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Paper Mario and the Pure Hearts

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So, this is a topic that I've been interested in covering for quite a long time: The fact that Paper Mario is multiversal with the pure hearts. Everytime I see people debating Paper Mario vs Archie Sonic, I always hear the argument for Paper Mario that he has the pure hearts making him multiversal allowing him to win. Well, I want to throw my hat in the ring and explain why I think the Pure Hearts are WAAAAAAY overhyped.


First off, the Pure Hearts require a lot of prep time. It's explicitly stated multiple times in the game that in order for the pure hearts to work, they need to be fueled by the positive emotions of love, joy, etc. It can't just be some generic act of kindness either, it has to be true, unrestrained love. For example, the wedding at the end of Super Paper Mario, or all four of the main characters of SPM fighting to save the dimensions from Dimentio. So I highly doubt Paper Mario by himself could generate enough positive emotions to fuel the chaos heart, especially in a death match where he'll most likely be bloodlusted. And if he tried to get other people to fuel the heart, then that's outside help. That's not the case for the chaos emeralds, as Sonic can just pull them from nowhere whenever he needs them


Second, How do we know the Pure Hearts work against everything? We know that they can counter the chaos heart because they were specifically designed to do that and it's mentioned in SPM multiple times. But let's say we put Paper Mario with the Pure Hearts against Darkseid. Would the Pure Hearts still work even though Darkseid doesn't have the Chaos Heart? We don't know since it's never stated in the game. Also, the only things in Super Paper Mario that Paper Mario defeats using the pure hearts are characters who use the chaos heart. When you fight characters like O'Chunks and Mimi in castle bleck, the pure hearts don't confer any special benefits.

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And those are all of my arguments. There's not a lot to go off of admittedly since the Pure Hearts have only been in one game and they're just plot mcguffins, but I think I've made a decent case as to why multiversal Mario is very sketchy and should not be used in a serious debate because it only exists in one specific scenario. I'll admit Archie Sonic has been wanked a bit too, but I still think he beats Paper Mario since the best feat Paper Mario has without mcguffins is defeating Gloomtail, a character far below the stuff Archie Sonic has canonically beaten.
 
We've discussed this many times before and it's always been debunked.

Also DARKSEID doesn't have a Chos Heart? WAT?
 
I just said that to say that what if the Pure Hearts only work against opponents with the Chaos Heart and nothing else since it hasn't been confirmed they work against anything other than what they were intended to stop
 
1. Just because Pure Heart Mario is a prep time required boost that probably can't be pulled off in an immediate fight doesn't mean Pure Heart Mario while having that boost isn't Multiversal.

2. Okay Archie Sonic beats Mario. Are you happy? Doesn't make Pure Heart Mario any less powerful.

3. The Chaos Heart gave Super Dimentio the power to destroy the multiverse. The Pure Hearts made Mario more powerful than Super Dimentio and lead to outmatching him. Therefore he has his rating by basic powerscaling. If someone doesn't have multiverse destroying power, why would whether or not they have a Chaos Heart allow them to beat characters such as Pure Heart Mario or Dimentio? It's like if Superman used Thought Robot to beat Mandrakk, who is amped by the blood of the multiverse. But Thought Robot couldn't beat anyone who doesn't have the blood of the multiverse.
 
1. I get that. I'm just saying that giving Paper Mario the pure hearts already fueled shoudl be counted as either outside help or prep time, which a normal deathmatch wouldn't have.

3. The Pure Hearts have only been shown doing anything against opponents with the Chaos Heart. Against any other opponent, they haven't really done anything.
 
No...I just kinda threw that in because I was thinking about something at the time. But I probably should have kept that out. Yeah, that just made me sound biased.
 
"The Pure Hearts have only been shown doing anything against opponents with the Chaos Heart. Against any other opponent, they haven't really done anything."

That's literally not how it works.

That's like saying ki only works against ki users.
 
1. I don't know if you know this, but this site doesn't go by Death Battle's rules for match ups. And especially does not go by Death Battle's rules for indexing characters. Pure Heart Mario is still Multiversal, even if it requires prep time or outside help to get that powerful. Therefore we're going to rate him as that and use that form for match ups.

3. The Paper Mario everyone claims is Multiversal is the one who fights Super Dimentio at the end of the game. After he absorbed the power of all the Pure Hearts. And this boost made him more powerful than someone who had multiverse destroying power. This form/amp doesn't fight against anyone else.

Again, this is like saying since Thought Robot only beat a guy who was amped by the blood of the multiverse, anyone without the blood of the multiverse can beat TR. Even if they are nowhere remotely close to being as powerful as TR.

Mario gained a massive power boost by Pure Heart, and defeated Dimentio who gained a massive power boost by Chaos Heart. This doesn't at all indicate that someone with multiversal power now somehow loses to vastly inferior people who don't have the same power source as the one they defeated.
 
I mean, Paper Mario didn't absorb their power. He was just borrowing their power. They reappear later on at the wedding between Bleck and Tipi.


I don't know, I'd just like some confirmation from somewhere that the pure hearts make Paper Mario Multiversal level against every opponent, not just Chaos Heart users.
 
How about you get confirmation that the Pure Hearts are only Multiversal against the Chaos Heart?
 
I mean, there is a bunch of lore and flavor text throughout the game saying the Pure Hearts were specifically made to counter the chaos heart
 
He temporarily absorbed the Pure Hearts' power. Not permanantly. But either way they gave him a massive power boost.

That is a ridiculous assumption. Imagine if we rated other characters like this. Goku only performed Universe level feats when fighting Beerus a God Ki user. So he's only Universal against God Ki users and not against Batman. Thought Robot only beat a guy who has the blood of the multiverse, therefore TR is only multiversal against people who have the blood of the multiverse. Archie Sonic only defeated a multiversal being who had Chaos powers, therefore Archie Sonic is only multiversal against people with Chaos powers.

"I mean, there is a bunch of lore and flavor text throughout the game saying the Pure Hearts were specifically made to counter the chaos heart"

Yeah their purpose was to defeat the Chaos Heart and match its power. That doesn't mean the Pure Hearts only makes someome Multiversal against another Chaos Heart user. That's still an unfounded and unlikely assumption.
 
Well, God Ki is something Goku has with him at all times, and he's fought characters like Hit and Frieza who don't have God Ki and yet still put up a good fight against SSB. And God Ki isn't something specifically made to counter something, it's just a stat boost.


Admittedly, I'm not really interested in this topic anymore. You can just delete this thread. I didn't really think anyone would find this tbh.
 
JJSliderman said:
I mean, there is a bunch of lore and flavor text throughout the game saying the Pure Hearts were specifically made to counter the chaos heart
Then show it.
 
Goku only ever does a Universe level feat against a God Ki user though. So by your logic, he's only Universal against God Ki users. And again, the Pure Hearts' purpose being to overpower the Chaos Heart doesn't at all prove the headcanon you have.
 
From the Mario wiki:

As the Chaos Heart empowers its controller to the point of invincibility, the Pure Hearts are necessary to overcome it.

Plus:

With the dark artifact floating between them, the long-lost lovers finally exchanged vows, reforming the Pure Hearts one last time.

So techincally the pure hearts don't exist anymore
 
1. All that says is that Super Dimentio is too powerful for Mario to defeat by regular means, so he needs the Pure Hearts to beat him. Nothing we didn't already know.

2. And? Maybe Pure Hearts don't exist anymore. But they still had multiversal power when they existed.
 
Something being necessary to overcome something else doesn't mean it only work on that thing, and they not existing anymore doesn't affect how powerful Mario was when he had them.
 
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