Overvoid Downgrade

[Westcoast5005]

So if it gets downgraded can someone make crt to upgrade him?.

 

[Confluctor]

If you can find evidence, why not?

 

[Westcoast5005]

If you can find evidence, why not?

Ok so I don't have to wait for the "huge verse changes"

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ok so I don't have to wait for the "huge verse changes"

The huge verse changes may downgrade him even more...

 

[Confluctor]

Ok so I don't have to wait for the "huge verse changes"

I believe for the time being should be fine. We shouldn't stonewall every thread with de-compositing posts. Until that revision happens, things should go like normal. Upgrades and downgrades should be made if there is evidence for it.

 

[Firestorm808]

We're still compiling information on the cosmology. I would advise against any hasty revisions.

 

[Confluctor]

I know. But that will take years, it's already been what, 2 years? We can't just stonewall all threads until that happens. "Fixing" them in the end wouldn't be a big problem, if it goes through.

 

[Xearsay]

And Overvoid doesn't...at all.

It does. And there was a whole elaborate post laid out to for you that broke down how it was high 1A. And your only answer was “I don’t think that’s High 1A” despite one of the most knowledgeable members on the tiering system stating it is.

The fact is that Overvoid felt the need to protect itself from contact with the growing multiverse, which is where the Monitors came in.

The multiverse is literally growing inside of the Overvoid. How can it protect itself from making contact with what already exist inside of it? That doesn’t make sense and this is ignoring that there isn’t even a damn scan to back up what you’re saying.

Right, and you haven't showed how it's false. The best thing you've done is repeat my points over and over again. Then watching over the multiverse was a self-defense mechanism done by Overvoid due to it's shock at discovering the growing multiverse. Besides, it's likely just a layer above 1A, rather than High 1A. Tho, that will likely be changed in the DC downgrade coming soon.

Your “points” are literally just misconceptions about the origin given to us during Final Crisis and Multiversity. The Monitors being made to watch over the Multiverse has nothing to do with the Overvoid.

 

[Tarang123]

It does. And there was a whole elaborate post laid out to for you that broke down how it was high 1A. And your only answer was “I don’t think that’s High 1A” despite one of the most knowledgeable members on the tiering system stating it is.

First of all, numerous contradictions to said transcendence were layed out and even the idea of it encompassing everything isn't High 1A at all.

The multiverse is literally growing inside of the Overvoid. How can it protect itself from making contact with what already exist inside of it? That doesn’t make sense and this is ignoring that there isn’t even a damn scan to back up what you’re saying.

Again, you haven't shown evidence to contradict that and it's stated numerous times by both the story and Grant Morrison that the Monitors were made as a self-defense mechanism to protect Overvoid from contact with the multiverse.

Your “points” are literally just misconceptions about the origin given to us during Final Crisis and Multiversity. The Monitors being made to watch over the Multiverse has nothing to do with the Overvoid.

Ngl, but this argument is dumb when it's stated numerous times otherwise. You could argue that it's been retconned, but you can't possibly argue like this when it's blatantly stated numerous times.

 

[Teezar]

Again, you haven't shown evidence to contradict that and it's stated numerous times by both the story and Grant Morrison that the Monitors were made as a self-defense mechanism to protect Overvoid from contact with the multiverse.

To be honest I actually feel it's because it's doesn't want to have to do with any story or anything with DC storyline but it's my opinion.

 

[Tarang123]

To be honest I actually feel it's because it's doesn't want to have to do with any story or anything with DC storyline but it's my opinion.

That's true, but my point had to do with the whole thing of transcendence and how it's not enough to be High 1A. Tbf, I could also bring up numerous occasions from which Overvoid has been "affected" such as Perpetua tearing pieces from it (tho, that doesn't disprove it too much), Lucifer "cracking" it (I need to re-read that scene again, tho), and even merging with the Overvoid. None of these should be possible if Overvoid was truly inaccessibly above all extensions of 1A characters in the verse.

 

[Teezar]

Lucifer "cracking" it

I don't remember this to be honest. But what issue? Is it when Lucifer was looking at past/other creations before the presence own?

and even merging with the Overvoid.

This never happened, The narration only stated "and so it's hard to tell whether he imposes himself on the Overvoid or he becomes it"

That's true, but my point had to do with the whole thing of transcendence and how it's not enough to be High 1A. Tbf, I could also bring up numerous occasions from which Overvoid has been "affected" such as Perpetua tearing pieces from it (tho, that doesn't disprove it too much), Lucifer "cracking" it (I need to re-read that scene again, tho), and even merging with the Overvoid. None of these should be possible if Overvoid was truly inaccessibly above all extensions of 1A characters in the verse.

The perpetua case tho I think it was later stated to be from the source or something about the source giving her.
.

 

[Tarang123]

I don't remember this to be honest. But what issue? Is it when Lucifer was looking at past/other creations before the presence own?


This never happened, The narration only stated "and so it's hard to tell whether he imposes himself on the Overvoid or he becomes it"

The perpetua case tho I think it was later stated to be from the source or something about the source giving her.
.

I don't remember the exact issue, but there was a scene where he basically cracks it with his will.

