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Pokemon SM Episode 101
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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Seriously? We're now questioning sources because the opposition couldnt get their way of the quote coming from the trainer? Pure nitpicking.
Should we just throw out any mythology lore from Canalave Library because we dont know who specifically wrote those lores?
I get wanting to be precise, but this is just ridiculous.
Should we just throw out any mythology lore from Canalave Library because we dont know who specifically wrote those lores?
I get wanting to be precise, but this is just ridiculous.
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Thats......quite the number of dreams.Shootingkill said:
And this is only for a single person right?
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Well considering the Dream World is visibly proven to have it's dream realities be actual realities, the person who wrote it clearly isn't wrong.
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The tablet is most likely saying that all dreams are connected to the dream world as opposed to every time someone dreams they create a whole universe
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Except the latter is pretty much the case since the anime flat out shows a reality from the Dream World not only being an actual reality, but a seperated one at that.Paul Frank said:
Not that all dreams period are connected and mix together.
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Not a scene for one. Majority of the episode was in the Dream World. And im not sure what the dream manipulation part is supposed to even mean. Beheeyem having dream manipulation doesn't take away from the dream being an actual reality in the dream world.Nedge1000 said:
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Also, to add more evidence to the pot, Darkrai's nightmares can be physically entered as well.
When Palkia is put in one of Darkrai's nightmares in Mystery Dungeon, the player and their teammate physically enter the dream through the use of dimensional travel / teleporation from another being (Was Arceus or Cresselia that allowed it but thats beside the main point). Then after that, Darkrai himself enters the dream disguised as Cresselia. And then right after that, the real Cresselia travels into the dream. And then afterward, Darkrai teleports out.
When Palkia is put in one of Darkrai's nightmares in Mystery Dungeon, the player and their teammate physically enter the dream through the use of dimensional travel / teleporation from another being (Was Arceus or Cresselia that allowed it but thats beside the main point). Then after that, Darkrai himself enters the dream disguised as Cresselia. And then right after that, the real Cresselia travels into the dream. And then afterward, Darkrai teleports out.
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So, you are saying the plot was just a dream?Xerkser500 said:
Let's be honest, in the Pokemon verse in in-game dream attack are treated as damage and I could find cases in anime too.
It is not going to be Pokemon = Universe for Pokemon. That would be ignoring how dream attack works in pokemon entire verse here.
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Im really not seeing how it does.Nedge1000 said:
I should also point out that Beheeyem's dream reality in the Dream World is also able to be physically accessed by others via dimensional portals. An officer Jenny that specializes in investigating psychic crimes physically entered the dream by having her Duosin create a dimensional portal with its psychic powers. Without Beheeyem knowing about it.
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What? No. Im saying the nightmare Darkrai put Palkia in was very obviously a real reality since others were able to flat out physically travel in and out of it on their own.Nedge1000 said:
This also supports the dreams in the Dream World being actual realities.
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I just kinda want to point out that the dream quote is referring to "all dreams" being "another reality" as in "dreams are another reality (the dream world)", not "every dream is a new reality" or something like that. I don't think the latter i supported by the games, while the former could easily be so.
Don't want to even touch the rest of this with a 10 foot pole, though.
Don't want to even touch the rest of this with a 10 foot pole, though.
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By this logic, every dream worlds here are a universe.Xerkser500 said:
The quote said: "All dream are but another reality. Never forget... " - this doesn't really implied universe and just seems like an inspirational quote.
This quote just looks to be about Latios here
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Southern_Island#Signs
https://youtu.be/CgP3dC6wu2w?t=29
https://youtu.be/THJGt30bxGA?t=421
> I think since the quote is referring to Latios; this entire dream/universe theory regarding the quote is now invalid.
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I have to disagree with that.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Because first, while it is possible, the quote only means the former if you interpret it as the dreams of all people and pokemon being in the same reality. It can also easily mean that each dream is its own separate reality or else if the former was the case, everyone and their mother would be telepathically connected to each other and....pretty much know what they are all dreaming about (ill get to this more in my second point) since their dreams would be mixed and intermingling with each other. This only isnt ever stated, it's kind of ridiculous to think so.
For my second point, the games may not show how the dreams are visibily depicted, but Darkrai's nightmares in MD and the Dream World in the anime surely does. And they're never at all shown to be in the same reality. In the anime's case, Ash and his friends are literally taken to the Dream World via Beheeyem and in the reality of that dream, it's only Beheeyems. If all other dreams were in the same reality, we'd have been seeing other pokemon or humans dreams being mixed with Beheeyem's. And in Mystery Dungeon's case, Darkrai's nightmares were also never shown to be mixed with any others dreams. It only contained Palkia (who he put in the nightmare) and the players and Cresselia when they physically entered it.
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Xerkser500, after research, the quote just looks to be about Latios here
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Southern_Island#Signs
https://youtu.be/CgP3dC6wu2w?t=29
https://youtu.be/THJGt30bxGA?t=421
> I think since the quote is referring to Latios so this entire dream/universe theory regarding the quote is now invalid.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Southern_Island#Signs
https://youtu.be/CgP3dC6wu2w?t=29
https://youtu.be/THJGt30bxGA?t=421
> I think since the quote is referring to Latios so this entire dream/universe theory regarding the quote is now invalid.
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Just wanna point out. Even if dreams of everyone are separated from each other that doesn't mean they are separated by distinct time spaces. Dreams of multiple people not intermingling isn't necessarily proof of them being separate universes.
