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Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

I don't know about the creation trio, but there are some internal scaling issues that I think should probably be addressed, especially since it seems people are planning a fix-up of the verse. Some of these issues are kind of just assumptions, and some might involve a different version of a character (a new key or profile, maybe).
 
That blog seems to be about the cosmology as a whole. I was only talking about scaling between some Pokémon that I see as flawed. Some scaling to others based on assumptions, some not scaling to others despite being shown fighting them evenly, that sort of thing.
 
I asked AI to write a speech about Pokemon Powerscaling in the @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera Styler
Here's what I got
The Pokémon franchise is no stranger to disrespect. Whether it’s Death Battle misrepresenting our characters, Digimon fans parroting the same tired talking points, or even our own community giving up on certain abilities as “unscalable,” it always seems like someone has something to say — and it’s never anything good.

And for the longest time, I believed them.

I let the noise get to me. I let the silence of old CRTs, the endless wait for scans, the pages that died in moderation limbo… I let it all make me think Pokémon was done. That our time in the spotlight had come and gone.

But then, something happened.

It wasn’t a huge revelation. No massive debate. No war in the comments. Just me, staring at a page that should’ve been posted months ago — another ability thread, another half-dead CRT. That’s when it hit me:

If I don’t fight for Pokémon, who will?

I’ve heard the whispers. I’ve seen the jokes. People saying Pokémon debating is a lost cause, a joke verse, a relic of the past. And I say — fine. If no one else will save it…

Then I will.

I, Sean Pazdera, will be the savior of Pokémon debating. Not out of ego, not out of desperation — but because someone has to be. Someone has to care enough to pick up the pieces, stack the scans, build the profiles, and breathe life back into this franchise one ability at a time.

This isn’t about clout. It’s not about beating Digimon. It’s not even about getting more pages accepted. It’s about building something. Piece by piece, scan by scan, until we can finally say with pride that Pokémon has a verse-wide ability system on par with the best of them.

I’ve made peace with the mods. I’ve made peace with the process. But I haven’t made peace with giving up. Not yet. Not ever.

So what you’re about to see isn’t just a CRT. It’s not just another attempt to breathe life into a franchise that deserves better.

It’s my next step.
My latest passion project.
My gift to the Pokémon community — and my latest act as its chosen defender.

Enjoy. And remember: I’m just getting started.
Click to expand...
 
vsbattles.com

A few minor changes for Blue,Alain,Origins red

It's boring to open separate CRTs for each one, so I put them together. I should have done the inf speed blue on Trainer red crt, but I forgot. It is based on the same logic as Red's speed event. Red and Blue come at the same time and we fight one of them depending on our choice. We fight as...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Hello,

I want to ask in reference to this ongoing Infinite Speed CRT for Pokemon.

Necrozma’s profile currently lists Likely Infinite Speed, but this rating appears to have been added without any CRT backing it. I wouldn't necessarily care for this had there been scans for the rating, however, the justification provided lacks scans or any point of reference, which is concerning to me.

Looking through Necrozma's page edit history, it seems that this individual was the one to add a Likely Infinite rating to speed in 2021; https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Necrozma?oldid=7089022

Is there anyone who can help clear this up? For the most part, I would appreciate an effort to show/update what the current justifications are referring to. Thanks.
 
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Wonder_of_Fantasy said:
Hello,

I want to ask in reference to this ongoing Infinite Speed CRT for Pokemon.

Necrozma’s profile currently lists Likely Infinite Speed, but this rating appears to have been added without any CRT backing it. I wouldn't necessarily care for this had there been scans for the rating, however, the justification provided lacks scans or any point of reference, which is concerning to me.

Looking through Necrozma's page edit history, it seems that this individual was the one to add a Likely Infinite rating to speed in 2021; https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Necrozma?oldid=7089022

Is there anyone who can help clear this up? For the most part, I would appreciate an effort to show/update what the current justifications are referring to. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Here's the CRT
 
Why are the Ultra Beast anime profiles 3-A, when I repeat, Necrozma was in a coma due to a meteorite in the anime? Ash, Gladio, Tapu, Solgaleo, and Lunala all claim to be above everything before Sun & Moon. What ranks above Zygarde? The only things that should rank above Necrozma in terms of legendaries would be Lugia, Eternatus, Mewtwo (in Journeys), Dialga, and Palkia. And Necrozma is definitely not 3-A.
 
