Overlord Resistance

[Apeironaxim]

DMUA said this would not grant resistances as this was done through raw power. That is what is the problem

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

An evaluation based off your provided quotes without context. He did also say "Ultimately it depends on how the verse treats it"

 

[Apeironaxim]

i gave him the quotes, that is the context needed. He looked at the quotes, said there isn't anything that would give resistances

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

The 'context' needed would be

This was done through a technique and this was done through a tier 7 spell, no other evidence suggests the same could be done through higher levelled techniques, in fact there is evidence contrary to that.

 

[DMUA]

I really don't see it

It's just using a ton of power to atomize demons

What part of these quotes involve negating durability

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I really didn't think you'd post but anyways.

>What part of these quotes involve negating durability

The part it clearly states it's method of elimination = sightless atoms. As opposed to what higher tiers actually do

>It's just using a ton of power to atomize demons

By your own statement this (the calc) would be labelled as 'inconsistency' considering there is evidence otherwise

 

[DMUA]

... Atomization is something you can do with a high enough energy. I don't get how specifying that indeed, you cannot see these atoms, suddenly makes it hax

Okay but it just says the spell is using holy power to atomize evil beings, yet powerful dudes no sell it. Burden of proof is on you to say it works on people with higher dura and no resistance

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I seem to have misread your initial stance on this wrongly. I advocated the quote saying atomization which was the point of this thread until Deconstruction was brought up if you scroll up and Antvasima gave me what to use.

Then came Apeironaxim stating that higher tiers = atomization. Which is wrong on many levels that I debunked.


>Burden of proof is on you to say it works on people with higher dura and no resistance

You need resistance towards atomization which was the initial reason for this thread as pointed out by OP

Are you agreeing with OP?

 

[DMUA]

Wrong on so many levels it's listed as an entirely valid method of destroying something on our calculation pages?

You'd just need durability to resist a powerful attack like how this is described. Unless it's actively attacking on an atomic level or something like that, tearing away defenses, this isn't a special resistance.

No

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Since your stance is on 'power', that is an 8-C feat contradictory to what higher tiers do, thereby nulling that calc as opposed to matter manipulation by severing molecular bonds and reducing them to individual atoms.

 

[DMUA]

Unsurprisingly, Ainz Ooal Gown can no sell a 8-C attack, yeah

 

[Apeironaxim]

i think he's trying to say that since high tier spells don't atomize every lower level character they are used on, the Lakyus calc should not be valid

 

[DMUA]

It could just be a 8-C dura feat for lower tiers, in that case

 

[Apeironaxim]

the thing is, only Holy Smite and Lakyus's super skill have been stated to reduce something to "sightless atoms", so i'm not sure giving every 7th tier spell and above the ability to atomize makes sense unless it is stated they can

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Applause, then. A round of applause in celebration of my supreme power.
	~ Ainz Ooal Gow​

On a serious note, you're are on the side of atomizing through AP while I'm on 'technique' which would not invalidate Lakyus' AP considering this wiki actually has a j/cc value for that, although just your say on whether the latter is applicable...I'm not sure.
The OP quote doesn't specify 'powerlevel' differences just what type of existence you are, which would lead one to think it is "severing molecular bonds and reducing them to individual atoms." which would bring me to the above paragraph.

 

[DMUA]

I mean, if they have enough power, they could potentially atomize. It's just not common for some reason.

I mean, yeah, then Ainz apparently just tanks it despite being evil. And it still vaporizes good beings, at that.

 

[Apeironaxim]

so should the edits be reverted then?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@DMUA

That last edit seems to imply you agree with 'technique' over AP for OP's quote contrary to your previous statement.

@Apeironaxim

Yes. I will do so now.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Done. So now both techniques are atomization, Lakyus would be AP and this would be hax. I think stating the latter is AP would need a sanity check first.

 

[DMUA]

or just

it does more damage against evil enemies

that doesn't make it hax, Damage Boost is a thing in situations like this

It's treated as a powerful attack that does more against non evil, that's it.

 

[Apeironaxim]

it's a Holy spell, which do more damage to evil beings

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

In the context of the story that does not make sense but I'll get to that, firstly the quote doesn't show any level differences to judge relative to, but provides the effects on evil entities so I'm not sure why you're fixated on AP.

Secondly if we were to say it's based off tier 7 casters and those who scale and below, great now this spell atomizes evil entities comparable to you and below, let me go find a quote...Seems it doesn't exist.

Also metamagic covers that, [Maximize Magic] exists that I doubt even increases your spells damage by 2x

 

[DMUA]

"This sacred power would annihilate all evil beings, and even good entities would meet the same fate. The difference was only if they were reduced to sightless atoms, or if there would actually be remains left behind. This was the awesome power of magic that exceeded the realm of humanity"

Point to the part where this says it destroys evil and even good no matter their level of power and that only a special defense can deflect it. Cause all I see is it being described as an awesome power that wipes people off the map.