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Wait, if im reading this correctly, is your point here saying the quote is talking about Latios?Nedge1000 said:
How in the hell did you come down to that conclusion?
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That would imply every human and pokemon's dream takes place at the same time when they sleep or are in a dream like state.Andytrenom said:
Which is obviously very, very false.
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And? It being a shrine to Latios doesn't at all mean the quote about dreams and such has anything to do with Latios.Nedge1000 said:
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I think the feats that you just described are only Dream Manipulation. Nothing needs to be up to interpretation if you want to be valid universes.Xerkser500 said:
Dream Manipulation is the power to affect and control dreams.
This is an ability that can vary greatly in complexity and power, with the most simple usages of it can only just alter dreams with no direct repercussions stemming from them.
However, the real, powerful users of this ability can use it in a number of ways. Some can travel through the dreams of others and use them as a medium for communication or even for attack, striking at other people in their dreams, potentially affecting them in the real world.
The greatest users of this power can completely control the world of dreams as another plane of reality, toying with it and altering dreams according to their whims, with some even being capable of dragging others into the world of dreams to kill or imprison them within its boundaries.
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Taking place in the same time-space =/= taking place at the same time
Something that happens today and something that happened a million years ago would take place in same time-space or rather the same timeline. Time-space in this context means the 4 dimensional structure of a universe not a location existing within a specific coordinate of time and space. Going by that definition, multiple people's dreams can very well exist in the same time-space even if their dreams are occurring at different points of times.
That said I am not well aware of the context so I can't determine if this assumption is more reasonable that multiple realities assumption, so that part is for others to decide.
Something that happens today and something that happened a million years ago would take place in same time-space or rather the same timeline. Time-space in this context means the 4 dimensional structure of a universe not a location existing within a specific coordinate of time and space. Going by that definition, multiple people's dreams can very well exist in the same time-space even if their dreams are occurring at different points of times.
That said I am not well aware of the context so I can't determine if this assumption is more reasonable that multiple realities assumption, so that part is for others to decide.
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so in short...........we need more stated evidence than just that scan
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You're not seeing the issue though nedge. Ash and the group were physically led into Beheeye's dream reality he created. This would probably be purely dream manipulation if Beheeyem was just taking the minds of Ash and his friends into a dream while they were actually sleeping. But thats not at all what happened. They were very much awake and conscious prior to Beheeyem trapping them in it's dream.Nedge1000 said:
This, and the fact that officer jenny could also physically travel into the dream reality by force via Duosin's dimensional psychic portal, would prove that Beheeyem's dream is an actual reality that he just led others directly into. Not wait for them to fall asleep and then trap their minds like the passage you wrote here.
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Yes, and the scans need to leave to leave nothing to interpretations. Evidence that dream worlds = universe should be at least on Illumina (Archie Comics) and Zeekeeper's level of evidences.Dragopentling said:
i,e: Zeekeeper's : Let me remind, in himself, every dream became in a real universe.
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But again, if these dreams were to be taking place in the same time-space, that would imply the dreams can be physically accessed by other dreams. My point is like this.Andytrenom said:
A trainer and their pokemon fall asleep. They dream and each have their own realities for the dreams to be taking place. For your argument of them sharing the same space-time to be plausible, the dreamers in their own dream realities would need to be able to physically go into the dreams of each other.
And thats never shown to be the case. Beheeyem's dream reality has never been shown to be able to be physically accessed by another persons dream.
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What one verse has as evidence =/= what all others need.Nedge1000 said:
And we are using more than just that game scan. Im going by actual showed depicitons of the Dream World to prove its case.
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They're not really physical, per se (because they're dreams), but this is exactly what the pokemon dream world in the games is shown to be like.Xerkser500 said:
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Have they been confirmed to be inaccessible by other person's dream or is there just not an instance of this happening?
Also, being inaccessible wouldn't be proof of being in different time-spaces. Pocket realities and similar realms are often innacessible to people from Earth but that doesn't prove they are distinct time-spaces, otherwise they wouldn't have to be lowballed to 4-A, 5-B, 3-B whatever so often.
Also, being inaccessible wouldn't be proof of being in different time-spaces. Pocket realities and similar realms are often innacessible to people from Earth but that doesn't prove they are distinct time-spaces, otherwise they wouldn't have to be lowballed to 4-A, 5-B, 3-B whatever so often.
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By "physical" of course I didnt mean it in the way you thought but it was to clarify my point.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
And which game again? Dream Radar? I never actually played it so i'll need a refresher.
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As far as Beheeyem's dream reality goes, its the former.Andytrenom said:
When Ash and the group were stuck in the Dream World, they couldnt leave at first because Pikachu, Meowth and Axew were still asleep and dreaming. Yet whatever dream each of them were having, their dreams were never shown to be able to physically connect to Beheeyems despite them still being present in Beheeyem's dream.
The reality belonged to Beheeyem and only Beheeyem.
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Not Dream Radar (though maybe it was, I honestly remember so little of it). I was referring to Pokemon Dream World, which takes place in the titular dream world. Unfortunately, I believe the ability to actually play the game was shut down with the rest of Gen V's online capabilities.
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Dang, I see...
Maybe I could try and find some playthroughs of it online to get a look at it. Youtube im pretty sure has some.
Maybe I could try and find some playthroughs of it online to get a look at it. Youtube im pretty sure has some.
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I believe there are still ways to access online stuff still.
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