]

Wait what? I'm not doubting the power of Arceus, I'm more or less doubting Aether's scientific capabilities

 

[EnderShadowr215]

@Shadow Hmmm I see. Alright I kept a eye on this.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Sooooo...What do we rate them?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The Guzzlord calc still has to be approved. We will rate them as the result of the calc.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Oh yeah have you finished it?

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

It's right there.

 

[VileShadows]

At the very least I think we can agree with the Tapus being superior to all the Pokémon on the islands, so about 7-B if I'm not mistaken. The Ultra Beasts can also scale off of that, though I'd like to see the Guzzlord calc.

Edit: Interesting result. Small planet seems a little high but I'd like to see where this goes.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

At the very least I think we can agree with the Tapus being superior to all the Pokémon on the islands, so about 7-B if I'm not mistaken. The Ultra Beasts can also scale off of that, though I'd like to see the Guzzlord calc.
Edit: Interesting result. Small planet seems a little high but I'd like to see where this goes.

Well considering how powerful Rayquaza and Mewtwo are. This is not that surprising.

 

[VileShadows]

^I'm not necessarily surprised at the result, because Ultra Beasts are a threat to the entire world after all. I do feel like Low 5-B per ultra beast is kinda overkill though since there are multiple species of them each with multiple members. I feel like even a lower rating would still make them a collective threat to the world, and while you might say that the legendaries are also considered when saying that they're a threat to the world, most of them clearly didn't care about Deoxys' meteor even though there were other legendaries than Rayquaza that could've stopped it (though that could just be PIS). They most certainly can be Low 5-B but to me that just seems so over the top for individual members of the collective whole.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Considering how verses like Dragon Ball and Digimon have stuff like this power living with them on the norm. Certainly feasible for Pokemon. But I gotta admit, for Pokemon it always sound weird saying "Planet level Pokemon exist."

 

[EnderShadowr215]

Hmmm intriguing, I will accept this anyway as it got my support.

 

[VileShadows]

Considering how verses like Dragon Ball and Digimon have stuff like this power living with them on the norm. Certainly feasible for Pokemon. But I gotta admit, for Pokemon it always sound weird saying "Planet level Pokemon exist."

I honestly love that Pokémon started getting fordmidable ratings recently. I was pretty ecstatic to hear about the dwarf star calc for SMD Mewtwo since I absolutely love Mewtwo and always disagreed with people that said he wasn't as powerful as Pokémon fans make him out to be. That being said, I'd also like to see the series get stronger.

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

I wouldn't call Type:Null comparable to arceus by any means, for Arceus is 2-B and Type:Null got bodied by the Sun and Moon trainers standard team, and Gladion's Syvally (at best) may have fought with the Trainer's Solgaleo/Lunala. So Type:Null/Silvally isn't comparable to Arceus.

Now assuming that Solgaleo can in fact devour the Sun (so possibly 4-C), Lunala would scale to that. Now the Tapus would have to be (possibly) Low 4-C because it took 4 of them to fight Solgaleo/Lunala and they still lost.

The Ultra Beasts would have to be possibly Low 4-C because they were depicted to be stronger than the Tapus.

Now let's go ahead and say that Sun and Moon legendaries and UBs aren't Low Star Level to Star Level, they'd still scale to Pokemon like Wishiwashi who is City Level.

Brb, I gotta eat.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Jacob Same as any Legendaries being taken down by regular trainers. Beside, that's why Silvally should only be anywhere near close to Arceus at its peak.