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Pokemon Scaling Issue (IMPORTANT)
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
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- pokémon
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Not quite , was the showings contradicted? Yeah.
Only going for non contradicted showings cal.
Only going for non contradicted showings cal.
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God ki
Pokemon.
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- Thread starter
- #205
That...literally has NOTHING to do with my reply regarding Cynthia and the champs....
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This and the other thread needs to be closed and a rule against this made.
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Dark, not how that at all worked.
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Initially, Goku couldn't even get above 7-B. The Ultra Sacred Water unleased his power to its fullest potential, which was 7-B. Then his potential was unlocked further, until he finally got to Low 2-C.
Nothing even remotely similar to this happened with the trainers. Nothing, literally nothing. They didn't even get a BS power-up to go along with it.
It's 100% ridiculous to argue this, and to compare those things.
It's like saying this:
Guy 1: Amitabha is big.
Guy 2: Well, so is an elephant.
Nothing even remotely similar to this happened with the trainers. Nothing, literally nothing. They didn't even get a BS power-up to go along with it.
It's 100% ridiculous to argue this, and to compare those things.
It's like saying this:
Guy 1: Amitabha is big.
Guy 2: Well, so is an elephant.
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And even if Cynthia didn't work, one example-- being Cynthia (if at all) doesn't negate EVERY OTHER fight that happened. EACH OUTLIER MUST HAVE A RATIONAL AND SOLID ARGUMENT BACKING IT UP. OTHERWISE NO ONE MAKES SENSE.
For Christ's sake, I just want to find someone who can debunk this like Lephye said, otherwise I will have to live in a world where universal pokémon trainers are a thing-- I have to live in that works because I deal with FACTS and live by FACTS. Not what I "feel is true".
For Christ's sake, I just want to find someone who can debunk this like Lephye said, otherwise I will have to live in a world where universal pokémon trainers are a thing-- I have to live in that works because I deal with FACTS and live by FACTS. Not what I "feel is true".
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Emerald example, he has a tough time against several other characters afterwards. Lucas doesn't stomp Cynthia because a stomp wouldn't be fun, and Cynthia states that she had fun.
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From what I can gather: Pokemon trainers and other randoms cannot scale to the CT/Arceus as that contradicts lore.
Is that the conclusion here?
Is that the conclusion here?
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- Thread starter
- #213
Which nothing even suggests that and is also a game mechanic.Amexim said:
I can train my pokemon to easily beat the league. While another person can be struggling through hell to win. Doesnt in any way suggest he stomps them easily.
And still doesnt disprove the fact that if Cynthia was 2-B, she would literally be all thats needed to stop Team Galactic's plans. Instead of leaving it in the hands of children. And this goes for EVERY team, protag and regional champion too.
Enough of this.
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Matt ya gotta stop. Ya have not debunked anything. And lack infirmation on critical elements ta the debate and topic at hand Matt.
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Yeah but cal, said opponents fought legends.
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Then that specific example doesn't work.
You have to DEBUNK EVERY SINGLE ONE, then make a blog covering why it's not valid in detail. Not only that, but for some reason you guys aren't using your selective scaling in the first place to strawman me.
There aren't any pokémon trainers that beat the Gen 4 Protagonist, right? So no one scales, because he STOMPS everyone and EVERYTHING he fights.
You have to DEBUNK EVERY SINGLE ONE, then make a blog covering why it's not valid in detail. Not only that, but for some reason you guys aren't using your selective scaling in the first place to strawman me.
There aren't any pokémon trainers that beat the Gen 4 Protagonist, right? So no one scales, because he STOMPS everyone and EVERYTHING he fights.
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The literal best you can argue is Ghetsis, because you canonically have Reshiram/Zekrom in your party when you fight him, after beating Zekrom/Reshiram. And it'd still be an outlier.
Also, Pokémon much weaker than the Creation Trio blow up Pokeballs (Ancient Gengar & Ancient Alakazam, Mewtwo, a f*cking Whiscash, hell, Palkia's done it before). Catching them is pure PIS.
Also, Pokémon much weaker than the Creation Trio blow up Pokeballs (Ancient Gengar & Ancient Alakazam, Mewtwo, a f*cking Whiscash, hell, Palkia's done it before). Catching them is pure PIS.
