-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
OPM Dragon level threats downgrade
- Thread starter Qawsedf234
- Start date
- Status
- 63,529
- 8,507
That was fixed on a recent thread yeah
- 20,611
- 17,608
- Thread starter
- #85
If its allowed its probably fine to scale them toe Low 7-B+ considering the 11% gap between the feat and the rating.
- 12,562
- 2,518
- 4,381
- 1,314
If Amai Mask scales, I don't see why Atomic wouldn't too.
- 4,381
- 1,314
Physically? Sure. In terms of overall offensive capability I disagree.
- 175
- 39
Sweet Mask has better durability, endurance, and a Regenerationn ability, but if you're comparing raw feats, his attack power is worse. His only win against a Demon-level monster in the entire story and auxiliary materials has been Do-S/Goddess Glasses; his feats of fending off Black Sperm are impressive, but it doesn't mean much in terms of attack power given that G4 Genos was able to do the same thing with no arms for a short time. He's also self-admitted to never having beaten a Dragon-level threat in a 1v1, and yet seemed perfectly content with provoking fights with heroes who CAN beat them like Metal Bat & Flashy Flash.
Atomic casually one-shotted Rhino Wrestler & G5's outer body (both of whom scale above Do-S), has an attack that can fully erase Black Sperm clones, was deployed alongside Tatsumaki in an audiobook to face a Dragon-level threat, and has a myriad of statements attesting to his power. His attack speed is also way better.
His durability and other aspects aside, his offensive ability is most definitely depicted as being superior.
Atomic casually one-shotted Rhino Wrestler & G5's outer body (both of whom scale above Do-S), has an attack that can fully erase Black Sperm clones, was deployed alongside Tatsumaki in an audiobook to face a Dragon-level threat, and has a myriad of statements attesting to his power. His attack speed is also way better.
His durability and other aspects aside, his offensive ability is most definitely depicted as being superior.
- 22,461
- 18,689
No he wasn't. Genos was completely stomped aside from destroying a larger cell cluster, which is only because BS is a glass cannon, and Atomic Samurai was overpowered physically, only managing to hold him at bay with his sword. Unlike them, Sweet Mask's strength was directly stated to be equal to BS, who'd one-shot Bomb a few minutes earlier.
Sweet Mask also casually slaughtered that squad, whose power suits could contend with Iaian and Atomic Samurai's other apprentices. So that's probably as impressive as killing Rhino Wrestler.
The attack that erases the clones is done by repeated slashes at super-high speed, and is directly because he's a glass cannon. It shouldn't mean he's stronger than Sweet Mask, and likely doesn't given that the same blows that heavily injured Atomic Samurai only did minimal damage to him.
Sweet Mask also casually slaughtered that squad, whose power suits could contend with Iaian and Atomic Samurai's other apprentices. So that's probably as impressive as killing Rhino Wrestler.
The attack that erases the clones is done by repeated slashes at super-high speed, and is directly because he's a glass cannon. It shouldn't mean he's stronger than Sweet Mask, and likely doesn't given that the same blows that heavily injured Atomic Samurai only did minimal damage to him.
- 4,381
- 1,314
What about Homeless Emperor? His spheres took Bang out for a decent amount of time.
- 4,381
- 1,314
Also Evil Natural Water
- 4,381
- 1,314
Okay? Evil Natural Water can still hurt Sweet Mask.
- 175
- 39
@ByAsura
Some of your points are downright wrong:
- Bomb getting one-shotted by Black Sperm is widely regarded as an anti-feat so I'm not sure why it's relevant. That scene, like Bomb getting speared through the leg by Senior Centipede, also happened before Murata's statements about Bomb & his better solo feats that came in the manga.
- The pages at the end of the chapter and onto the following one actually do show G4 Genos (briefly) fending off Black Sperm with only his legs.See here. It's easy to miss because it's happening while Child Emperor narrates.
- Sweet Mask was not stated as being equal to Black Sperm - Atomic watched them fighting and said that they were "on par" but also questioned how long he could hold up. And everyone Black Sperm fought sans Garou he did while being completely casual, so it's dubious as to how much that can even be used.
