Phoenix Wright downgrade

[Jinsye]

Alright, let's work on this. Ace Attorney is one of my favorite series so it saddens me to have the page so full of actual horseshit.

Standard Equipment
He should not have any of that in his standard equipment, they're optional equipment at absolute best. Even then they're just evidence and we don't give Sherlock Holmes every piece of evidence he has examined as optional equipment.

Anime Feats
Why the hell do we do this? We don't take anime filler feats for every other profile besides this one, why? What makes Phoenix so special? It's just an adaptation, not a sequel, not a canon retelling, it's best to go by the 100% canon source for Ace Attorney, the games. Not composite every appearance he's been in.

Unjustified Abilities
Explosion Manipulation should go, Godot's mask exploding is only for visual effect showing that they've broken him. Phoenix doesn't have the power to spontaneously combust things by pointing at them, and if so that would've been hella useful against Von Karma.

Soul Manipulation needs to go too, the circumstances behind it are weird anyways and it's definitely not something he can use in combat. At best it's type 2 Purification, not straight up soul manipulation as he was just removing a ghost from Maya's body.

Conclusion
Phoenix's profile is wanked and all his wins needs to be removed

 

[Jackythejack]

Jesus, all of his wins, you think?

I agree with them He removal of the anime stuff as well as changing the equipment to optional. Soul manipulation needs to screw off as well yeah.

 

[Jinsye]

Eh, not all of them. King vs. Phoenix can stay and maybe TMQ but I haven't checked that one.

 

[Jackythejack]

TMQ was due to soul hax because they bloodlusted Phoenix.

 

[Jinsye]

oh

that needs to be removed then.

How many matches of Phoenix's are won through just something like sheer AP? Because those are the only valid ones (besides King, that one is valid either way)

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Agreed 100%.

 

[Jackythejack]

Uh. Most of them are won by considerable range advantage brought on by...well, wind and explosions.

Pong Paddle lost but that's an AP stomp.

I guess Thor could stay and so could maybe a few of them but most of the reason why he won was range being a big factor. Becuase he mostly fought people without range

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Wind blowing out is also from the anime, so that would have to go as well.

 

[Jackythejack]

Yeah. Wind, explosions, and maybe light? I know there are sometimes flashes of light when you yell objection. St least, I think so. That could be dramatic effect all the same.

 

[Jinsye]

Wind, Light, and probably Aura is from the anime, so those all have to go.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Anime feats do not contradict the games and are official.

If anything, we should separate the game's feats to the anime feats in different forms.

Not that it really matters that much since Game Phoenix still has somewhat weaker 9-B feats and bboth soul hax and explosion manip, wind and light are anime exclusive.

 

[Jinsye]

Soul hax is still bullshit and explosion manipulation is just for dramatic effect, we don't give people electricity manipulation for lightning striking when they say a spooky word.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Doesn't matter. It still appears in tthe game and his tiering won't be decreased even if the anime feats are removed.

What's worse, in tthe game, he does the soul hax on his ow, without Mia even needing to be present.

 

[Jackythejack]

Okay it doesn't decrease his tier but it removes abilities and that's just as important? A CRT still has to be made.

Also that's more purification, if you're talking about him exorcising Maya(?)

 

[Jinsye]

Taking the context of the feat, Phoenix was removing Dahlia from Maya's body, which perfectly fits type 2 Purification of removing evil spirits from others. He can't rip out a person's soul on his own.

 

[Buttersamuri]

It was brought up Phoenix just carries the evidence around during his cases. Which is why it's standard. It should be fine

Anime feats contradict nothing. No. It's the same exact story. And was fine when brought up on early thread. Same story. Just animated. Much like we use manga and anime for other characters

Explosion is just an effect is wrong. It leaves a smoke dust in the actual courtroom. Watch the clip. Soul manipulation you have no evidence to support that. The fact of the case was Phoenix was the only one who could have been responsible for removing her soul. That's soul manipulation.

 

[Ted_Ed]

There is no reason to deduce purification since no dialogue in the entire scene in either game or anime that implies Dahlia being evil is a factor.


Regardless, if the anime feats are not at least separated from the profile into its own form, i then demand all anime forms and profiles to be deleted.

Like the Alita, Akira, Sailor Moon profiles, etc.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I agree with the op

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Can we play the cross-examination theme while this is debated?

 

[Ted_Ed]

Reasoning?

 

[Ted_Ed]

Also, Maya wanted Dahlia inside of her body to keep her from accomplishing her plan.

Play the games before making CRTs.

This alone proves Phoenix can remove souls even against thhe host's will.


If Maya wanted Dahlia out, she could have expelled her out herself earlier on the trial.

 

[Jackythejack]

How about you stop being so aggressive and calm yourself?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Regardless, if the anime feats are not at least separated from the profile into its own form, i then demand all anime forms and profiles to be deleted.

Like the Alita, Akira, Sailor Moon profiles, etc.

No. All of those have major differences over the source material. Phoenix Wright's anime is literally the game but more dramatic.

Also, you don't have the right to "demand" anything, so stop that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

For the record I agree with the downgrade. A lot of this smells like gag feats and jokes rather than stuff he can actually do.

 

[Torlikoff]

I agree with the downgrade as well, don't really have anything to add.

