Pikmin Verse Scaling Chain

[Flashlight237]

Well, it seems we can accurately measure the power of the Pikmin verse now. Let's get started here.

Let's start with the lore. This is one of the verses where the Varies tier applies, specifically for the captains. A common feature of the verse is the Captains crash-landing, which results in them either flying out of their ships (like in Pikmin 2, 3, and 4) or getting themselves airbagged (like in Pikmin 1), and often results in them being dazed regardless of their survivability. Olimar even dies from one in the bad ending of Pikmin. One such crash-landing is directly calculated at 22.6 joules: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Smashor/Pikmin_Captains_fall_from_space

The Pikmin verse is one of the few fictional verses where size actually matters. I say that because practically every creature that is carnivorous can eat Pikmin, generally making Pikmin the weakest link since they get eaten quickly. About the only creature that doesn't one-shot a Pikmin by eating it is the equally-sized Scornet: the smallest enemy in the Pikmin series not counting the Ujadani and having a size similar to a Pikmin itself. Every other Pikmin enemy, even Bulborb larvae, just went for it, even creatures with more refined tastes like the Bug-Eyed Crawmad. Size plays a large role in what creatures can take and how strong their attacks are. Small enemies (enemies the size of a Water Dumple and smaller) can't take a hit from a Pikmin 2 Bomb Rock (29.2 joules: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Pikmin_Calc:_Bomb_Rocks_in_Pikmin_2_and_4 ) or a Cannon Beetle Larva boulder (33 joules: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Pikmin_2:_Cannon_Beetle_Larvae_Boulders ). They can, however, eat Pikmin, whose durability is 27.6% of a single joule: See Here

Medium-sized creatures and large-sized regular enemies can take hits from a Pikmin 2 Bomb Rock or a Cannon Beetle Larva boulder and survive, but they can't survive a Pikmin 4 Bomb Rock (153.5 to 307 joules; full range accepted: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Pikmin_Calc:_Bomb_Rocks_in_Pikmin_2_and_4 ). A Bulborb had performed a similar feat in the form of throwing a car wheel rim, but comparing that to the way they act in the games, that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Bosses, on the other hand, CAN survive Pikmin 4 bomb rocks (although they are less likely to do so if they eat them), and the Waterwraith itself can one-shot a Fiery Bulblax (which falls under the same umbrella as Bulborbs and Fiery Blowhogs) just by bumping into it, as shown here:

Durability-wise, bosses are cut-and-dry, but AP-wise, while Waterwraiths, Sovereign Bulblaxes, and Armored Cannon Beetles can really mess shit up as they are the largest bosses in the games, weaker bosses like the Burrowing Snagret, Giant Breadbug, and Porquillon can only dream to have any of the power creatures like the Waterwraith do. The Arctic Cannon Beetle, a species of Armored Cannon Beetle, has physicals matching Bomb Rocks at 161 to 228 joules. While the calc isn't evaluated yet, I think the fact that bosses can survive Pikmin 4 bomb rocks make the feat up to board: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Arctic_Cannon_Beetle_Casually_Destroys_Icicle

Athlete level, it seems, is the highest normative strength for the creatures of the game. The only two things that break this rule are Armored Cannon Beetle boulders (5.7 kJ: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/Pikmin_4:_Armored_Cannon_Beetle ) and the Ancient Sirehound (41 to 136.4 kJ; lower end recommended: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Flashlight237/SPOILER:_Giant_Dog_Slams_Stalactite ). The former occurs on impact with a perpendicular surface and everything that would get hit by it only takes on the squishy part (the part that isn't 9-C). The latter... Bro, it's scientific name describes the Ancient Sirehound as a God; that thing ain't normal!: https://www.pikminwiki.com/Ancient_Sirehound

When breaking a stalactite, the Ancient Sirehound would stun itself it charging into one, but it does just fine if it instead jump-attacks into one. Just something I'd point out.

Now the Varies tier... Applies to the Captains. In their case, it would be their durability as their AP actually sucks, only being comparable in AP to that of a single Pikmin. In their case, it would range from 10-C (from being damaged by smaller enemies) to 9-B (from taking hits from the Ancient Sirehound). Also Oatchi because, why not? Oatchi's slightly better than the Captains in regards that, while the Captains are forced to end their daily expedition after being knocked out, Oatchi can get back up after a few seconds of healing himself.

