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Pokemon Trainer Revisions (Revised)

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Feats/Scaling for pokémon trainers, including their own personal physical stats and who they scale to.

Also: *vomits fun and games thread* https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1233627?useskin=oasis

Anyway; we could start with... Um... Red from the Manga...? Physically, he survived being frozen by Lorelei's Dewgong...? I think...? Also, Lance has healing abilities from the Manga, further proof of superhuman humans in Pokémon.
 
Yeah, they posted an image of him judo tossing a Rhyperior! He also has a fight alongside his Lucario against a Machamp, and the girl physically helps the Machamp too, I think. Either way, in addition to him being raised by pokémon and physically getting into the mix with them, Hareta might just scale to pokémon he has fought against!
 
He tanked one punch from slow start Regigigas, dive bombed by Deoxys, tanked tier 7 blast.

Jumped hundreds of feet, ride palkia through some vortex.
 
But the striking strength he used against the Machamp (I think he hit him) and in the fight against an enraged Onyx, he should scale to Rhyperior level mons in reactions, maybe even combat speed.
 
I was exaggerating with hype-- joking about scaling to Arceus. But, he did damage the Machamp though.
 
Hareta is the closest thing we have to a Digimon protagonist ovo.

On a side note, fun fact: I was introduced to Hareta before I was introduced to any of the Pokédex Holders in Pokémon Adventures.

Now that I mention it, let's start there for where they should go. Pokémon Adventures characters I mean. Because the waifu known as Sapphire has some good feats, and I kinda wanna make a Pokedex Holders subcategory ovo.
 
Crystal? As in Crys, the female protagonist in Adventures and the manga counterpart to Kris and Lyra? She has good feats?
 
Better than most.

Ruby tanked dragon ckaw and hyper beam fram a "casual" salamence. And sapphire had jumped abd fell hundreds of feet and has suoer strength.
 
I was referring to Hareta and Adventure Red. We should definitely add physical stats to the Manga as well.

But at any rate, what about Cyrus's ownership of Dialga/Palkia in US/UM-- and would that necessitate a downgrade of those two mons because of multiple versions of them existing in different timelines, making them bound to time? Because Cyrus lost in the original Gen 4 timeline, and since this AU Dialga/Palkia cannot be the real versions of either one. O mean, you could say that the Pokéballs weaken the legendaries, making it so that the Legends and Cyrus's team scale to Ultra Necrozma instead when captured by pokéballs?
 
I mean, you could be right, but how do we handle scaling them then? Because, like I said, either Cyrus is 2-C via Dialga/Palkia, and that might mean the Protagonist is 2-C? Or, Cyrus's Dialga/Palkias aren't 2-C. I could also debate you on the PIS claim (even though I think 2-C Dialga and Palkia make more sense).
 
Well for one, Dialga and Palkia aren't going to be 2-C anymore soon enough and will be upgraded to 2-B. So 2-C shouldn't even be the question here now.

Second, if 2-B is in the topic bowl right now that would probably be even more reason for this to be PIS. Cyrus if anything can be 2-B, but 2-B Protagonist is just ridiculous.
 
Argument against PIS (for the sake of accuracy and honest debate):

What exactly makes Dialga and Palkia harder than this implication in terms of what seems more likely to be true. Conceptually speaking-- Dialga and Palkia should be beyond any Space and Time-- as the creators of them-- however, the story demonstrates them as being bound by time. Therefore, unless there's a statement that Dialga and Palkia themselves are beyond Time, then... This event takes precedent over ANY other understanding for the simple fact that we're only assuming and connecting dots with logic outside of the Verse. To say it's PIS is kinda not an argument unless we have blatant proof for why it would be.
 
But, quick question. Can you be Tier 0 and still be bound by time-- because the only reasoning behind any downgrade is being bound by time. But, wouldn't that kinda make it so that there's multiple Dialgas, and downgrade his speed because he is bound by time (he is immeasurable, isn't he?).
 
Protagonist being 2-B being "ridiculous" isn't a logical argument. That's an incredulity fallacy. Can you elaborate as to why the Protagonist is completely INCAPABLE in any way shape or form of being 2-C/2-B via scaling. Because at this point, we're constantly acting as if actual Canon feats cannot happen ever. Either Cyrus isn't 2-C/2-B and the Pokéballs weaken the Creation Trio's power like he said, making him Solar System by scaling to Necrozma, or we acknowledge the fact that Pokemon trainers can catch 2-C/2-B beings in Pokéballs and would have to scale to other TRAINED pokémon. The reason they can't is because... What? It's ridiculous for anyone to be able to catch Arceus-- to hurt any of these guys?
 
@J-man, thanks, wanted to confirm if that's true. Meaning, this isn't PIS, because the Creators were weakened by capture.

Still doesn't explain why there are multiple versions of them in different timelines...
 
Your mixing their physical Avatar forms with their true forms, which ARE the concepts. There being multiple forms of their physical forms in the multiverse doesnt mean anything. And even then, their physical forms are still able to go beyond the multiverse because of an immeasurable feat from Dialga, hence why the sealed trio are even immeasurable in the first place.

Also, can you show me a cutscene or something that even suggests that? Because being caught in a pokeball has nothing to do with being bound by time if thats all your saying. As a matter of fact, what makes them being capturable in a pikeball even anything other than just game mechanics? I honestly never understood how this was a thing. Theres reason to believe that Cyrus's pokeball statement doesnt even hold water in itself.

As for the protagonist stuff, just because it happened in canon doesnt mean it can't be a flawed feat. PIS, Outliers and as such are a thing for a reason and 2-B protagonist just straight up screams outlier for reasons that should be obvious from the start. To suddenly reach a tier literally infinitely beyond the scope of the verse through what? Fighting and training against wild fodder, beating gyms/trials, etc.?
 
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