I'll try finding the scan, but I'm pretty sure he was "merging" with it, which is what him becoming it would essentially mean.

Yeah, thing is, even then Perpetua should be High 1A, tho obviously not anymore

 

[Westcoast5005]

Lucifer never cracked the overvoid that was dream of the endless domain. Also you haven't provided scans for all this claims.

 

[Confluctor]

It couldn't have been Overmind, the concept was introduced many years later

 

[Teezar]

I'll try finding the scan, but I'm pretty sure he was "merging" with it, which is what him becoming it would essentially mean.

This never happened, The narration only stated "and "so it's hard to tell whether he imposes himself on the Overvoid or he becomes the void itself".

Besides the Overvoid is just a being that Encompasses all of creation and all stories that arise from it, perceiving its entirety as an infinitesimal "Flaw" amidst its nothingness.

 

[Tarang123]

Besides the Overvoid is just a being that Encompasses all of creation and all stories that arise from it, perceiving its entirety as an infinitesimal "Flaw" amidst its nothingness.

Interesting, but I think that the word “impose” still brings in questions about said transcendence

 

[Teezar]

This is Lucifer Morningstar bro, he prolly can do almost anything

 

[Tarang123]

This is Lucifer Morningstar bro, he prolly can do almost anything

Lmao true

 

[Tarang123]

So is there a certain number of people that need to agree for changes to be implemented?

 

[Teezar]

Staffs mainly but firestorm is working on the DC general revision, the other staffs I know left this platform or got banned. One prolly said he will return.

 

[Xearsay]

First of all, numerous contradictions to said transcendence were layed out and even the idea of it encompassing everything isn't High 1A at all.

You only laid out one contradiction and it’s a complete misconception from Final Crisis. The Monitors were never made to protect the Overvoid from contact with the Multiverse and you haven’t given a single piece of evidence for this.

Again, you haven't shown evidence to contradict that and it's stated numerous times by both the story and Grant Morrison that the Monitors were made as a self-defense mechanism to protect Overvoid from contact with the multiverse.

Ngl, but this argument is dumb when it's stated numerous times otherwise. You could argue that it's been retconned, but you can't possibly argue like this when it's blatantly stated numerous times.

First of all, why would I show evidence to contradict what you have no evidence for?

Second, on the first page of this thread I gave you a scan that states the Monitors were made to study the flaw. So it’s a blatant lie to say I gave no evidence to contradict what you’re saying.

Lastly, not only have you not shown evidence for the Monitors being made to protect the Overvoid from contact with the Multiverse, but the argument itself doesn’t even make sense. The Multiverse already exist inside of the Overvoid. Therefore it’s always in contact with the Overvoid for the Overvoid is the white space that it exist inside of.

 

[Tarang123]

What

You only laid out one conand it’s a complete misconception from Final Crisis. The Monitors were never made to protect the Overvoid and you haven’t given a single bit of evidence for this.



First of all, why would I show evidence to contradict what you have no evidence for?

Second, on the first page of this thread I gave you a scan that states the Monitors were made to study the flaw. So it’s a blatant lie to say I gave no evidence to contradict what you’re saying.

Lastly, not only have you not shown evidence for the Monitors being made to protect the Overvoid from contact with the Multiverse, the argument itself doesn’t even make sense. The Multiverse already exist inside of the Overvoid. It’s not possible for the Overvoid to not be in contact with it.

The fact is, it’s never stated to being anything else. In fact saying that Overvoid views a 1A hierarchy of R>F transcendences as fiction provides a High 1A is laughably wrong. It’s merely another layer into 1A

 

[Westcoast5005]

Creation is literally and infinitesimal speck in the void. Also in DC higher dimension sees lower dimensions bas fiction.

 

[Xearsay]

What

The fact is, it’s never stated to being anything else. In fact saying that Overvoid views a 1A hierarchy of R>F transcendences as fiction provides a High 1A is laughably wrong. It’s merely another layer into 1A

No one is saying the Overvoid views a 1-A hierarchy as fiction. That was never the original justification for why it got to high 1-A. What was said by Ultima is that the Overvoid exist beyond all definitions of conceptualizations which is stated in an interview by Grant Morrison and supported by the Thought Robot sensing Mandrakks idea becoming lost once falling into the Overvoid from Nil.

 

[Tarang123]

No one is saying the Overvoid views a 1-A hierarchy as fiction. That was never the original justification for why it got to high 1-A. What was said by Ultima is that the Overvoid exist beyond all definitions of conceptualizations which is stated in an interview by Grant Morrison.

Which is blatantly false

 

[Tarang123]

No one is saying the Overvoid views a 1-A hierarchy as fiction. That was never the original justification for why it got to high 1-A. What was said by Ultima is that the Overvoid exist beyond all definitions of conceptualizations which is stated in an interview by Grant Morrison and supported by the Thought Robot sensing Mandrakks idea disappearing once falling into the Overvoid from Nil.

The fact was that Overvoid isn’t beyond all conceptions of a 1A cosmology, something Ultima blatantly states, which is why he’s neutral on this thread. The thing with mandrakk is literally conceptual erasure. Nothing about that supports High 1A

 

[Xearsay]

Which is blatantly false

Really? This is all your gonna reply with? Just more nuh uh comments?

