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Our Umineko/When They Cry Problem
- Thread starter Sera_EX
- Start date
- Status
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I am going to bed very soon, so this thread starting to go out of control is not at all good at the moment.
Anyway, to repeat:
DarkLK is not comfortable talking about complicated topics in English with people that he does not know.
He has been very willing to help out with revisions. That they are taking so long is not his fault.
It would be much better if Sera, ALRF and Promestein had just started calmly talking with him about this rather than the current confrontational thread about it.
I would greatly appreciate if we could dial things back and let the above-mentioned people talk with DarkLK in a calm and reasonable manner. I am sure that he will be willing to help, as long as they are reasonably respectful.
Anyway, to repeat:
DarkLK is not comfortable talking about complicated topics in English with people that he does not know.
He has been very willing to help out with revisions. That they are taking so long is not his fault.
It would be much better if Sera, ALRF and Promestein had just started calmly talking with him about this rather than the current confrontational thread about it.
I would greatly appreciate if we could dial things back and let the above-mentioned people talk with DarkLK in a calm and reasonable manner. I am sure that he will be willing to help, as long as they are reasonably respectful.
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@Ant
We're not blaiming DarkLK. All we're asking is for him (Actually what we have been asking and waiting for months now) is evidence.
Time...Look at how many times we see DarkLK posting many info in vs threads YET the profile has none of this evidence, nor was there any agreement on said evidence/Revision made for it.
ACF profiles? Need that i remind you many of our Demonbane profiles are a copy cat of OBD/ACF wiki? Need that i say ACF has Demonbane Azathoth as Tier 0?
I'll say it here, right now and bluntly. ACF is not us. I could care less shit about how ACF treat the verses. We are not them. They are not us. Our system is based around them, true. But we don't have the same opinion as them. What they may think is true/legit maybe is absurd by us
It's better if you go take care of yourself Ant. You're not blamed for any of this, and you shouldn't be worried about this, since in the end, we're not asking for a lot really. Good night and sleep well
We're not blaiming DarkLK. All we're asking is for him (Actually what we have been asking and waiting for months now) is evidence.
Time...Look at how many times we see DarkLK posting many info in vs threads YET the profile has none of this evidence, nor was there any agreement on said evidence/Revision made for it.
ACF profiles? Need that i remind you many of our Demonbane profiles are a copy cat of OBD/ACF wiki? Need that i say ACF has Demonbane Azathoth as Tier 0?
I'll say it here, right now and bluntly. ACF is not us. I could care less shit about how ACF treat the verses. We are not them. They are not us. Our system is based around them, true. But we don't have the same opinion as them. What they may think is true/legit maybe is absurd by us
It's better if you go take care of yourself Ant. You're not blamed for any of this, and you shouldn't be worried about this, since in the end, we're not asking for a lot really. Good night and sleep well
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@ALRF
Well, couldn't the people who know Umineko well simply have calmly and respectfully approached DarkLK about this and asked him to collaborate with them instead of Azathoth then? I would appreciate such a development, and it is definitely not too late to still do so.
Good night in any case.
Well, couldn't the people who know Umineko well simply have calmly and respectfully approached DarkLK about this and asked him to collaborate with them instead of Azathoth then? I would appreciate such a development, and it is definitely not too late to still do so.
Good night in any case.
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- Thread starter
- #46
ALRF is right. Demombane is still High 1-A and 0 over there. We are not ACF. This thread is also nowhere near chaotic so I would appreciate it if people stop acting like it is. We've been nothing but civil this entire time.
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This is an issue I have had for a bit. This is not targeting Ant or DarkLK as I don't even know much about the guy,
We cannot simply rely on one person to have a say or final say to how a verse should be treated. If we have equally capable people to take care of a verse then the do not really need to consult a certain person before revising it. IF said person truly cares, they will comment on the revision or make a counter revision once they become available. Otherwise we put a person on a much higher pedestal to others. Something this wiki is trying to debunk allegations of.
In this case what DarkLK wants does not matter in the slightest. It is literally irrelevant. If someone well versed in Umineko/When They Cry can do a good job in revising the verse, then they should not have to wait for DarkLK to give his okay. If he cares, he'll comment on the thread. No disrespect intended btw.
We cannot simply rely on one person to have a say or final say to how a verse should be treated. If we have equally capable people to take care of a verse then the do not really need to consult a certain person before revising it. IF said person truly cares, they will comment on the revision or make a counter revision once they become available. Otherwise we put a person on a much higher pedestal to others. Something this wiki is trying to debunk allegations of.
