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LordTracer

He/Him
VS Battles
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Gouketsu​

Gouketsu’s cloud split was recently recalced with the 7-A+ result being accepted, and as such, his tier should be changed to reflect that.

Gouketsu stated that there were monsters just as strong as him, which would likely mean the stronger Cadres, such as Elder Centipede and Rover, would scale to him.

Psykos estimated that only Tatsumaki, Metal Knight, King and Blast could take on Elder Centipede, and these four are some of the most powerful of the Hero Association. Genos also questioned if there were more monsters like Elder Centipede, and he didn’t even mention Gouketsu here, implying that Elder Centipede is the stronger of the two.

Rover should scale above Elder Centipede, as he withstood a Cross Fang Dragon Slayer Fist from Bang and Bomb, who were physically fortified by Fubuki at the time. On top of that, Rover was already weakened. Whirlwind Water Stream Roaring Aura Sky Ripping Fist, a weaker attack as stated by Murata, was previously able to destroy Elder Centipede’s carapace while they were un-amped.

Gyoro Gyoro​

Gyoro Gyoro should scale above Elder Centipede, as she believed that she was stronger than Tatsumaki, who was one of the heroes she believed to be capable of taking on Elder Centipede. While we all know that Gyoro Gyoro is most definitely not stronger than Tatsumaki, the fact that she thought she was would put her above Elder Centipede.

However, this should only apply to Gyoro Gyoro in her second form (the one with all the eyes, which she declared was her “true form”), and her first form would remain the same tier.

Chapter 182​

With the events of Chapter 182, the following members of the S-Class were able to damage the weakened Psykorochi/Psykojet:

Genos and Drive Knight should both get a new key for the Promoted Rook, which was able to clash evenly with Psykos.

There are also some P&A additions here:

Psykorochi

Drive Knight

Tatsumaki

Dragon Level Threats​

Baseline Dragon levels are scaled above Hundred-Eyes Octopus, a Low 7-B+ Demon level. But there’s the problem... HEO’s calc isn’t Low 7-B+. It’s extremely close though. HEO’s calc is 3.3 megatons, and baseline Low 7-B+ is 3.65 megatons. That’s only a 1.1x difference. So Dragon levels won’t lose their + rating, but quite a few will lose the ‘At least.’

Ten Second Genos​

Ten Second Genos is currently ‘At least High 6-B+, likely 6-A,’ but the High 6-B+ is unfounded. He does backscale from Psykorochi, but he doesn’t backscale so much that he’d go down to High 6-B+.

He should simply backscale to 6-A+.

Orochi​

Orochi should be split into two keys. One for his first form and another for his third form (which is the one with the High 6-C feat).

Murata stated that if Boros’ generals (Geryuganshoop, Melzalgald and Groribas) were to fight Orochi, they would have next to no chance of winning. During the last thread, this statement was accepted as something that can be used, which means First Form Orochi would be getting a ‘possibly 6-C’ due to scaling above Geryuganshoop. His speed will also scale, but that will be brought up in the next section.

Top Tier Speed Scaling​

Psykorochi’s beam speed was calculated and approved at Massively Hypersonic+, Mach 7,278 to be exact. As such, 10 Second Genos and Psykorochi herself would scale to this. Tatsumaki would scale above this to baseline Sub-Relativistic(which is only 1.2x away from the value of the calc), as she was consistently able to dodge several of Psykorochi’s blasts at the same time, and she did so casually and while not completely focused on her. She was also able to completely escape Psykos’ sight and get inside of her before she could react.

But this isn’t all they’d scale to.

As the last section mentioned, Geryuganshoop and Boros’ other generals stand almost no chance against Orochi. Geryuganshoop recently got this calc, which puts his speed at ‘possibly Relativistic.’ First Form Orochi should scale to this, as should Third Form Orochi, Psykorochi, Genos and Tatsumaki.

First Form Orochi should also go down from Massively Hypersonic+ to ‘At least Massively Hypersonic,’ as the MHS+rating is baseless and his justification is scaling to Garou.

This should also scale to Boros, but @Emirp sumitpo has his own revision on Boros planned and he requested that I leave him out of the revision.

Tatsumaki​

Very minor revision, but Tatsumaki should have an ‘At least’ in her AP rating. The Attack Potency page describes the qualifications for an ‘At least’ as: Should be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.

Tatsumaki, while injured, effortlessly stomped Psykorochi, destroying Orochi on the cellular level with Drive Knight even implying she could’ve been off the mark and still won.

