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Orochimaru Vs. Dragon Ball Verse

YungManzi said:
@HST Nah. A character who isn't as intelligent and resourceful as Orochimaru wouldn't be able to do anything with this knowledge and materials if they are the same strength as him
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Except Said Character doesn't have to do it by themselves. They could simply be intelligent enough to get someone else to do it for them, Or just gather whatever set of DBs to achieve the knowledge neccessary. There's a decade of prep, time isn't of the essence at all or a bother. Along with them already starting on Full Knowledge of everyone in the verse.
 
My dB villain point was that orochimaru would not be deciding to fight everyone in some obvious battle field. He won't show up like DB villain to be erased, heck would they even know where and what they are fighting? And while yes you can get people to help you.

1 that is outside help which I am sure I'd not allowed.

2 it still impacts their fighting style abd how they decide to approach the fight. At the end of the day sneak attacks and traps are what orochimaru is used to. And likely to use in a battle where he is heavily outnumbered and he knows it. And also he would know what targets to go for first.
 
Well in this battle Orochimaru is by himself...he doesn't have any help (Besides summons, Edo, ect.)
 
Rocker1189 said:
My dB villain point was that orochimaru would not be deciding to fight everyone in some obvious battle field. He won't show up like DB villain to be erased, heck would they even know where and what they are fighting? And while yes you can get people to help you.

1 that is outside help which I am sure I'd not allowed.

2 it still impacts their fighting style abd how they decide to approach the fight. At the end of the day sneak attacks and traps are what orochimaru is used to. And likely to use in a battle where he is heavily outnumbered and he knows it. And also he would know what targets to go for first.
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And like I said, how would this help at all when

A. He can AP Stomp all of them at once save Zeno

B. He has zero qualms fighting multiple people so long he can do it or has to. And he loses absolutely nothing from doing it given that he taps each and every one of them.

C. Zeno is indiscriminate in what he erases. We know he erased 6 universes because he had a bad day and erased Trunks' Timeline when he saw Zamasu. The dude is fickle.

D. that is outside help which I am sure I'd not allowed.

What is this directed at? My Cells comment or someone with average intelligence could even do it comment? Because if it's at the average intelligence comment, there's nothing against getting someone more intelligent to help you if you don't have the intelligence, or like I said just use one of the many canon sets of DBs, can't say they wouldn't know they exist, because they have knowledge on all characters, including Dende, Kami, Guru, and Moori who are each directly responsible for the Earth Dragon Balls and Namekian Dragon Balls respectively. And if it's directed at the Cell comment, didn't you say he'd probably make one?
 
The only way this can be near fair is if you keep the rules the way they are but give db access to the games like heroes and stuff even then it's still probably not enough
 
Hst master said:
And like I said, how would this help at all when

A. He can AP Stomp all of them at once save Zeno

B. He has zero qualms fighting multiple people so long he can do it or has to. And he loses absolutely nothing from doing it given that he taps each and every one of them.

C. Zeno is indiscriminate in what he erases. We know he erased 6 universes because he had a bad day and erased Trunks' Timeline when he saw Zamasu. The dude is fickle.

D. that is outside help which I am sure I'd not allowed.

What is this directed at? My Cells comment or someone with average intelligence could even do it comment? Because if it's at the average intelligence comment, there's nothing against getting someone more intelligent to help you if you don't have the intelligence, or like I said just use one of the many canon sets of DBs, can't say they wouldn't know they exist, because they have knowledge on all characters, including Dende, Kami, Guru, and Moori who are each directly responsible for the Earth Dragon Balls and Namekian Dragon Balls respectively. And if it's directed at the Cell comment, didn't you say he'd probably make one?
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How would what help? I dont get this question my point is that Orochimaru knows the abilities of his enemies and knows not to just get into a multi versus one fight. And would like make multiple clones of whatever monstrosity he makes himself to be.

Orochimaru has never fough multiple people at once ased on what I remember, in fact he made sure to sneakily take out as many ninja as possible in his invasion of the village before making the sound 4 put up a barrier between himself and the rest of the village so he could 1v1 Hiruzen despite knowing he was stronger than everyone else in the village at the time(not counting jiraiya since 1 it is ambiguous who is stronger and 2 he did not know jiraiya was in the village).

