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Pokémon Creation Mythos CRT (Type 2 Concepts inside)

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Where does Executor say "I agree with type 1 AE"? I don't see that anywhere in this thread. He merely states he thinks they should have some form of AE because of what they are but never a type.
 
Yes, but the thing is that just because YOU think the the points don't lead the the conclusion of Abstract Existence does not mean that they don't. As other people see these points and think it does lead the Abstract Existence that leads to the possibility that your view of it not being Abstract Existence is wrong, though I do consent that it could be contrary and that they are wrong and you are right, but that's where the number of people come in, the more people who believe something is correct based off the evidence provided the more likely that interpretation is correct. After all what makes your opinion more valid then everyone else's.
 
Well what do you suggest then, we just ignore everyone else's opinions because you think your right. Both sides gave their opinions for and against then people vote based on their opinion of the evidence given, that's how this works.
 
And only one denied and are we just to ignore everyone else's opinions because they don't happen to be staff as if they don't matter and they can't make a interpretation based off evidence given.
 
Executor thinks they should have some form of AE but he never says he agrees with type 1, if you read over his post.

So what you need to do is contact more staff such as Ultima and etc.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Executor thinks they should have some form of AE but he never says he agrees with type 1, if you read over his post.
So what you need to do is contact more staff such as Ultima and etc.
Click to expand...
Doesn't mean those members will immediately respond. I've already contacted a bunch of staff for a separate revision thread, but only like one has responded so far. We're not going with no Type AE 1 just because you alone object to Type 1 AE and to us already having more people agreeing to it. There's no good reason for entitlement here.
 
Abstract seems reasonable off the bat, but this thread's quite long so I won't be able to read arguments from both sides right now.
 
Oh god all the comments...

For now, having only read the OP, I agree with type 2 concept and sleep immunity, and am neutral over type 1 abstraction.

Will try to read through the whole thing.
 
I, too, have only read OP.

I think that's mighty weak evidence for Abstract Existence Type 1, count me as a solid no. Resistance to soul manip by right of not ostensibly having souls seems tenuously okay and concept manip seems universally rejected.
 
Thank you to all staff who are helping out.

Is somebody experienced willing to write a summary of the arguments here to help them out to make a decision?
 
I can summarise my arguments but I'd rather not summarise the other sides as I might show bias so I'll let one of them or a neutral person do that.

Concept Type 2 is completely rejected and is based off a erroneous idea of what it takes to get the classification, Immunity to Soul Manipulation hasn't really had anything argued for or against it beyond what is in the OP, that the Lake Guardians created the Spirit which is the Pokémon name for a Soul and the Creation Trio predate them and the creation of Spirit.

Abstract Existence is where most of the arguments are, the arguments for is that the Creation Trio true forms actively created and thus predate Matter, as well as predate the Lake Guardians and their Spirit, added on top of their true forms being the Space/Time/Anti-Matter (With Anti-Matter not being the physical substance but more a opposite of Space-Time) of the World, and that fact that these aspects are Conceptual, makes it that the only way to affect the Trio's true form is to affect the Concepts that they are. Thus Abstract Existence Type 1.
 
Dragopentling said:
Doesn't mean those members will immediately respond. I've already contacted a bunch of staff for a separate revision thread, but only like one has responded so far. We're not going with no Type AE 1 just because you alone object to Type 1 AE and to us already having more people agreeing to it. There's no good reason for entitlement here.
Click to expand...
Having more people agreeing than disagreeing is not enough to guarantee that the ability is gonna get added and vice-versa. Because people can be biased.
 
Having more people agreeing than disagreeing is not enough to guarantee that the ability is gonna get added and vice-versa. Because people can be biased.

Absolutely wrong. In every CRT I've seen, we've always used a voting system.
 
You'd further the tension between blue name and green name if you went that route.

A lot of the better supporting evidence for Abstract Existence isn't in the OP, no offense to the original staff evaluations.
 
Some people were saying their non-physical depictions are just Non-Corporeality.

Some were arguing it doesn't have enough evidence and they need a direct statement.

One was that Giratina's avatar would cause the Distortion World to fade which doesn't really prove embodying it.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Number of people is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
It is relevant when this is a voting based system unless electing a president is also appeal to popularity. Voting isn't an argument either, it's a consensus. It's not fallacious if there isn't an argument being made because I didn't remotely claim it was true because the majority believes it. All I said was that more people agreed with it.
 