In fact, actually, where is the quote that Ainz or their likeness resists this stuff anyways? We've been blabbering about the spell but not the part where anyone actually withstands it.

 

[Apeironaxim]

ÒÇîHoly SmiteÒÇì.
The spell was cast, and a pillar of light broke through the sky.
With a loud whoosh, a seemingly endless cascade of holy blue-white radiance flooded down from the heavens, submerging Ainz, who simply raised one arm to shade his eyes.
The 7th tier of magic — a height humanity could not hope to attain.
This sacred power would annihilate all evil beings, and even good entities would meet the same fate. The difference was only if they were reduced to sightless atoms, or if there would actually be remains left behind. This was the awesome power of magic that exceeded the realm of humanity.
No, it would be strange if that were not the case.
Yet — he was still there.
Ainz Ooal Gown, the monster, was not blasted into glowing ash, sprawled on the ground or pulverized into meat jelly, but he was still standing nonchalantly, and even laughing:
"—Hahahahaha, as expected of magic that has extra effect on those of evil alignment… so this is what taking damage feels like… pain, is it? I see, I see! Still, even though I feel pain, my mind is clear, and my ability to act is not affected at all."
The pillar of light vanished. It had not had any effect.

Granted Ainz only really gets hurt by it because of his maxed out weakness to Holy damage

 

[Yobo_Blue]

We already use statements like that in Overlord as AP calcs.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@DMUA Did you just say 'no matter their level', i'm sorry but that would be hax. Also Atomization is something like 2 billion joules, billions more than 10-B. I'm sorry but unless you can give an accurate number on the AP difference I'll just assume it's a billion times. So based on that Overlord upgrades when? Ainz withstands an attack that would have atomized him, meaning he is at-least a billion times his base right now.

 

[InfiniteSped]

The hell you talking about, mate

 

[Apeironaxim]

The hell you talking about, mate

^

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@InfiniteSped

Through AP doesn't really have a minimum value. So something like an attack at-least 50x your own atomizes your or something like that unless staff assign one just like the 7.5x speed stomp.

I applied it to overlord since what was being stated was that there was that large of a gap in power to do so.

 

[Apeironaxim]

afaik, even if a 7-B character or something atomizes another 7-B, if you wanted to calc that, you would just be calcing the value for atomizing a human, assuming they were a human of course, which would be 8-C

though giving them an AP rating would obviously have them be higher from this feat, but it can't be calced by taking into account their 7-B durability, in this case

 

[DMUA]

The hell you talking about, mate

I was dragged here as a calcing boi for a verse I have low interest in reading or watching to argue over something that's pretty clear cut not hax yet is being pushed as hax for some reason

Then again if you're referring to the other guy's comment

Yeah actually what the fork that's not how fiction or our site functions

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Sigh. Rather than address specific users I'll just write this as it is.

• Quote gives no evidence for tiers instead gives those affected but some people insist on AP

• Atomizing you depends on your mass and volume, once you get those values then you use 72416.33 j/cc (or somebody needs to remove that value)

• Atomization through AP is possible, such large of a gap that given the context as well as verse mechanics you'd need one large dump of evidence

• Saying it's not hax when your molecules are losing cohesion through technique whilst also not providing any real counter is laziness

 

[InfiniteSped]

It's the Theocracy dudes using the spell, isn't it? To them, the spell would destroy any evil being, as 7th tier magic can annihilate pretty much anything in the New World.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

That would be third perspective or more like author since Nigun does not know of 'atoms'

 

[InfiniteSped]

The narrator seemed to be talking about what the Theocracy believed it did, the chapter was mostly from their PoV, iirc. It can't be an omniscient narrator, since what was said was clearly wrong.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

It can't be them, like I said, 'atoms'. Also I assume you're saying that because Ainz survived? Surviving it...Is literally the point of this thread.

 

[InfiniteSped]

They might know about atoms, who knows. Maybe one of the Six Gods left that knowledge with them. The thing is that the narration does state things that are just incorrect, like the Dominion of Authority being the strongest angel, or that no one in the continent could beat it (PDL exists), that looks a lot more like Nigun's beliefs.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Pretty sure the people from Slane we've seen haven't been preaching rudimentary science, as well as other earthen stuff. I didn't see Clementine hold a sermon on biology.

Also Nigun seemed unaware of God-kin, only Clementine knew.

 

[Moritzva]

It's AP.

 

[InfiniteSped]

We've never really seen them in any situation where that kind of knowledge would be relevant, but it's totally possible for it to be something they know, if any of the Six Gods or any other players ever bothered to mention it.

And I don't see what God-kin have to do with this.