Banjo77 said:
Why are the Ultra Beast anime profiles 3-A, when I repeat, Necrozma was in a coma due to a meteorite in the anime? Ash, Gladio, Tapu, Solgaleo, and Lunala all claim to be above everything before Sun & Moon. What ranks above Zygarde? The only things that should rank above Necrozma in terms of legendaries would be Lugia, Eternatus, Mewtwo (in Journeys), Dialga, and Palkia. And Necrozma is definitely not 3-A.
Click to expand...
Its full of a ton of mixed pokemon media unfortunately
 
Jinx666 said:
Its full of a ton of mixed pokemon media unfortunately
Click to expand...
If half the scale of the Anime is fake and lives literally Sm being honest anime some cases were more atypical cases considering a large number of times pokemon threatens the world can only be stopped by another legendary
 
Banjo77 said:
Why are the Ultra Beast anime profiles 3-A, when I repeat, Necrozma was in a coma due to a meteorite in the anime?
Click to expand...
Arceus was also injured by a meteor. Given Arceus is literally the god of Pokémon, this would mean every Pokémon would be forced to be weaker than that meteor, including universe creators and destroyers (which includes Arceus hilariously enough) and many other Pokémon who have feats far above that meteor.

This is a classic case of the low-end feat (anti-feat) not fitting with even the most basic feats in the verse, like Kratos struggling to cut down a tree when even his most basic feats far outclass it.

An anti-feat is most viable when it fits with the general feats of the verse and only clashes with a very high-end interpretation. The Arceus and Necrozma meteor anti-feats are not such a case.
Banjo77 said:
Lugia
Click to expand...
I actually do think Lugia needs to be looked into, with its ability to fight Hoopa. From what I can tell Hoopa's Varies Tier exists solely to not scale that Lugia to anything else in that movie, and it's kind of silly given that Lugia was chosen across all dimensions from a likely infinite list of legendary Pokémon to face the evil Hoopa and put up a far better fight than the legendaries at the start.

Only issue I see is that the Lugia in the Orange Islands fared worse against the legendary birds than the Hoopa movie's Lugia did against Hoopa, which seems to be a matter of different individuals having different strengths. I mean we already scale a Pikachu to legendaries that should far outclass it.
Banjo77 said:
Dialga, and Palkia.
Click to expand...
The literal creators of time and space, so they're pretty much covered.
 
Last edited:
Random-Helper323 said:
Arceus was also injured by a meteor. Given Arceus is literally the god of Pokémon, this would mean every Pokémon would be forced to be weaker than that meteor, including universe creators and destroyers (which includes Arceus hilariously enough) and many other Pokémon who have feats far above that meteor.

This is a classic case of the low-end feat not fitting with even basic feats in the verse, like Kratos struggling to cut down a tree when even his most basic feats far outclass it.
Click to expand...
This is already addressed on Arceus' profile, specifically in Note 2.

The director of Arceus and the Jewel of Life explicitly stated that Arceus was too powerful for the story to function, so they had to nerf him. They made Arcues incomplete due to missing plates and added a time-slip to create tension. So, the meteor feat isn't indicative of his actual capabilities. It's intentional PIS for the sake of a movie.

If anything, you could reason that Arceus without his plates was weak enough to be harmed by said meteor. I can see a Plateless Arceus scaling in that way, maybe. But I'm not in-depth supporter, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Arceus was also injured by a meteor. Given Arceus is literally the god of Pokémon, this would mean every Pokémon would be forced to be weaker than that meteor, including universe creators and destroyers (which includes Arceus hilariously enough) and many other Pokémon who have feats far above that meteor.

This is a classic case of the low-end feat not fitting with even basic feats in the verse, like Kratos struggling to cut down a tree when even his most basic feats far outclass it.

I actually do think Lugia needs to be looked into, with its ability to fight Hoopa. From what I can tell Hoopa's Varies Tier exists solely to not scale that Lugia to anything else in that movie, and it's kind of silly given that Lugia was chosen across all dimensions from a likely infinite list of legendary Pokémon to face the evil Hoopa and put up a far better fight than the legendaries at the start.

Only issue I see is that the Lugia in the Orange Islands fared worse against the legendary birds than the Hoopa movie's Lugia did against Hoopa, which seems to be a matter of different individuals having different strengths. I mean we already scale a Pikachu to legendaries that should far outclass it.

The literal creators of time and space, so they're pretty much covered.
Click to expand...

The first argument is weak, as not only was it a meteorite, but the simple act of "giving its light" to a planet left Necrozma exhausted.

The Necrozma arc isn't a unique case, but many outliers, though his greatest feat is depicted: from a planetary tier to a non-3A star tier,

he humiliated and subdued Ash and Gladion. The anime makes it clear that Ash is ~50% Zygarde~ and Hoenn legendaries.

And yet, even in the final season, the destruction of a planet or life is presented as a really big deal. Even in XYZ, it was treated as a major event, and it was barely 5B.