In this case what DarkLK wants does not matter in the slightest. It is literally irrelevant. If someone well versed in Umineko/When They Cry can do a good job in revising the verse, then they should not have to wait for DarkLK to give his okay. If he cares, he'll comment on the thread. No disrespect intended btw.
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Again, I am very fine with if somebody knowledgeable within the staff wants to revise Umineko. I am just saying that since DarkLK has encyclopaedic knowledge about the series and a massive amount of scans, it would be a good idea to talk with him about it first and ask him for help with evidence.
I can try to convince him to collaborate with you about it if you wish.
I can try to convince him to collaborate with you about it if you wish.
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May i ask why does it need to be a staff member?
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I agree with you here but then someone should definitely inform him about this thread (if this hasn't happened already) so he has a chance to respond to the claims being made about his behavior.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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Also
>DarkLK-kun isn't skilled with english so he doesn't share scans or talks about stuff because Umineko is so c o m p l e x
>Actively participates in vs threads and talks about the cosmology at length in them
No offense but this is a blatant excuse, DarkLK is perfectly capable of communicating with people in English.
>DarkLK-kun isn't skilled with english so he doesn't share scans or talks about stuff because Umineko is so c o m p l e x
>Actively participates in vs threads and talks about the cosmology at length in them
No offense but this is a blatant excuse, DarkLK is perfectly capable of communicating with people in English.
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If he has such knowledge then he can post scans that are not fanmade AND can freely comment on a revision thread like you, me, DontTalk (A fellow Consultant) and every other member does. Is that not how we do things here? At most, we can be asked to send him a link to the revision.
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I agree with one another helping each other. But the question is...where is he??? If other knowledgeable members are ready to revise it they won't be able to cause it seems like Dark has the final say so for some reason even if he isn't around.
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He lives in Russia. He has probably gone to bed now.
Anyway, he has repeatedly told me that his ability to discuss complex issues is much more limited in English than in Russian. I have no reason to believe that he is a liar.
Again, why are knowledgeable members so unwilling to just calmly and respectfully talk with him about this instead of suddenly creating a massive drama situation with accusations flying around? That is no way to reach an optimal solution.
Anyway, he has repeatedly told me that his ability to discuss complex issues is much more limited in English than in Russian. I have no reason to believe that he is a liar.
Again, why are knowledgeable members so unwilling to just calmly and respectfully talk with him about this instead of suddenly creating a massive drama situation with accusations flying around? That is no way to reach an optimal solution.
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Buddy, everyone is saying that they're not trying to call out DarkLK. This isn't a witch hunt or anything even remotely similar.
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That's not the issue. The issue is, why do we need to talk with him when he can also just as easily comment on a revision? He's not the end all be all of Umineko/When They Cry as we clearly have people who are also just as well versed in them. There is nothing stopping him from commenting on threads as he has blatantly done so before.Antvasima said:
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@Cal
Okay. Sorry if I overreacted. I am just experienced with how to handle communicating with DarkLK, and this isn't at all the right approach. He seems a bit introverted, and being autistic, I can obviously relate.
Just approach him and talk calmly and reasonably about this issue in a much less stressful and public manner and the revision should work out much better.
Okay. Sorry if I overreacted. I am just experienced with how to handle communicating with DarkLK, and this isn't at all the right approach. He seems a bit introverted, and being autistic, I can obviously relate.
Just approach him and talk calmly and reasonably about this issue in a much less stressful and public manner and the revision should work out much better.
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@Dragonmasterxyz
I just want him to be heavily involved in the revision to make sure that it turns out as accurate as possible. Given that he has encyclopaedic knowledge about the series and a massive number of scans, I think that this seems like a much better approach.
I just want him to be heavily involved in the revision to make sure that it turns out as accurate as possible. Given that he has encyclopaedic knowledge about the series and a massive number of scans, I think that this seems like a much better approach.
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Why can it not be just as accurate if he shows up to the thread later? Why assume no one else can have just as many scans if not more?
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If he has a massive number of scans, why hasn't he show these scans?
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I haven't seen proof of anybody else having as many scans as he does, and prefer to involve known quantities rather than take complete chances with the accuracy of the series that our tiering system is mainly based on.
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Anyway, I have to go to bed now, but would greatly appreciate if you would do me the favour of approaching DarkLK first and calmly, rationally, and respectfully talking with him about this indepth before rushing into things.