And anyway, the point that's being made is that Atomic's AP should be superior to Sweet Mask's. Already said that his other aspects are generally weaker, but AP is generally the deciding factor for the character's listed tier, is it not?
Some of your points are downright wrong:
- Bomb getting one-shotted by Black Sperm is widely regarded as an anti-feat so I'm not sure why it's relevant. That scene, like Bomb getting speared through the leg by Senior Centipede, also happened before Murata's statements about Bomb & his better solo feats that came in the manga.
- The pages at the end of the chapter and onto the following one actually do show G4 Genos (briefly) fending off Black Sperm with only his legs.See here. It's easy to miss because it's happening while Child Emperor narrates.
- Sweet Mask was not stated as being equal to Black Sperm - Atomic watched them fighting and said that they were "on par" but also questioned how long he could hold up. And everyone Black Sperm fought sans Garou he did while being completely casual, so it's dubious as to how much that can even be used.
And anyway, the point that's being made is that Atomic's AP should be superior to Sweet Mask's. Already said that his other aspects are generally weaker, but AP is generally the deciding factor for the character's listed tier, is it not?
- 22,461
- 18,689
By whom? You? Because nobody here does, especially since that's a larger cluster. Also, no, he fought on par with Rover previously and had multiple accolades placing him on a similar level to Bang. Senior Centipede was in one chapter of the webcomic where he also died and never interacted with Bomb on any occasion, so your anti-feat doesn't apply in this case.
All we see him do is kick him once. In every other scene, he's stoping Genos with complete and total ease. If anything, this is the anti-feat given that he badly injured a guy who scales above pre-Darkshine half-monster Garou.
On par means equal, and he was talking about their strength. Atomic Samurai and Bomb certainly aren't his equals. He also tanked a hit from a larger version of BS than the one that knocked out Bomb.
Your arguments are based on pretty much nothing. We have no evidence to suggest he's more powerful. I will say he's better at cutting and faster, which is why his repeat attacks can obliterate the clones of Black Sperm.
All we see him do is kick him once. In every other scene, he's stoping Genos with complete and total ease. If anything, this is the anti-feat given that he badly injured a guy who scales above pre-Darkshine half-monster Garou.
On par means equal, and he was talking about their strength. Atomic Samurai and Bomb certainly aren't his equals. He also tanked a hit from a larger version of BS than the one that knocked out Bomb.
Your arguments are based on pretty much nothing. We have no evidence to suggest he's more powerful. I will say he's better at cutting and faster, which is why his repeat attacks can obliterate the clones of Black Sperm.
- 20,611
- 17,608
- Thread starter
- #106
Here's my thing about BS. Its later confirmed by Sweet Mask himself that he's never defeated a Dragon level threat by himself. Indicating that he's always had help in some fashion if he's beat one before. We also rate another enemy very similar to BS, Melzalgald, as having Unknown durability since he gets damaged by weaker stuff consistently.
I think we should do the same thing with BS honestly. His durability until he becomes Golden Sperm is non-existent. Atomic Samurai, Sweet Mask, Genos, Bomb, and Bang have all casually killed large clone bodies only to be bodied by his physicals in some fashion. His AP should stay 7-B, but I don't think he should have 7-B durability.
ENW scaling is fine though. CE nearly beating it is more hax related than strength related.
I think we should do the same thing with BS honestly. His durability until he becomes Golden Sperm is non-existent. Atomic Samurai, Sweet Mask, Genos, Bomb, and Bang have all casually killed large clone bodies only to be bodied by his physicals in some fashion. His AP should stay 7-B, but I don't think he should have 7-B durability.
ENW scaling is fine though. CE nearly beating it is more hax related than strength related.
- 175
- 39
I'll agree to disagree there. I think there's a mountain of evidence in favor of AS scaling up.
I also think the concept of Sweet Mask being superior to Bang or Bomb is laughable, and am surprised you believe such a thing.
I also think the concept of Sweet Mask being superior to Bang or Bomb is laughable, and am surprised you believe such a thing.
- 20,611
- 17,608
- Thread starter
- #109
AS should be "At least Low 7-B+" if nothing else.
