Piccolo and Android 17 Rematch

[CiscoTheSoto]

Piccolo vs Android 17

• Battle location: Indestructible Planet
• Both in-character
• DBS: Super Hero Base Piccolo prior to having his potential unlocked and Tournament of Power Android 17 are used

Piccolo: 1 (@JaxWolf4)

Android 17: 3 (@Gilad_Hyperstar, @jojo123, @Mickey1940)

Cell Max absorbs 17 again: 1 (@Omegas03)

 

[JaxWolf4]

I have Piccolo taking this low-mid diff. He squared up to Gamma 2(did get destroyed but could react and didn't get 1 shot) which should be over MUI TOP Goku narratively speaking. 17 is barely suppressed Jiren level.

Pretty much all of the TOP characters get power cliffed.

 

[Omegas03]

Piccolo is considered Current Base Saiyan (or in-between Base and SSJ) tier from all what was seen in the movie while 17 scales to a Pre UI ToP SSB Goku

I think Piccolo MAY hold an slight AP and skill advantage. 17 still has the barriers which completely outclass his normal durability plus potentially self destruction +(which I doubt he'll really use in this situation), and he can also outlast Piccolo via infinite stamina.

feeling like a very 50/50 match up to me, I'll go for Incon until more arguments are made.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I think Piccolo is at a pretty big disadvantage in AP. Piccolo scales probably to like either Base or SSJ Saiyans like he did before in DBS, but the main issue is that we don't know how strong Piccolo became since then

Android 17 scales to SSB Goku and Vegeta in the ToP, but again, we have no clue how they compare to their strength in the movie, so it's up in the air

Piccolo should likely win if it was Ultimate Piccolo as he's at least SSB level by scaling to the Gammas

 

[Omegas03]

Post ToP Base is not much below or likely in the same ballpark as Pre UIS SSB.

Post ToP SSB > UIO1 > SSB Vegito

While Base Vegito > Black arc SSBs. So Current Base Saiyans >> post Black arc SSBs as well.

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Post ToP Base is not much below or likely in the same ballpark as Pre UIS SSB.

Post ToP SSB > UIO1 > SSB Vegito

While Base Vegito > Black arc SSBs. So Current Base Saiyans >> post Black arc SSBs as well.

Where do you get the idea that base Vegito is stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta? The fact that Vegito immediately chose to go SSB against Fused Zamasu in the anime goes to show his base state wasn't enough to fight on even grounds against Fused Zamasu. No statement was ever made which proved this either.

Honestly, I've also been against the idea that base Gogeta was stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta too. No statement was ever made which officially stated this, and his performance never indicated this either. The most we saw of base Gogeta was dodging a few of Broly's energy blasts and parry some of his weaker blasts, which SSB Goku and Vegeta were capable of doing. It's only when Gogeta became a SSJ that he could fight and eventually overpower SSJ Broly, so it's only his SSJ state I'd say is stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Where do you get the idea that base Vegito is stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta? The fact that Vegito immediately chose to go SSB against Fused Zamasu in the anime goes to show his base state wasn't enough to fight on even grounds against Fused Zamasu. No statement was ever made which proved this either.

Fused Zamasu was close to Vegito Blue's level though. And according to Vados : "The fusion is more than the sum of its parts and uts power multiplied by tens of times", referring to Kale and Caulifla's strongest forms as they were both in SSJ2 when they merged

Same applies to Vegito. It's heavily implied that even in Base, Vegito is way stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta (and it's outright confirmed in the manga). Even in Z, Vegito was way above SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta when he first merged

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Fused Zamasu was close to Vegito Blue's level though. And according to Vados : "The fusion is more than the sum of its parts and uts power multiplied by tens of times", referring to Kale and Caulifla's strongest forms as they were both in SSJ2 when they merged

Don't believe Vados was referring to that. I think that the DBS anime team just forgot about the fusion rules and that anyone who fuses as a SSJ stays a SSJ in the fusion.

Same applies to Vegito. It's heavily implied that even in Base, Vegito is way stronger than SSB Goku and Vegeta (and it's outright confirmed in the manga). Even in Z, Vegito was way above SSJ3 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta when he first merged

In the manga, Fused Zamasu was caught off-guard by Vegito's attack. Furthermore, Vegito immediately turned into a SSB to fight Fused Zamasu, just like in the anime, so I don't believe that base Vegito would be stronger than SSB Goku or Vegeta, and same with Gogeta.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Don't believe Vados was referring to that. I think that the DBS anime team just forgot about the fusion rules and that anyone who fuses as a SSJ stays a SSJ in the fusion.

That has nothing to do with what I said. And Vados was referring to Base Kefla's power

In the manga, Fused Zamasu was caught off-guard by Vegito's attack. Furthermore, Vegito immediately turned into a SSB to fight Fused Zamasu, just like in the anime, so I don't believe that base Vegito would be stronger than SSB Goku or Vegeta, and same with Gogeta.

Just because he went Blue doesn't mean much. Vegito was toying with Zamasu the entire time, especially in the manga, where Zamasu couldn't even hope to react to his attack

Zamasu was also prepared to attack them when Vegito blasted him in Base, and the blast was too quick for Zamas to react despite him noticing the fusion happening and preparing to beat them

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

That has nothing to do with what I said. And Vados was referring to Base Kefla's power

Yea, I remember

Just because he went Blue doesn't mean much. Vegito was toying with Zamasu the entire time, especially in the manga, where Zamasu couldn't even hope to react to his attack

I mean, kinda, but Fused Zamasu could still hold his own. Besides, Vegito himself said he needed to finish the fight quickly, which is why he went to SSB in the first place instead of SSJ or SSG, at least in the manga.

Zamasu was also prepared to attack them when Vegito blasted him in Base, and the blast was too quick for Zamas to react despite him noticing the fusion happening and preparing to beat them

He was caught off-guard because he assumed it was base Goku and Vegeta, and also because they were hiding in a building. If he'd seen their transformation, I think Zamasu could've reacted to that.

I forgot why we're even having this argument in this thread. This is what happens sometimes, and it pisses me off: we start debating about powerscaling to the point that it has nothing to do with the fighters of this match: Android 17 and Piccolo.

Anyway, Piccolo's listed as Low 2-C in his base for this key, while Android 17's 3-A and Low 2-C with his barriers, so Piccolo should have the AP advantage. It all comes down to skill here.

 

[Vizer04]

I forgot why we're even having this argument in this thread. This is what happens sometimes, and it pisses me off: we start debating about powerscaling to the point that it has nothing to do with the fighters of this match: Android 17 and Piccolo.

This is so true and so frustrating sometimes

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

This is so true and so frustrating sometimes

Glad you agree. I feel like this becomes especially problematic with DBS and the Buu Saga characters. I think original Dragon Ball, early DBZ and everything pre-Buu had more consistent powerscaling, or at least less characters to compare power with and less transformations to deal with the multiplier bullshit.

 

[jojo123]

Android 17 FRA

 

[Mickey1940]

Base Piccolo can't break 17's barriers, which can be spamed and cost zero stamina, and can be projecte out of his body and can surround Piccolo's entire body preventing him from moving

17 wins

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

Bump

 

[Mickey1940]

I feel like some things have changed since this thread was made, but I don't think much has changed

17's barrier was strong enough to resist a blast from Golden Frieza, SSGSS Goku and Vegeta, Ultimate Gohan, and Anilaza all at the same time. I don't think Base Piccolo has gotten strong enough to be at that level

If Piccolo has no answer to 17's barriers, then he just loses since 17 can spam those with his infinite stamina and outlast him.