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Antvasima, this is sounding like apologetics. DarkLK shouldn't be exempt from criticism. He's not a god.
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Let's rephrase that. Why hasn't he shown them here? For everyone else to see? Going by what's above, he has had many opportunities to do so.
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Anyhow, considering the difference in time zone. DarkLK may be asleep so i guess until DarkLK comes here, we need to wait
I would like for DarkLK to:
I would like for DarkLK to:
- Prove all of his word with actual evidence and not fanmade ones
- To cooperate with us and also heard our point of view. I will not accept any excuse such as "Umineko is too complex" or "only Azzy is fit"
- That he actually put his mind into working on revising the verse instead of just going in vs thread and post fanon stuff (I will presume it is fanon until he proves all of that to me)
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@Matthew
Since when have I been known to lie? If anything my problem is that I have a problem filtering what I think/being too honest. I am merely stating my actual opinions here, not engaging in debating tactics.
@Dragonmasterxyz
Likely because he wants a calm process of slowly explaining the coherent structural foundations for his viewpoints, so they are not taken out of context with loose snippets of information.
Since when have I been known to lie? If anything my problem is that I have a problem filtering what I think/being too honest. I am merely stating my actual opinions here, not engaging in debating tactics.
@Dragonmasterxyz
Likely because he wants a calm process of slowly explaining the coherent structural foundations for his viewpoints, so they are not taken out of context with loose snippets of information.
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In all seriousness, has anyone called DarkLK to this thread yet?
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@ALRF
Then say that on his message wall. This is a very bad way to make him interested in helping out.
@Kepekley23
What is so bad about slowly talking with him one-on-one as a first step rather that rushing and stressing him out in this manner, so no coherent argument can be made? His timezone also indicates that he is likely in bed now.
Then say that on his message wall. This is a very bad way to make him interested in helping out.
@Kepekley23
What is so bad about slowly talking with him one-on-one as a first step rather that rushing and stressing him out in this manner, so no coherent argument can be made? His timezone also indicates that he is likely in bed now.
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I don't doubt that DarkLK knows WTC very well, but our pages are bad and contradictory and being so... elitist about the revisions and who can be trusted with being told how a visual novel's cosmology works only worsens the problem, because few people know shit about it and those that do don't share scans or really speak up. Or their scans aren't good enough by DarkLK's standards, and he won't bother filling them in on the full reasons why.
I have talked to Azzy about the revisions, but it's been a while and I understand that he's busy. DarkLK also has other stuff to deal with. So it's understandable. But we don't need to be so tentative about every single step we take with Umineko. The revisions should be transparent, discussed on a thread among users and cosmology described on blogs, just like anything else, rather than treated as some sacred secret that only a worthy few can comprehend.
I have talked to Azzy about the revisions, but it's been a while and I understand that he's busy. DarkLK also has other stuff to deal with. So it's understandable. But we don't need to be so tentative about every single step we take with Umineko. The revisions should be transparent, discussed on a thread among users and cosmology described on blogs, just like anything else, rather than treated as some sacred secret that only a worthy few can comprehend.
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I called DarkLK here if nobody has a problem with that.
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@Ant
Right now you are acting as DarkLK's defense attorney almost as if you don't want him to be upheld by the same standards as the rest of the wiki. You are excusing what is frankly an inept way of handling revisions simply because of who did it. And you are extremely unwilling to let more productive, just as qualified people do the job instead because they are not him.
Again, why? What makes DarkLK worthy of such special pompous treatment.
He's not doing anything to revise When They Cry despite all the opportunity to do so. Enough is enough. He is an adult and not a child.
Right now you are acting as DarkLK's defense attorney almost as if you don't want him to be upheld by the same standards as the rest of the wiki. You are excusing what is frankly an inept way of handling revisions simply because of who did it. And you are extremely unwilling to let more productive, just as qualified people do the job instead because they are not him.
Again, why? What makes DarkLK worthy of such special pompous treatment.
He's not doing anything to revise When They Cry despite all the opportunity to do so. Enough is enough. He is an adult and not a child.
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@Ant
I don't know why you're addressing me, I'm not participating in the thread and in fact wanted to call DarkLK to the thread to see whether or not he'd be able to do something here.
I don't know why you're addressing me, I'm not participating in the thread and in fact wanted to call DarkLK to the thread to see whether or not he'd be able to do something here.
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