That seems like enough for her to have an ‘At least.’

Final Conclusions​

This sandbox shows the new ratings of everyone that will be affected by this revision.

Would you believe if I told you this started as just being about Gouketsu and Chapter 182?
 
Just to throw it in here, but does anyone scale to the ninjas? Except Saitama, MB Boros and presumably AG
 
Gonna link this here calc because it's relevant and we're still hunting for some input: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...flects_many_Psykorochi_beams_at_the_same_time.

Everyone who scales to Psykos will scale to this feat, so depending on the end chosen it may alter their ratings.

I should step in for my boy Pluton, he should still be "At least Low 7-B, likely higher", since he can do 6-C damage over an unknown period of time. Chances are he's 7-B or 7-A with a single breath attack and we don't know what else he has in his arsenal.
 
Pluton’s 6-C calc wasn’t ever actually accepted, that’s why I got rid of his ‘far higher.’
 
I also just realized that I completely forgot Gale Wind and Hellfire Flame lmao. They would go down to Low 7-B+ like the other baseline Dragons.
 
We might have a new contender for strongest threat level dragon owo. (Who is non-canon afaik)
 
I agree with all this, but were did High 7-A come from? Shouldn't everyone scaling to Gouketsu get only 7-A+? The only person I could see getting High 7-A from Goukestu is base form Orochi since he up scales a lot.
 
I agree with all this, but were did High 7-A come from? Shouldn't everyone scaling to Gouketsu get only 7-A+? The only person I could see getting High 7-A from Goukestu is base form Orochi since he up scales a lot.
I think it's because they all upscale from Gouketsu.
 
I agree with all this, but were did High 7-A come from? Shouldn't everyone scaling to Gouketsu get only 7-A+? The only person I could see getting High 7-A from Goukestu is base form Orochi since he up scales a lot.
It's upscaling Gyoro Gyoro from Elder Centipede (who would scale to Gouketsu), and upscaling Psykos further from that. Personally, I think Gyoro Gyoro is overhyping himself here- I might put Psykos on par with the likes of Elder Centipede and Gouketsu, but not above them.
Flashy Flash upscales, but he already has his own speed rating.
 
I agree with all this, but were did High 7-A come from? Shouldn't everyone scaling to Gouketsu get only 7-A+? The only person I could see getting High 7-A from Goukestu is base form Orochi since he up scales a lot.
Gouketsu’s calc is only 1.4x away from baseline High 7-A, so those stronger than him are allowed to upscale. And based on Genos’ statement, he doesn’t think anyone is even comparable to Elder Centipede (despite having seen and fought Gouketsu by now), so he should upscale quite a bit.
 
Gouketsu’s calc is only 1.4x away from baseline High 7-A, so those stronger than him are allowed to upscale. And based on Genos’ statement, he doesn’t think anyone is even comparable to Elder Centipede, so he should upscale quite a bit.
I think we're stretching it a little too much with upscaling to High 7-A since it was already a stretch trying to scale Goukestu to anybody else. I think just sticking with 7-A+ is the best way to go.
 
I think we're stretching it a little too much with upscaling to High 7-A since it was already a stretch trying to scale Goukestu to anybody else. I think just sticking with 7-A+ is the best way to go.
This is pretty much my opinion, since I think Gyoro Gyoro is overhyping himself against Tatsumaki and maybe believes that he can win with the right matchup or skill-set as opposed to superior AP (I feel this is the case since Gyoro Gyoro arranged all the other cadre fights based on ideal style match-ups, not AP differences).
 
Also, I think Metal Knight's tier should just be 7-A, possibly higher, since he has at least 100 drones that are all 2 megatons individual with one missile barrage. Is it calc stacking to multiply the results of his High 7-C missiles by the number of drones he is confirmed to have?
 
I think we're stretching it a little too much with upscaling to High 7-A since it was already a stretch trying to scale Goukestu to anybody else. I think just sticking with 7-A+ is the best way to go.
This is pretty much my opinion, since I think Gyoro Gyoro is overhyping himself against Tatsumaki and maybe believes that he can win with the right matchup or skill-set as opposed to superior AP (I feel this is the case since Gyoro Gyoro arranged all the other cadre fights based on ideal style match-ups, not AP differences).
Oh, people disagreed. I'll get the popcorn.

Jokes aside, I can understand where you're coming from.
 