- 4,381
- 1,314
ENW doesn't have striking strength.Kin201 said:
- 22,461
- 18,689
There's no evidence.Chaingunfighter1 said:
Your opinions aren't facts. Sweet Mask has more evidence for being stronger than Bang than he has against. The only reason he's not S Class is because he doesn't want to be.
That was confirmed in chapter 121. The only situations he's ever fought a Dragon level to our knowledge is during the Monster Asociation arc, where he unsuccessfully fought BS, ENW and Garou's many forms, all of whom were beaten by someone else. Sweet Mask may be on the level of an S-Class, but he's also an A-Class, so they send him against Demon level opponents, and the reason he raided the Monster Asociation is because he barged in. Even against that Dragon level clown he fought, Sweet Mask believed there was a chance of victory if he didn't transform.Qawsedf234 said:
No, Sweet Mask is the only one who hasn't been bodied by his attacks. Unlike Bomb, Genos and Atomic Samurai, he can actually tank and counter BS' hits with minimal damage.
I agree, but Sweet Mask still scales.
- 175
- 39
There's plenty of evidence.
Sweet Mask has lackluster AP feats when compared to Bang, that's a straight up fact. He has endurance that's second only to Zombieman among the S-Class and his durability is quite high, but being able to do damage to Black Sperm's regular forms is something that many other characters have demonstrated. Bang when serious one-shots a transformed Fuhrer Ugly, while even base Fuhrer Ugly is able to do some damage to Sweet Mask as seen in the manga.
Sweet Mask also says "I've done all I could on my human form" two panels after he says there's still a chance of victory, which implies he needs to transform to win.
Like, the contention has never been that Sweet Mask isn't more resilient than the bulk of those characters - he obviously is. But the actual evidence that he's more powerful? It isn't there.
Sweet Mask has lackluster AP feats when compared to Bang, that's a straight up fact. He has endurance that's second only to Zombieman among the S-Class and his durability is quite high, but being able to do damage to Black Sperm's regular forms is something that many other characters have demonstrated. Bang when serious one-shots a transformed Fuhrer Ugly, while even base Fuhrer Ugly is able to do some damage to Sweet Mask as seen in the manga.
Sweet Mask also says "I've done all I could on my human form" two panels after he says there's still a chance of victory, which implies he needs to transform to win.
Like, the contention has never been that Sweet Mask isn't more resilient than the bulk of those characters - he obviously is. But the actual evidence that he's more powerful? It isn't there.
- 22,461
- 18,689
Because he has so few feats to begin with, let alone ones on that level. He doesn't just harm BS, he tanks his attacks, something neither of Bang nor Atomic Samurai are capable of. Fuhrer did nothing to Sweet Mask, he only remarked that he was fast, but was completely unharmed by his attacks despite being a stationary target.
No, he says there's still a chance of victory at the current level, but the monster will keep rampaging so he needs to transform.
It is there, you just seem to ignore it.
No, he says there's still a chance of victory at the current level, but the monster will keep rampaging so he needs to transform.
It is there, you just seem to ignore it.
- 20,611
- 17,608
- Thread starter
- #117
I'm with chaingun in regards to the webcomic quote. Mask's original plan was for the monster to kill the crowd then transform when no one was looking. He even notes he can't do anything more in his human form. The "current" level is just talking about his current Dragon level stage, rather than a his hypothetical higher stage if everyone in the world views his rampage (which is what his plan is in the first place).
I'm good with 7-B Sweet Mask and Low 7-B+ AS, just not 7-B durability BS.
I'm good with 7-B Sweet Mask and Low 7-B+ AS, just not 7-B durability BS.
- 4,381
- 1,314
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:TataHakai/One_Punch_Man:_BeefCake_Creates_a_Crater
the 7-B end of Beefcake's calc looks to be vaporization which I don't think the feat actually was. So I think he'll just end up as Low 7-B+ unless someone redoes the calc.
the 7-B end of Beefcake's calc looks to be vaporization which I don't think the feat actually was. So I think he'll just end up as Low 7-B+ unless someone redoes the calc.
- Status