PlozAlcachaz said:
Some people were saying their non-physical depictions are just Non-Corporeality.
Click to expand...
This I would counter by the fact that Dialga and Palkia are normally described as Beings of Time and Space and them being the Time/Space of the World, which shows that their True Form is not simply incorporeal but directly tied to the very Abstract Concepts that they embody, and thus affecting them would require affecting the Abstractions.

Some were arguing it doesn't have enough evidence and they need a direct statement.

I would say theirs enough evidence to show their true forms both are a Abstraction and thus can only be effected through the Abstraction.

One was that Giratina's avatar would cause the Distortion World to fade which doesn't really prove embodying it.

Can I get the complete quote for this statement, theirs something I want to check though I might be wrong.
 
Things can predate physical matter and not be purely abstract.
 
I can't see a direct quote just him talking about the statement.

Also the stuff about predating Physical Matter is additional evidence on top of the other evidence, its not the only thing, it's just used to show that they don't have physical forms ontop of the statements that describe the embodiment of their Abstraction.
 
You can also represent a concept without being purely abstract.
 
They embody the Concept in that they themselves are the Concepts, as in the Concepts of Space/Time is their True Form and thus the only way to affect them would be to affect the Abstractions which they are.
 
Wait a minute, the counterarguments feel misleading. Doesn't predating the foundations for said concepts usually count as Type 1 AE? Also, removing Giratina's avatar would "destroy the Distortion World", but there's nothing to say such besides eliminating easy/normal access to the Distortion World. Unless there's not enough supporting statements to drown out that one misleading statement in Platinum, the latter cannot be considered the more superior judgment.
 
Plsu the Distortion World as mentioned somewhere above is actually a Distortion World for every different Universe, so it could just be a case of destroying that Universe Avatar destroys that Universe Distortion World and doesn't affect the greater whole that is the True Giratina.

Edit: Also slightly unrelated to the current conversation, but in Platinum Cyrus very specifically says that the Distortion World was created by Giratina, and as far as I know, no mentions of its banishment mentions being banished to the Distortion World specifically, so I say it's likely that Giratina was banished outside of the Pokémon World by Arceus, but where it was banished to their was nothing because the Distortion World hadn't been created yet and then Giratina proceeded to create the Distortion World itself.
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
> Edit: Also slightly unrelated to the current conversation, but in Platinum Cyrus very specifically says that the Distortion World was created by Giratina, and as far as I know, no mentions of its banishment mentions being banished to the Distortion World specifically, so I say it's likely that Giratina was banished outside of the Pokémon World by Arceus, but where it was banished to their was nothing because the Distortion World hadn't been created yet and then Giratina proceeded to create the Distortion World itself.

Cynthia "very specifically" says that Giratina was banished to the already-existing Distortion World. Therefore, this is incorrect.

Cyrus is the same guy who states that defeating Giratina would make the Distortion World disappear, so the Distortion World can't be used to give Giratina anything.

No offense, but this is really just a lot of speculation.
 
She says a World without Sun, that could very well apply to the Nothingness outside of the Pokémon World before the Distortion World, or it could apply to the Distortion World itself not having a Sun because Giratina couldn't create it for whatever reason.

That probably further proves my point, because if the Distortion World existed before Giratina was banished to it why would it disappear if Giratina was defeated, unless it created and was tied to that World. And Cyrus opinion is probably the most trusted on issues regarding the Creation Trio, probably even more then Cynthia, considering how much he knew about the Space-Time Duo as well as the Lake Guardian, with how much he explains the Distortion World and Giratina its very likely he has a good idea of how the World works when he was in their, and its likely from a meta perspective that Game Freak was absolutely given factual information about the Distortion World with how much he said and how sure he was.

And yes I know the Distortion World wasn't destroyed when you caught Giratina or made them faint but that's because the Player was very specifically trying to calm Giratina by battling them not killing them.
 
Giratina being banned to the "nothingness outside the universe" is headcanon and suggested nowhere in the entire series. It is extremely clear what Cynthia meant there. No offense, but I am not interested in arguing your personal interpretation of Pokémon lore, only what is explicitly stated.

> That probably further proves my point, because if the Distortion World existed before Giratina was banished to it why would it disappear if Giratina was defeated

"Evil" characters being banished to other worlds, warping them into their liking, and their death having disastrous effects across said realms is not that uncommon of an idea to find out there.

"Giratina doesn't gain any sort of Abstract Existence from the Distortion World, no matter what" is the point I'm trying to make, regardless of how you interpret the subject.
 
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