I disagree with some of the S-Class being straight up High 7-A, like Bang for instance, as it's very much implied he is weaker, so he should be 7-A+
 
I think we're stretching it a little too much with upscaling to High 7-A since it was already a stretch trying to scale Goukestu to anybody else. I think just sticking with 7-A+ is the best way to go.
Except Genos is pretty clearly saying Elder Centipede > all previous monsters he’s faced, since he’s questioning if any monster is like him. So according to Genos, Elder Centipede is superior to Gouketsu.
This is pretty much my opinion, since I think Gyoro Gyoro is overhyping himself against Tatsumaki and maybe believes that he can win with the right matchup or skill-set as opposed to superior AP (I feel this is the case since Gyoro Gyoro arranged all the other cadre fights based on ideal style match-ups, not AP differences).
I disagree because Gyoro Gyoro never stated anything like that when she went up against Tatsumaki. She said “What’s wrong, Tornado? Never met an esper stronger than yourself?” So it’s not a matter of matchup, and not skill, it’s strength.
 
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Why should Tatsumaki get the "at least" rating? She beat someone who barely scales above baseline High 6-A.
 
I disagree with some of the S-Class being straight up High 7-A, like Bang for instance, as it's very much implied he is weaker, so he should be 7-A+
None of them are straight up High 7-A. They’re all ‘likely High 7-A.’

Also Bang scales above Darkshine, on Darkshine’s own admission, who badly damaged Psykojet, which would then make him High 7-A.
Why should Tatsumaki get the "at least" rating? She beat someone who barely scales above baseline High 6-A.
Based on the qualifications for an ‘At least’ directly on the Attack Potency page, she qualifies. I already explained this in the OP.
 
Are y’all not reading the explanation-

Posted directly from the Attack Potency page: Should be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.

She effortlessly annihilated Psykorochi once she could fully focus on her, and caused damage on the cellular level, with Drive Knight implying she could’ve still won while being off the mark. That sounds like a lower cap to me.
 
Beating someone who barely scales above baseline isn't qualified for "at least" rating. The gap between baseline and the highest end of High 6-A AP is ~6674 times.
 
Beating someone who barely scales above baseline isn't qualified for "at least" rating. The gap between baseline and the highest end of High 6-A AP is ~6674 times.
Read what the actual Attack Potency page says, please.
 
Beating someone who barely scales above baseline isn't qualified for "at least" rating. The gap between baseline and the highest end of High 6-A AP is ~6674 times.
There are plenty of characters who get at least despite being not that much above baseline, I'm pretty sure
 
Or you just need to prove that Tatsumaki can be 1000-2000 times stronger than Psykorochi's feat and she can get the "at least rating". All we know is she is stronger than the fusion and that's all.
 
That is not a requirement for an ‘At least’ rating, so no, I don’t need to do that.
 
There are plenty of characters who get at least despite being not that much above baseline, I'm pretty sure
I mean I can say the same. There are plenty of characters who don't get the at least despite having met the requirements same as Tatsumaki?
 
I agree with everything here as well. Hoping a calc member can accept the deflagration end of the psykos calc.
 
Except Genos is pretty clearly saying Elder Centipede > all previous monsters he’s faced, since he’s questioning if any monster is like him. So according to Genos, Elder Centipede is superior to Gouketsu.
No, Genos is questioning if they're more monsters like EC not that EC is stronger than all the other monsters that he's faced. He never directly stated that EC is the strongest monster he's faced. EC's statement along with Gouketsu's only help to give EC a possibly 7-A+ for being comparable to if not slightly stronger than Gouketsu. I see no reason for him to up scale that much.
 
Yeah, waiting for the inevitable random staff member to come in and deny absolutely everything here because everything is an outlier
 
No, Genos is questioning if they're more monsters like EC not that EC is stronger than all the other monsters that he's faced. He never directly stated that EC is the strongest monster he's faced. EC's statement along with Gouketsu's only help to give EC a possibly 7-A+ for being comparable to if not slightly stronger than Gouketsu. I see no reason for him to up scale that much.
Yes, he’s questioning if there’s more like him because he hasn’t ever seen a monster like EC. That means Gouketsu isn’t like EC according to Genos. And EC literally is getting a ‘likely High 7-A,’ he isn’t fully scaling, so I dunno why you’re bringing that up when it’s what’s being proposed. Also it’s a 1.4x difference, that isn’t that much, you’re acting like I’m saying he’s 2x stronger or something.
 
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