I dont get your zeno comment, my point is that given the sheer number of abilities he could simply use kamui or a variant of it to hide in another dimension or something adn fight using clones since he knows what zeno can do and what he does.

Outside help is outside help regardless of if it is because you dont have the intellligence, I am assuming that Orochimaru is doing all this on his own and equipment he is given and his inteligence and experience with genetics not asking anyone to help him.
 
How would what help? I dont get this question my point is that Orochimaru knows the abilities of his enemies and knows not to just get into a multi versus one fight. And would like make multiple clones of whatever monstrosity he makes himself to be.

Orochimaru has never fough multiple people at once ased on what I remember, in fact he made sure to sneakily take out as many ninja as possible in his invasion of the village before making the sound 4 put up a barrier between himself and the rest of the village so he could 1v1 Hiruzen despite knowing he was stronger than everyone else in the village at the time(not counting jiraiya since 1 it is ambiguous who is stronger and 2 he did not know jiraiya was in the village). I don't think you understand. I said that Orochimaru has Zero problems taking on multiple people at once if he knows he's stronger than all of them combined, like the general Shonen Antagonist. Orochimaru at the time of the Chunin exams was nowhere near stronger than all the Ninja in the Leaf put together. And in this case, nobody can even tickle him. Orochimaru choosing to jump through hoops to fight people he could breathe on and kill makes no sense. Whether it's Goku, Vegeta, Hit, Grand Priest, Whis, so on and so forth. Round 1 is literally a 2-C vs 3-A and below. While R2 is a 2-C vs another 2-C that's has fickle mood swings like a child and low 2-Cs and below. R2 is a incon soley for Zeno.

On Zeno this would help how? Because if Zeno simply nukes everything there's now just a Void. A Void that Zeno can survive in fine (And yes, it is an outlier for Goku to have survived in it). Orochimaru has nothing to come back to if he was to do this.

Outside help is outside help regardless of if it is because you dont have the intellligence, I am assuming that Orochimaru is doing all this on his own and equipment he is given and his inteligence and experience with genetics not asking anyone to help him.

Orochimaru has no equipment given to him. Just full info, 10 years, and research. Also this specific thing is directed for anyone with average intelligence given the full knowledge could do this given they have knowledge on the Dragon Balls. Which are still a thing.
 
He has a counter to getting erased, not being in the same multiverse. Kamui is a thing. And if he has all the cells won't he have zeno's as well allowing him and his creations to survive in a void.
 
Rocker1189 said:
He has a counter to getting erased, not being in the same multiverse. Kamui is a thing. And if he has all the cells won't he have zeno's as well allowing him and his creations to survive in a void.
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Actually Zeno's Erasing has reached other dimensions. Trunks' whole timeline was erased including Otherworld and The Hyperbolic Time Chamber. Both are separate dimensions. Along with Zeno's own palace existing outside the Universes. They'd survive in a Void, but not the erasing itself.
 
yea because they were all in the universe with with how weird dragonballs universes are (literally look like floating galaxies) we dont know where kamui exists.
 
Rocker1189 said:
yea because they were all in the universe with with how weird dragonballs universes are (literally look like floating galaxies) we dont know where kamui exists.
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Then we can assume they're in the same universe because we have no reason to think otherwise?
 
Considering obito was capable of using it to traverse separate time spaces I don't see why that is the case.
 
Then we can assume they're in the same universe because we have no reason to think otherwise?

it doesn't really matter if they're in the same universe tbh, Zeno's range is several. That said, we don't have any reason to assume he can't reach the Kamui Dimension whe he can already reach separate dimensions before.
 
This is a stomp for the Z fighters unless Goku and Vegeta trains with the Grand Priest during the 10 years prep time. Although, I don't see them doing anything to Orochmaru giving the way of his character. In fact how can Goku and Vegeta fight someone with numerous abilities that they have now seen in combat. Also, he will be able to use them all simultanously with 10's of thousand of clones doing the same thing. Just like Madara did at the 4th Great Ninja War. On top of that, since he has Namekian DNA he should find a way somehow to create his own Dragon Balls to wish himself whatever he sees fit.

The only hope I see is the Angels, Zeno, or Zarama wish doing something to Orochimaru.

Even if a hypothetical MUI Gogeta with hakai power fights and desroys Orochimaru's body, he will be able to regenarate and get stronger by zenkai's. Since this will probably his first time getting one and it will be a huge power boost.
 