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TheJ-ManRequiem said:
specify which legends, most legendary are infinitely weaker than the CT
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The only reason said character could fight legendaries is because of the stat system in pokemon games. People are using game mechanics for scaling but ignore the stat system all together, either pokemon with 100 base stats are universal+ or you can't use battling in games as means of scaling.
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chaosPaChi2 said:
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Anyway, I will only respond to Ryukama, since he is the only one civil enough to go around and not insult others and try to actually discuss this (and Cal, but who cares about him, amiright? ovo). I have already said why I personally disagree, so I will be taking my leave.
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So, every battle that a trainer with a powerful legend participates in and wins can be called a stomp.
Every battle where they lose to fodder is either an outlier for that trainer or negates THEIR specific RATING. Not all ratings in general.
Ash fighting a regice, for example, would be inconsistent-- just like ash loosing to a Starter Snivy is! Or maybe we can do some weird shit to section off scaling for certain points in Pikachu's levels, making Gen 3 Pikachu different from Gen 5 pikavhu-- not negating the feat AT ALL
Every battle where they lose to fodder is either an outlier for that trainer or negates THEIR specific RATING. Not all ratings in general.
Ash fighting a regice, for example, would be inconsistent-- just like ash loosing to a Starter Snivy is! Or maybe we can do some weird shit to section off scaling for certain points in Pikachu's levels, making Gen 3 Pikachu different from Gen 5 pikavhu-- not negating the feat AT ALL
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Wanna point out, not debating for tier 2, debating for tier 5/6 off legend fighting.
Multiversal just happened alongside by virtue thus gotta agree.
Multiversal just happened alongside by virtue thus gotta agree.
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Caulifla didn't even get any training either, so the argument that "method of gaining power matters" doesn't.
I'm saying that the only people who scale definitely are the trainers who hold the legends, with us POSSIBLY being able to consider the Cbampions-- if at all. Which, we might not even do.
I'm saying that the only people who scale definitely are the trainers who hold the legends, with us POSSIBLY being able to consider the Cbampions-- if at all. Which, we might not even do.
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@Amexim
If someone were to tell me that the Earth is flat and that the moon is a hologram I'd just laugh at them. Not every one needs to waste their times debating something so self-explanatorily wrong and plainly ridiculous.
If someone were to tell me that the Earth is flat and that the moon is a hologram I'd just laugh at them. Not every one needs to waste their times debating something so self-explanatorily wrong and plainly ridiculous.
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- Thread starter
- #227
>Snivy
Because Pikachu was weakened by Zekrom. Stop leaving stuff out to suit yourself.
Because Pikachu was weakened by Zekrom. Stop leaving stuff out to suit yourself.
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I'd agree that capturing very powerful Pokemon is PIS, given the feats of them breaking them & the like. Although, research from Team Galactic in the games the player can read indicates that a Legendary Pokemon that is captured is unable to use its full power.
It's PIS to have captured a Pokemon. But suppose it's already canon in a story that a character DID catch a Legendary Pokemon with some type of Poke Ball, be it Master Ball or otherwise. As far as canon in this case is concerned, the Pokemon is in a Poke Ball, & I can accept that that happened is PIS.
But canon is canon, & even if the successful capture of a Pokemon with a Poke Ball is PIS, should the supposed effects of a Poke Ball on Legendary Pokemon documented by lore from the main games be ignored?
What if it's the case that in the unlikely event a Legendary Pokemon is in fact, caught in a Poke Ball, that such Legendary Pokemon are severely weakened as a result? Possibly being lower tiers than they are otherwise? & that this upper limit of power imposed by Poke Balls only applies to Legendary Pokemon, as the text suggests?
It's PIS to have captured a Pokemon. But suppose it's already canon in a story that a character DID catch a Legendary Pokemon with some type of Poke Ball, be it Master Ball or otherwise. As far as canon in this case is concerned, the Pokemon is in a Poke Ball, & I can accept that that happened is PIS.
