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Pokémon Creation Mythos CRT (Type 2 Concepts inside)

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Adem Warlock69 said:
Giratina is the Distortion world
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It's likely talking about avatar Giratina otherwise the statement wouldn't make any sense. Assuming that the imgur translation is indeed the correct one.
 
"A Legendary Pokémon that lives in the back side of the world, where space and time are twisted and there is no concept of time or space."

This is a alternative translation I got from a website, not Google, translation, though as previously said Giratina is the Distortion World, and the Twisted Space and Time could refer to the bizarre nature of the Distortion World which has the terrain be twisted with the gravity being inconsistent, trees appearing and disappearing randomly, and floating rocks able to move entirely on the own power, which could still be said even with a place that lacks the Concept of Space and Tine.
 
There was dialogue by Cynthia stating that if Giratina dies, so does the Distortion World. However, keep in mind that she may be referring to the physical avatar and not the true form of said Pokemon.
 
@Dragopentling Not only that, but a few sentences later Cynthia said that what Cyrus said was a lie:

"Don't believe his lies. It's not possible that a Pokémon can make the world disappear. The world awaited your birth. Not only yours, either. The Pokémon with you. The people close to you. All the Pokémon and people were born because they have a part in the world. I'm convinced of that. Giratina won't go out of existence. The Distortion World won't disappear. Our world won't disappear, either."

However, you could say that this was Cynthia being negationist about all of that lol
 
Executor N0 said:
@Dragopentling Not only that, but a few sentences later Cynthia said that what Cyrus said was a lie:
"Don't believe his lies. It's not possible that a Pokémon can make the world disappear. The world awaited your birth. Not only yours, either. The Pokémon with you. The people close to you. All the Pokémon and people were born because they have a part in the world. I'm convinced of that. Giratina won't go out of existence. The Distortion World won't disappear. Our world won't disappear, either."

However, you could say that this was Cynthia being negationist about all of that lol
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At worst, I think it'd be more like you can no longer enter the Distortion World if you get rid of the avatar, not a case of the actual world disappearing, cause keep in mind, the Distortion World was supposed to be flip side of the coin with the normal world.
 
Dragopentling said:
There was dialogue by Cynthia stating that if Giratina dies, so does the Distortion World. However, keep in mind that she may be referring to the physical avatar and not the true form of said Pokemon.
Click to expand...
It was Cyrus, not Cynthia
 
  • "Giratina is stated to have no concept of time and space"
I had a very strong sense of deja-vu regarding this statement, and it turned out my inner senses were correct; I had, in fact, seen and addressed this statement several months ago, and it's out of context.

  • A legendary Pokemon that lives in the "broken world" where space and time are twisted and there is no concept of time or space, which is behind the world.
The statement is referring to the Distortion World, not Giratina himself, and it's not talking about the literal concepts of space and time either, considering it talks about space and time being distorted.

The kanji translated as "concept" is µªéÕ┐Á, which can also mean "notion", "feeling" or "idea. Likewise, the word 'concept' itself is often used to refer to the way humans/people perceive things and conceptualize them, as opposed to a literal abstract form (an example is a god/immortal entity saying something like "Humans have no concept of their own mortality"). The context clearly dictates that this is how the word is being used.

tl;dr Not evidence of anything.

  • Giratina embodies the Distortion World and gets Type 1 from it.
Giratina was actually banished to the Distortion World, as per almost every Pokédex entry.

  • It was banished for its violence. It silently gazed upon the old world from the Distortion World.
The Jewel of Life movie supports this, with Arceus being stated to have created the CT's realms, which consist of Dialga's time dimension, Palkia's spatial dimension and the Distortion World.

Even if this were the case, Cyrus theorizes that Giratina's death would mean the death of the Distortion World, so there is really no evidence that 'embodying' the Distortion World allows Giratina to resurrect or regenerate once its avatar is destroyed.
 
They created matter, not time and space. Arceus was the one who did that:
  • Hmm... The spirit came to be, and from it, time and space were bor...That seems to point to Legendary Dialga, the Pokémon of time, and Palkia, the Pokémon of space...And they lead back to Arceus, the Pokémon that made them arise
Dialga and Palkia are embodiments of Arceus' creation, and the trio was created in order to bind time and space:

  • The Original One breathed alone before the universe came. When the universe was created, its shards became this Plate. The power of defeated giants infuses this Plate. Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One. Three beings were born to bind time and space. Two make matter, and three make spirit, shaping the world."
Okay, that's definitely not Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, that is Type 3.
 
Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One. Three beings were born to bind time and space.

If you read the sentence just before it then it would be obvious who they were talking about, also I think the sentence about being beings of Time and Space is more evidence that they are in fact Time and Space.
 
The whole being Space and Time thing wasn't about Type 2, even I've decided I was probably wrong at this point, it was referring to the other Abstract Existence argument about Dialga and Palkia not being Space/Time.
 
Okay, a bit off topic, but based off the 10th movie, shouldn't Palkia be noted to have passive (or at least semi-passive) Space / Matter Manipulation, which may technically count as EE?

sorry if I'm corrected later.
 
Dragopentling said:
Okay, a bit off topic, but based off the 10th movie, shouldn't Palkia be noted to have passive (or at least semi-passive) Space / Matter Manipulation, which may technically count as EE?
sorry if I'm corrected later.
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That isn't just in the 10th movie either. In the manga, even casual punches exchanged between Dialga and Palkia had an AoE EE effect. They definitely have EE.
 
They do definitely have EE, specifically they have it on their profiles, it's more the powers while accepted are never mentioned in threads.

They don't have a resistance though.
 
Everything12 said:
They do definitely have EE, specifically they have it on their profiles, it's more the powers while accepted are never mentioned in threads.
They don't have a resistance though.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure they have resistance or immunity to each other's EE, though.
 
They should do, given it was passively affecting stuff further away than the two were away from each other.
 
How much more do we need to discuss? We gotta make sure everything's practically foolproof and set in stone here.
 
Dragopentling said:
How much more do we need to discuss? We gotta make sure everything's practically foolproof and set in stone here.
Click to expand...
Roughly everything.
 
Roughly everything.

Does this include Immunity to Soul Manipulation, are you also against that?
 
Everything12 said:
Roughly everything.
Click to expand...
Does this include Immunity to Soul Manipulation, are you also against that?
Tbf, I'm pretty sure he doubts EVERYTHING offered here, given the responses so far.
 
Have you reached a conclusion here?
 
Type 2 Concepts are unanimously disagreed to and Soul Immunity is pretty much unanimously agreed to, Abstract Existence Type 1 has quite a few people agree to its points though it does have one or two who disagree with it.
 
What do the staff members think?
 
As for Type 1 AE, Cal and Executor agree. Kep and PaChi on the other hand, disagree. Also should we count PaChi as a staff member here? Because he used to be a discussion mod but then retired.
 
Ex should be enough given his expertise with Digimon, a far more in-depth verse. If I got him, that's good enough. Kep and PC will fall in line.
 
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