The 3A feat doesn't even come from the anime, but from the game.

The only argument for keeping Lugia at that level is even contradictory: it was hinted that it was endangered by three legendary birds, which took hours to affect an archipelago. Even considering Lugia in Journey, that comes with its own problems.

Necrozma's only 3A feat in the anime comes from the game. It doesn't even exist in the anime, and yet everyone (and their mothers) scales from it, even though it makes little sense. And the worst part is that no one scales to Ultra Necrozma in the Sun & Moon anime. Tapu Koko is, in fact, the toughest Pokémon in Alolan, and it barely manages to subdue base Necrozma in its base form, let alone Ultra Necrozma.
 
Banjo77 said:
The 3A feat doesn't even come from the anime, but from the game.
Click to expand...
The games are the primary source material.
Banjo77 said:
The only argument for keeping Lugia at that level is even contradictory: it was hinted that it was endangered by three legendary birds, which took hours to affect an archipelago. Even considering Lugia in Journey, that comes with its own problems.
Click to expand...
Different individuals. The Lugia in the 2000 movie was demonstrably weaker than the one in the Hoopa movie. Not unlike a typically low-tier Pikachu fighting Guzzlord or the Hoenn legendaries...
 
Last edited:
Yeah the anime is obviously derivative of the games, but that doesn’t necessarily make them mutually exclusive. The mainline games are fairly insular and self-contained afaik. Don't know if game spin-offs are treated the same, however.

Anipoke/movies inconsistencies are inevitable because of PIS. Like you'll often see a Legendary Pokémon portrayed with wildly different power levels, like one Legendary being clearly outclassed by another in a later movie in spite of how accurate it may or may not be. As hard as it may be, sometimes it's necessary to take that into account for better or worse.

The most absurd example I can think of regarding Anipoke is how Post-Sinnoh League Ash gets utterly floored by Trip and his Snivy. Y'know, the same Pikachu that stalemated a Latios. Lol.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
This is a classic case of the low-end feat (anti-feat) not fitting with even the most basic feats in the verse, like Kratos struggling to cut down a tree when even his most basic feats far outclass it.
Click to expand...
The "basic" feats of the verse aren't stronger than this meteor. The feat of Necrozma using up all its power to destroy the meteor is also one of the best feats in the series. So if anything, this isn't a "low end anti feat" that doesn't match with the other feats- its a pretty high end feat
Wonder_of_Fantasy said:
The director of Arceus and the Jewel of Life explicitly stated that Arceus was too powerful for the story to function, so they had to nerf him. They made Arcues incomplete due to missing plates and added a time-slip to create tension. So, the meteor feat isn't indicative of his actual capabilities. It's intentional PIS for the sake of a movie.
Click to expand...
The director statement doesn't have anything to do with the meteor feat. Arceus had all his plates when he was hit by the meteor, so he wasn't nerfed in that scene

Random-Helper323 said:
The games are the primary source material.
Click to expand...
The feats are different in the different canons however
 
Wonder_of_Fantasy said:
Correct
Click to expand...

Kunihiko Yuyama, the director of the film, said, "There is an image and setting of an omniscient and omnipotent being who created the world," and there is an episode in which he struggled with the scale of this image when introducing it into the story.
As part of his efforts to express this image, he chose Akihiro Miwa as the voice actor, which had a tremendous impact, and his excellent performance, coupled with the release of the film, led to the widespread use of the term "Akihiro Miwa" or "Miwaseus" as a description of Arceus.

According to director Yuyama, Arceus was too powerful for the scenario to work in its original setting, so he decided to create drama by making it incomplete with missing plates, and to make it more convincing by including a time-slip sequence to solve the problem. The director said that the original setting was too strong for the scenario to work, so he created drama by making the plates incomplete and missing.
Click to expand...

He was nerfed by having his plates taken away, he wasn't nerfed in the scene where he was hit by the meteor. They removed the plates so that other Pokemon could hurt him
 
Someone he caught her 4th pokemon

9793759-20250717_145144.jpg
 
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From the description:
"Get ready for Pokémon Presents with DJ Pikachu!"
& yes, that is the official premiere link. (Or you can use Pokemon's Twitch Channel.)
LESS THAN ONE HOUR TO GO!!! HYPE!!!
 

 
Welll, looks like Legends Z-A might have some potentially interesting ramifications.
 
Some random Youtube thumbnail really spoiled me on Mega Dragonite like 10 mins before the Presents started lol

At least actually good trainer customisation and the return of a character as minor as Mable were hype enough to come out a bit satisfied. Rogue Mega Pokémon also look interesting, the battles against them kinda remind me of the boss fights from Arceus.
 
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