 

[Buttersamuri]

No. All of those have major differences over the source material. Phoenix Wright's anime is literally the game but more dramatic.

Also, you don't have the right to "demand" anything, so stop that.


The anime is just made to be the game but animated. Same stories. Same cases. Same people. We start separating this guy. Might as well go to 90 percent of anime characters with Manga and anime.

 

[Ted_Ed]

None of the feats the anime does are played for a joke.

And several profiles with the "Anime" form follow the exact same plot, like the Akira profiles and Sailor Moon.

 

[Buttersamuri]

For the record I agree with the downgrade. A lot of this smells like gag feats and jokes rather than stuff he can actually do.

They can't be gags if they are consistent. If he is doing this every other case. Then it's not a gag.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Would separate profiles come from this?

 

[Ted_Ed]

All Yugioh anime profiles, Gunvolt, Goku (to a certain degree), Tetsuo (Akira) and other anime/animated movie profiles all follow the original source material's plot.

 

[Ted_Ed]

If you desperately want to divide Game and Anime feats, then they should be separated into different forms/profiles

Simply removing all anime feats is absurd and against wiki rules, specially since we already have profiles that specifically are for anime forms already in thhe wiki.


Not to mention that Anime Phoenix has had several differences from the original game, like exclusive cases, big changes in the plot and different situations.

 

[Jinsye]

That still smells like Purification to me, it's removing a spirit from a body. Even if it's against Maya's will he's removing an external spirit from Maya's body, not Maya's soul. It's not soul manipulation and he definitely can't rip a person's soul out in-combat.

Most of the different incarnations on this wiki have major differences from the original plot, so that's why they're allowed to have seperate profiles. Phoenix Wright's anime is literally just an adaptation of the story with basically no differences besides dramatization, and even then alot of profiles on the wiki don't composite Anime and Manga like that, example being Goku.

Also making Anime Phoenix a profile would violate the Alternative Canon and Composite Profiles rules in that

"4) Franchises which contain non-canonical spin-offs/movies/videogames, etcetera, each with their own continuities and feats, yet not to the extent that Marvel and DC Comics do, should only be allowed profiles for notable original characters from said spin-offs, and not alternate versions of canonical characters, unless they are very prominent and notable."

 

[Jackythejack]

Hey dude. Calm down with all the posting and give the others a chance to respond how about.

 

[Ted_Ed]

It does not count as purification since

1.- Maya wanted Dahlia inside to prevent her from accomplishing her goals

2.-Dahlia being evil is never stated to be a factor

3.- In the games, Phoenix expells her out against both Maya's and Dahlia's will on his own.


Its soul hax.

 

[Buttersamuri]

I'll separate everything here cause i won't be back for a little bit

1. Anime issue. We had fused plenty. And I do mean plenty of anime with other media. Often because they are the same. This anime series is the exact same to its game counterpart. Same cases, same story, same character, same villains, same evidence. Same story. So fusing it shouldn't be an issue.

2. His abilties. They are Not gags. They aren't done to be Haha funny. No. They are abilties multiple characters show. Multiple occasions. And are often during serious moments. And have taken real world effects. So not a gag at all.

3. Soul manipulation. There's no other way on putting it. He got rid of her soul. She had no reason to leave and downright said she didn't want to leave. Phoenix is the only one responsible, and is the only logical one to have done it. And it was done on His command. Nobody else's just his. It was Maya's goal to keep her there. And Dahlia didn't want to leave. Aka. Phoenix is the only one who is responsible

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Akira's movie jumps over a more than half the manga. And i do agree the Sailor Moon profile is fishy, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Yu Gi Oh is different, Gunvolt doesn't have a different key for the anime and Goku is done differently because Dragon Ball is special.

Phoenix Wright has no reason to have the anime feats.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Not to mention that Dahlia's spirit had also physically changed Maya's body as part of the Kurain Channeling technique.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Butters prove it then. Feel free to show me evidence every other case in which Phoenix is soul hazing folks to hell. You made a positive claim, back it up or drop it.

For the record, not every anime and manga relationship is the same. Stop trying to use other verses to justify your treatment of AA.

Anyways, I'll just be waiting for that boatload of proof that this isn't gag stuff. If I don't get it, this is a big ole downgrade from my vote.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Akira's movie jumps over a more than half the manga. And i do agree the Sailor Moon profile is fishy, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Yu Gi Oh is different, Gunvolt doesn't have a different key for the anime and Goku is done differently because Dragon Ball is special.

Phoenix Wright has no reason to have the anime feats.

Yea he does. It's much like several animes. Say like MHA. ot ippo,

 

[Buttersamuri]

@Butters prove it then. Feel free to show me evidence every other case in which Phoenix is soul hazing folks to hell. You made a positive claim, back it up or drop it.

For the record, not every anime and manga relationship is the same. Stop trying to use other verses to justify your treatment of AA.

Anyways, I'll just be waiting for that boatload of proof that this isn't gag stuff. If I don't get it, this is a big ole downgrade from my vote.

Soul hacks isn't done both in game and anime. And is during a serious moment. Not a Haha funny just a gag moment, if we called every new ability a gag like that. Then we have a lot to remove on thousands of pages

I know not every anime is like that. But several are. And this one is too.