Now, for the scaling chain...

AP

10-C: Smaller enemies (Up to Water Dumple), Captains, Pikmin
10-C+: Medium and large enemies (Cannon Beetle Larvae, Bulborbs, Fiery Blowhogs); weaker bosses (Porquillons, Burrowing Snagrets), Purple Pikmin SPECIFICALLY when thrown
10-A to 9-C (average 10-A+): Stronger bosses (Waterwraith, Armored Cannon Beetles, Sovereign Bulblaxes), Oatchi when charging
9-C: Armored Cannon Beetle boulders
9-B: Ancient Sirehound

Durability

10-C: Smaller enemies (Up to Water Dumple), Captains, Pikmin
10-C+: Medium and large enemies (Cannon Beetle Larvae, Bulborbs, Fiery Blowhogs)
10-A to 9-C (average 10-A+): Bosses, Spotty Bulbear, Fiery Bulblax
9-B: Ancient Sirehound (only eaten Bomb Rocks can ignore this)
Varies: Captains, Oatchi

So yeah, there you have it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

For the durability of the Captains, I might recommend using Inverse Square Law.

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

Shouldn't the Pikmin have a varies AP tier based on numbers? Their whole gimmick is being unstoppable in numbers.

 

[Flashlight237]

For the durability of the Captains, I might recommend using Inverse Square Law.

I think that's situational. Against small enemies and being directly on a bomb rock? No. Against large enemies? Yes. Against rocket accidents? Don't bother; just like car crashes, it ain't worth it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think that's situational. Against small enemies and being directly on a bomb rock? No. Against large enemies? Yes. Against rocket accidents? Don't bother; just like car crashes, it ain't worth it.

That's more or less what I meant.

 

[Flashlight237]

That's more or less what I meant.

Unless there's a way to directly measure the jaw of a Bulborb (given it should serve as a baseline for mid-sized and large mobs) given videos aren't likely to give accurate results in that regard, I don't think there's a way to use that right now.

 

[AParticularInduvidial]

Should we calculate the energy the Ice Pikmin have to freeze large bodies of water instantly too? I feel like that'll net a rather neat result for the Pikmin possibly?

 

[Lou_change]

Olimar even dies from one in the bad ending of Pikmin

I mean there is a cut from night to day it might just be oxygen poisoning
otherwise agree

 

[Flashlight237]

Should we calculate the energy the Ice Pikmin have to freeze large bodies of water instantly too? I feel like that'll net a rather neat result for the Pikmin possibly?

I think in that case, that's just a pretty situational passive hax at work since all they do is vibe in the puddles they freeze, and even then, you need a certain amount. When attacking, a lone Ice Pikmin needs 30 hits to freeze a Bulborb. Without their ice hax, Ice Pikmin are literally as weak as Winged Pikmin (who only have half the AP of a Blue or Yellow Pikmin).

 

[Lou_change]

Bump

 

[Flashlight237]

So I went out of my way to see how many hits it takes to destroy a dirt wall in Pikmin 4 as preparation for a calculation. Oatchi took down one phase out of three in a single rush. A Blue Pikmin, on the other hand, took 267 hits to destroy a single phase of the wall.

 

[Flashlight237]

Well, I modified the scaling chain slightly. Oatchi's charge can hit upwards 10-A from breaking icicles, which the Arctic Cannon Beetle can already do by just walking around. Problem is it's prone to inconsistency because while Oatchi's charge is survivable by something as soft-bodied as a Joustmite, only the bosses and two select large enemies (Spotty Bulbear and Fiery Bulblax as long as they don't eat them) can survive Pikmin 4's bomb rocks, which has identical AP on average. It's best to chalk up Oatchi's charge as "Athlete Level+ Environmental Destruction via Charging". Also, I checked to see if the beetle can destroy those AC-looking metal bars that cause caves to freeze up and they couldn't.

The Armored Cannon Beetle can take about 7 Bomb Rocks with its armor open, yet when it's armor is fully covering it, the Armored Cannon Beetle can take 20, so it's armor is about 3x as durable as the beetle itself.

 

[Lou_change]

It's best to chalk up Oatchi's charge as "Athlete Level+ Environmental Destruction via Charging".

Why not just say it is an outlier would calcing the destruction of the water wraith’s rollers be anything of note