Callsign Castle said:
Orochimaru has no counter to Zeno blinking him, that much is clear.
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He can use substitution jutsu and surprised Zeno by it. Orochimaru will escaped to Kaguya's dimension. Then, he will know that the only way to do something to Zeno is using the Super Dragon Ball's. He knows how to build the radar to find them and to speak the language of the god's as well. Lastly, Orochimaru proceeds to use the Super Dragon Ball's and ask to give him the throne of the Omni-king. Now, GP and all Angels of no option but to bow down to Orochimaru.

All hail Omni-king, Orochmaru!
 
"He can use substitution jutsu and surprised Zeno by it."

How the heck is substitution going to prevent Erasure?

"Orochimaru will escaped to Kaguya's dimension."

We already made it clear that this will do jack all to effect Zeno's Erasure.

" Then, he will know that the only way to do something to Zeno is using the Super Dragon Ball's."

Assuming the DB cast didn't already collect them. And... y'know... with how well-known it is now (Being the thing the universes were fighting for as a reward for their victory), I'd be surprised if nobody was keeping an eye on it 24/7.

" He knows how to build the radar to find them and to speak the language of the god's as well."

If this is the entire DB Verse against Orochimaru, wouldn't Super Shenron just destroy Orochimaru on the spot rather than grant him a wish?

"Lastly, Orochimaru proceeds to use the Super Dragon Ball's and ask to give him the throne of the Omni-king."

Just because you have his throne doesn't mean you gain his powers :L

"Now, GP and all Angels of no option but to bow down to Orochimaru."

Again nothing implies that the role of Omni-King comes with the power. We know high-power jobs such as Hakaishin requires training and even the Kais undergo training. No power is simply given to you.

Plus Zeno's power might just be a Zeno thing. He's the one and true Omni King because... he's simply the strongest. Period. The title of Omni King and the position is a mere position placed upon him for others to revere.
 
Orochimaru also likely has multiple sharingan with izanagi and he would likely just kill zeno first as he is a biggest threat. What we know about zeno is that he is strong bud definitely not a great fighter. He struggled to keep up with the fighters in the tournament of power. Orochimaru would have at least their speeds if not more. He would blitz zeno from the start before going for anyone else. Zeno definitely won't start by erasing everything.
 
Orochimaru also likely has multiple sharingan with izanagi and he would likely just kill zeno first as he is a biggest threat. What we know about zeno is that he is strong bud definitely not a great fighter. He struggled to keep up with the fighters in the tournament of power. Orochimaru would have at least their speeds if not more. He would blitz zeno from the start before going for anyone else. Zeno definitely won't start by erasing everything.
 
And even if Oro created in those 10 years a slighly buffed Cell, it'd be miles away from the tier 3 in dbs.
 
PaChi2 said:
And even if Oro created in those 10 years a slighly buffed Cell, it'd be miles away from the tier 3 in dbs.
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Yes it will. He can make a clone body of Beerus, the angels Zeno, etc., amongst the others. That alone makes him both as fast and as strong as toptiers.
 
Now that I re-read this I think Orochimaru is being overhyped. He has access to all these resources, and at most he's treated as on-par with Dr.Gero. Even with nearly the same resources, Cell lost to Gohan. There's also nothing that says Orochimaru will be able to jump across literally every tier and be unbeatable, unless NLF is part of his abilities as well.

Don't see how collecting DNA to create a clone equates to the clone being as powerful.
 
Yes it will. He can make a clone body of Beerus, the angels Zeno, etc., amongst the others. That alone makes him both as fast and as strong as toptiers.

That's not how clonation works, though.
 
What do you mean it doesn't equate to being equally as powerful?That the clones disn't train? Zeno doesn't train, period, so that isn't a reason.

He gets Zeno's abilities and just wrecks everybody with that.
 
Clonating Beerus' body isnt going to pack the millions of years of training and experience, the God Ki, Hakai energy, etc.

The most you could argue for is a post-10 years of training Beerus, which is, as I said, miles away from the real thing. The point Im trying to make is: does the body have the potential to reach Beerus' level? Yes. After 10 years? Nope.
 
This is even more clear as in DB has been proved that having someone else's body doesnt instantly grant you their capabilities.

Look at Ginyu and Goku Black.