 

[Tarang123]

Really? This is all your gonna reply with? Just more nuh uh comments?

I gave more reasoning for it. I apologize for not putting more details there cause I was responding to another thread

 

[Tarang123]

Besides, there’s no real reason for the hierarchy in dc to even be 1A, anyway. So High 1A wouldn’t work either way

 

[Xearsay]

The fact was that Overvoid isn’t beyond all conceptions of a 1A cosmology, something Ultima blatantly states, which is why he’s neutral on this thread. The thing with mandrakk is literally conceptual erasure. Nothing about that supports High 1A

He literally never said that. After breaking down how characters can exist beyond the framework in which 1-A is defined and be high 1-A, he states "Definitionally, it is High 1-A, yeah, at least when done in contrast to an 1-A cosmology, like I said."

Yes it's conceptual erasure but that's not really the point. The point is that his very idea or what defines him was lost after Monitor Mind specifically tried to engulf him.

 

[Xearsay]

Besides, there’s no real reason for the hierarchy in dc to even be 1A, anyway. So High 1A wouldn’t work either way

That's still up for debate, and even if it was true you would still need to wait for the cosmology to be downgraded first before downgrading the Overvoid.

 

[Tarang123]

That's still up for debate, and even if it was true you would still need to wait for the cosmology to be downgraded first before downgrading the Overvoid.

Can you give reasoning for it being 1A?

 

[Tarang123]

He literally never said that. After breaking down how characters can exist beyond the framework in which 1-A is defined and be high 1-A, he states "Definitionally, it is High 1-A, yeah, at least when done in contrast to an 1-A cosmology, like I said."

Yes it's conceptual erasure but that's not really the point. The point is that his very idea or what defines him was lost after Monitor Mind specifically tried to engulf him.

He actually does…I just checked what he said.

that second point still doesn’t support your argument, tho. The whole idea was a possibility that Ultima layer out, something that’s contradicted by what actually happened, which both Ultima and I layer out.

 

[Teezar]

What

The fact is, it’s never stated to being anything else. In fact saying that Overvoid views a 1A hierarchy of R>F transcendences as fiction provides a High 1A is laughably wrong. It’s merely another layer into 1A

Ultima did say it's possible for a high 1a and his the expert and not only infinite hierarchy grants 1A and above or ***** like that.

I don't understand 1A shit but I can give my input about the Overvoid.

Creation is literally and infinitesimal speck in the void. Also in DC higher dimension sees lower dimensions bas fiction.

It's seen as a mark or stain or something like that I've forgotten how it's stated but based on an omniscient character like Lucifer Morningstar all stuffs in the Overvoid are just 0 and it has so many possibilities.

Which is blatantly false

How please?

The fact was that Overvoid isn’t beyond all conceptions of a 1A cosmology, something Ultima blatantly states, which is why he’s neutral on this thread. The thing with mandrakk is literally conceptual erasure. Nothing about that supports High 1A

He stated all conceptions tho and ultima was neutral mostly on a possible high 1a also. Conceptual erasure how please?

Besides, there’s no real reason for the hierarchy in dc to even be 1A, anyway. So High 1A wouldn’t work either way

Limbo I believe qualifies
Monitor sphere and Nil also and I remember a thread the dreaming was believed to be 1A also.

He actually does…I just checked what he said.

that second point still doesn’t support your point, tho. The whole idea was a possibility that Ultima layer out, something that’s contradicted by what actually happened

What contradiction please?

I soon might unfollow this thread anyways.

 

[Tarang123]

Ultima did say it's possible for a high 1a and his the expert and not only infinite hierarchy grants 1A and above or ***** like that.

I don't understand 1A shit but I can give my input about the Overvoid.

It's seen as a mark or stain or something like that I've forgotten how it's stated but based on an omniscient character like Lucifer Morningstar all stuffs in the Overvoid are just 0 and it has so many possibilities.

How please?

He stated all conceptions tho and ultima was neutral mostly on a possible high 1a also. Conceptual erasure how please?

Limbo I believe qualifies
Monitor sphere and Nil also and I remember a thread the dreaming was believed to be 1A also.

What contradiction please?

I soon might unfollow this thread anyways.

I think Ultima points it out. You can check it out there.

how exactly is limbo 1A? How is The Monitor Sphere 1A?

 

[Teezar]

I can give my input tomorrow now I wanna read for stuffs I've got tomorrow.

 

[Tarang123]

@Xearsay, I assume you’re in the disagree stance for this thread, then?

 

[Tarang123]

I can give my input tomorrow now I wanna read for stuffs I've got tomorrow.

Alr, you can take your time

 

[Xearsay]

I think Ultima points it out. You can check it out there.

how exactly is limbo 1A? How is The Monitor Sphere 1A?

Well it's more about Limbo. The Monitor Sphere is just an archetypal plane of existence that scales above Limbo. I remember there was an argument about Limbo scaling beyond the 1-B scan but I'll have to look at it again. We could talk about it in messages if you want since this is kind of derailing.