But canon is canon, & even if the successful capture of a Pokemon with a Poke Ball is PIS, should the supposed effects of a Poke Ball on Legendary Pokemon documented by lore from the main games be ignored?
What if it's the case that in the unlikely event a Legendary Pokemon is in fact, caught in a Poke Ball, that such Legendary Pokemon are severely weakened as a result? Possibly being lower tiers than they are otherwise? & that this upper limit of power imposed by Poke Balls only applies to Legendary Pokemon, as the text suggests?
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Again, "And if some instances of a fodder Pokemon beating a Creation Trio member do happen in the story as well, that'd be simple PIS."PaChi2 said:
Pretty much everyone is, by lore, vastly inferior to these 2-B God Tiers that we're trying to scale the trainers and the Pokemon they use to. Regardless if it happened in the canon.
Also as Cal said, these instance inevitably always get contradicted by far more cases of these people struggling with vastly weaker Pokemon later on.
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So, I'm not taking a side yet but I've got a few questions:
1. How the hell would DBZ scaling compare in any way at all?
2. The mere fact that there are so many instances where this can be applied begs the question of why it is not possible. In my experience, no matter how impossible a feat or growth is, if it's shown repeatedly, it is applicable. Why is that not the case here?
3. Why do we not regard needing to weaken a Pokemon to catch it game mechanics? It's only ever mentioned in the tutorial ( where they explicitly stated you need to press X to look in your bag, meaning it's not very canon, ) and is only seen during the battles, which are FULL of game mechanics.
1. How the hell would DBZ scaling compare in any way at all?
2. The mere fact that there are so many instances where this can be applied begs the question of why it is not possible. In my experience, no matter how impossible a feat or growth is, if it's shown repeatedly, it is applicable. Why is that not the case here?
3. Why do we not regard needing to weaken a Pokemon to catch it game mechanics? It's only ever mentioned in the tutorial ( where they explicitly stated you need to press X to look in your bag, meaning it's not very canon, ) and is only seen during the battles, which are FULL of game mechanics.
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Pikachu is still physically his old power , only lightning got drained.
Also hello kettle.
Also hello kettle.
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Except when nothing contradicts ryukuma?
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Kukui, there are other things you don't consider-- like how no other trainer is able to defeat the Elite 4, but you do. How your characters almost single handedly take out entire gangs-- the Protagonist in Pokémon is by himself inconsistent with the rest of the verse because they're a KID who can CAPTURE LEGENDS. It's not hard to say that Cynthia was stomped BECAUSE she had trouble with the Galactic Team either.
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if normal pokemons could challange legendary pokemons, they wouldn't be called legendaries, and aren't legendary pokemon almost alway depicted as nigh unstoppable ?
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- #237
Which is kinda his literal power source?
If I drain fire from Charmander, its going to get weaker.
Water from Squirtle, same thing.
Pikachu is an electric type so it needs to be charged with electricity to literally be strong enough to do anything.
If I drain fire from Charmander, its going to get weaker.
Water from Squirtle, same thing.
Pikachu is an electric type so it needs to be charged with electricity to literally be strong enough to do anything.
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This is going absolutely nowhere and I need to go have dinner, which is more important than this discussion. Locking it.
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Sorry for reopening Matt, but I do want to say this.
We rating trainers by the general ratings. We however gave to certain tiers only with the Legendary Pokemon they caught. No one else scaled to these ratings. Champions and such were to be rated by the general stats of our agreed endgame trainer statistics.
However, the general agreement was to summarize:
-Only the trainers who catch to Legendaries scales. And even then, only with that Pokemon or group of Pokemon.
-Other Trainers did not scale.
-Trainers scale to the stats we distributed.
That's all. Like I said, I'm neutral here.
We rating trainers by the general ratings. We however gave to certain tiers only with the Legendary Pokemon they caught. No one else scaled to these ratings. Champions and such were to be rated by the general stats of our agreed endgame trainer statistics.
However, the general agreement was to summarize:
-Only the trainers who catch to Legendaries scales. And even then, only with that Pokemon or group of Pokemon.
-Other Trainers did not scale.
-Trainers scale to the stats we distributed.
That's all. Like I said, I'm neutral here.
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This thread should probably be closed as well.
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