Also, I take Oro isnt allowed tier 2 access in R1?
 
"How the heck is substitution going to prevent Erasure?"

Orochimaru knows how this move works therefore he will take precautions. Moreover as seen in the show, Zeno gets surprised by anything.

"We already made it clear that this will do jack all to effect Zeno's Erasure."

Do to the fact Zeno got surprised by substitution. He will stop the move from completing. Also, I never said that the move will not work on Orochimaru.

"Assuming the DB cast didn't already collect them. And... y'know... with how well-known it is now (Being the thing the universes were fighting for as a reward for their victory), I'd be surprised if nobody was keeping an eye on it 24/7."

That's something that Bulma will do yet do to Goku and Vegeta pride. They will stop her so they can have a fight to test Orochimaru out.

"If this is the entire DB Verse against Orochimaru, wouldn't Super Shenron just destroy Orochimaru on the spot rather than grant him a wish?"

Lol.. That's out character. We never seen Shenlong counter King Piccolo's attack due to Kami being stronger than him. They are neutral in any giving situation.

"Just because you have his throne doesn't mean you gain his powers :L"

I never said anything about gaining powers. Just the title. As seen in the series, GP and angles have respect to him because of his ruling. Do you think they will obey a person who got dethrown or the new ruler? That's the powers of the Super Dragon Ball's.

"Again nothing implies that the role of Omni-King comes with the power. We know high-power jobs such as Hakaishin requires training and even the Kais undergo training. No power is simply given to you."

Again! I never said anything about him gaining powers. Just the title, "King of All." We don't know wants going to happen to GP if he will follow Zeno or Orochimaru. Unless you think Zenos will is the same as GP. Just like Black Zetsu.

"Plus Zeno's power might just be a Zeno thing. He's the one and true Omni King because... he's simply the strongest. Period. The title of Omni King and the position is a mere position placed upon him for others to revere."

What's the point of that he will just ask GP to teach him the Hakai and other abilities that he is missing. In fact, Orochimaru will tell GP to go foward in time and to the wish again. Then ask to get same powers of Zeno. Even the strongets will go cry in a corner. Zeno is just a kid. Since he was dethrow. GP and the guards will just ignored him. No more Rare Candy for Zeno.
 
PaChi2 said:
Prep wont make Oro MFTL+
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He has their cells DB logic allows people weaker to use the cells of others to get on their level and also to use their abilities, in fact not even just db logic it is basically anime and manga logic.
 
He has their cells DB logic allows people weaker to use the cells of others to get on their level and also to use their abilities, in fact not even just db logic it is basically anime and manga logic.

Cell was defeated by Gohan, whose cells he had.

Goku black was weaker than Goku's full power.

Ginyu was weaker than Goku after stealing his body.
 
PaChi2 said:
And even if Oro created in those 10 years a slighly buffed Cell, it'd be miles away from the tier 3 in dbs.
Click to expand...
In naruto you can summon clones to cut hours of training.

Orochumaru will just use clones the fight each other to gain zenkai boost.

Orochimaru in no time will have MUI and completed the hakai move(assuming we are using the manga)

He then will used all this abilities combined and have hundreads of clones using them with Perfect Susanoo Yata Mirror and the Sword of Totsuka
 
PaChi2 said:
Cell was defeated by Gohan, whose cells he had.

Goku black was weaker than Goku's full power.

Ginyu was weaker than Goku after stealing his body.
Click to expand...
Orochimaru would never fight like cell did, and orochimaru also has his own abilities and hax.

Yeah because he was using Goku's body not his own, he could never be as good as Goku in Goku's own body.

Same thing as the last.

Orochimaru is modifying his own body with his own hax being boosted on top of what they have. And fights completely differently to characters in dragonball. You act like he would step out and try a kamehameha or something.

Not to mention none of anything you said had anything to do with what I said.

And Orochimaru has everyone's abilties, not just one person's.
 
In naruto you can summon clones to cut hours of training.

Orochumaru will just use clones the fight each other to gain zenkai boost.

Orochimaru in no time will have MUI and completed the hakai move(assuming we are using the manga)

He then will used all this abilities combined and have hundreads of clones using them with Perfect Susanoo Yata Mirror and the Sword of Totsuka

I mean. After reading this....

Yes, you are overestimating Orochimaru A LOT.

The heck you master UI in 10 years.
 
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